Oh... now I understand...
...english is just a problematic language. How come you (singular) is the same word as you (plural)? We should all talk spanish... we wouldn't have had that problem.
Sorry... misunderstanding.
Yes, that would explain it. I don't think it's a problem unique to English, though -- doesn't 'vous' mean either a group or a single person in French?
(Actually, how does it work in Spanish? I'm wondering about the etymologically of the southern slang tern 'yall', which would actually seem to solve this problem - which I, who grew up and very rarely interacted with Spanish speakers, never thought of it as a problem.)
Ok... it was a mistake to use that word.
For me, it's much more restrictive than what you think. Not everyone that doesn't agree is a fanatic. Fanatic behavior is disagreeing without a reason. Saying: WC1 didn't have that much detail... and that's it. I mean, it's obvious why WC1 didn't have that much detail... unless the reference is to WC1's concept art, not ingame art. Saying that the ship is supposed to look as it did in WC1 is nonsense... almost never games can recreate the full detail of the concept behind ingame art, and all I was saying is that, if we don't have access to that concept art, we may very well create it ourselves - just keep the spirit of ingame art pieces.
Now... I do think the caernaven is ugly. But, unless you're a texturing wiz, not much can be done with such a poor model.
Well, good example. Now, if you'd posted that to the WCU boards you'd get six replies saying this means you should do whatever you want to these ships (and then maybe one guy who wants to use this as an excuse to bring up why I should be punched in the nose - and incidentally, there are some good reasons to punch me in the nose... but y'all haven't figured them out yet).
If you posted it here we'd at least help you find some sources. We'd tell you there's a high res Hornet in the Kilrathi Saga intro and a high res Dralthi on the Wing Commander I box... we'd scan blueprints and Claw Marks pages... and we'd take a bunch of Wing Commander Academy screengrabs of Scimitars and Salthi. There's a painting of a Salthi on the SNES SM box... and paintings of Ventures and drawings of Rapiers in the old Nintendo Power promotional stuff. Oh, and there's some extra line drawings in an ol CGW. We could also find you the insignae and the flags that appear as little dots in the game sprites... and, of course, the higher resolution side views of the Confed fighters. And if you were rendering the Tiger's Claw... hoo-boy, there's a lot of source pictures we'd be able to dig up. We could find you all the sources that are available, so you could know what needs to be imagined and what already exists. If it were a serious, serious question we'd try and contact the original artists.
Regarding the frigate, I've seen the original Wing Commander IV textures, and they're beautiful. Little rivets and lines and all sorts of tiny ship details they took home from visiting the USS Lexington. Unfortunately, when reduced hundreds and hundreds of percent to the in-game model, it looks like a spotted dotted mess.
The guys responsible for the models have spoke about this - were you asking us instead of discussing it in your private cave, we could quote them. And we could show you screen captures from the high res WCIV movies off the DVD, which give a better idea of what the intent was. We could scan the concept art from the official guides and grab screenshots from the WC3 Behind the Screens CD, so you'd have an idea of what the original intention behind the capital ships was. Heck, the naval buffs among us could probably get you detailed pictures of the same American carrier upon which all the WC4 textures are based, if you were so interested.
That's bad news to chuck... he's the one following that issue. And he's done a lot of work towards that end.
I'll see if I can convice him to check with you or Chris.
Isn't Chuck the guy who angrily left the community forever because we told him Kilrathi wore clothes?
Because, probably not the best continuity editor you could choose.
(Edit: yes, he is. Check our archives for posts by dan_w.)
Yes... forget about those mails. If that happens again, we really have to talk to spirit about that behavior. It's uncool. It's damaging to the project.
As you say, I need to develop a thicker skin. I hardly ever get angry about something... but I do tend to argue strongly about subjects, and it may seem as if I was angry.
That's fair, but it's still going on. Your board doesn't seem as advanced as ours, so I can't link to the specific post... but Spiritplumber's second one in this thread:
http://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5724
(The first one, incidentally, was what started this particular stupid argument. You all got so angry because Spirit told you to that you didn't even bother to read the post you were replying to - Brad wasn't saying the game was cancelled, he was saying 'yes' to the question 'is it still being developed?'. Either Spirit is just stupid or he was specifically trying to get you into a fight with us.)
Well since you're just ignoring what I say, I'll rephrase my comments in a vein attempt to be heard.
Whoever taught you that this was an effective rhetorical trick was lying. It doesn't work in practice, everyone sees straight through it every single time.
I agree the image is currently below standard and deserves critique, but there is a distinction between harsh criticism and constructive criticism. Whilst you did put forth a tip (the flipping of the Concordia) it was buried in a tirade on how crap the image was whilst trying to show how crap you think the WCU development process is (the same process that spawned VegaStrike and PR which make up the bulk of PGG, just to give you some context). Perhaps if you were less intent on being so negative, people would not react angrily. After all, surely we all want the same thing, the continuation of WC in the best possible way, right? WCU may be far from perfect, but every iteration will bring it closer to WC and it's very early days yet. Patience and positive critique will get you a lot further than rants and distain.
You should read the rest of this thread: the community isn't changing to adapt to a special fan project. You can either get used to it and not take offense and become great like Standoff and Saga... or you can go back to your private hole and make a shitty game. We're not going to change how we act because it might
offend you, but we're happy to use our abilities to help you.
There is a great irony amongst all this conflict. I feel WCU would benefit greatly from the amazing canon insight these boards carry. And that members of the board would relish the game WCU aspires to be. I hope one day that things blow over between the main personalties involved and everybody benefits from a game made by the community for the community, improved by the community.
We're not going to go to your message board and fix your game. With the exception of Spirit, who has legitimately gotten himself banned, you are all welcome to come here for help. As the man said, 'you can have no conflict without being yourselves the aggressors. '
Last thing: I never said I was a pro. Hey, I'm getting paid for writing articles. For me, a computer is a better typewriter where you can also play games... And it's really sorry, to use an amateurs work as proof for bad work or low quality in the WCU project. Because even if this first picture had been my final version, nobody of the guys who decide about it has said that they wanna take it...
You're again making something that has nothing to do with you into a personal attack... which is additionally ironic, as this is a thread about not doing that. You didn't forget to flip the carrier - whoever put it in the game did. You've also touched on two other arguments that just plain don't work in the face of this type of criticism: I'm just an amateur and I'm doing this for free.
Half the active threads on the WCU Sourceforge forums are about what horrible people we are, most of the rest are internet tough guys coming to break LOAF's nose. If we don't have this discussion here, then people will only get one side of the story.
Yup, up until now Spirit has had a pretty cavalier attitude about this - his signature and all - solely on the basis that we're not interested in talking about the subject. And you know, he was right... because look what happens when we do? We're clearly establishing that we're not the evil conspiracy seeking to ban a poor little girl from our message board that he'd like you think we were without discussion.
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" But the reason it needed to be updated to a newer model(s) in the first place is because the original model is outdated. The new rapier is bigger, better armed, better shielded(within context, its comes out the same as ten years ago, because weapons have also improved) etc. But while the model was changed in this way, the manufactuerer wasn't going to release something fugly, but rather something sleek and sexy looking. See what I'm saying?
