Militia Paradigms?

Bandit LOAF said:
My role here is simply to assist the project through *my* area of experise - Wing Commander continuity. I do not suggest that everything (or anything) I say should automatically be incorporated somehow -- I'm just a voice in the crowd whose hoping to offer the minor element he knows best to the development (which is my understanding of how open source software works -- everybodies ideas are there and enough good ones mix together to make something cool).
(...)
It is certainly *not* a flame war... just the proper use of this message board.
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My point exactly. I do think that this thread was doing a good job at debating the subject and that your comments/suggestions might have help improve the game. I just wanted to remind people that although it is the proper use of the board to express their opinions and debate, they need not to forget about respect for the people who are working really hard trying to make the best WC experience they can for the fans.

BradMick said:
i'll just go back to modeling, and keep my mouth shut or something. no matter what i say, it makes no difference.
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Please don't stop making comments and/or debating on desing choices. I was only reacting to Dyret's post who seems to think that it's OK to start bitching about the project's leaders design decision if it does not fits our own opinion.

While commenting and debating is good, bitching is wrong. I have often tried to have my fan project's teammates change their opinions about design choices, sometimes I convinced them, sometimes not. Either way I didn't change my mind about these issues, but one's gotta respect the final choice once it's made.
 
Lots of good points made here... I don't think it degenerated into a flamewar...merely an exchange of thoughts.
*dons asbestos suit anyhow*
I think we're going to end up making it so that militia paradigms/drayman never spawn on their own... However, if you take a cargo mission to an uninhabited system owned by the militia (I think pender's star is one) we'll try not to give that mission, but if it somehow happens then we'll make it to a militia drayman stationed out there (to monitor)
this sound fair enough?
 
Oh, and BTW, this thread has given some results, so the comments and debates wasn't in vain... it now seems to be common consensus that the Drayman is a space truck, and as MamiyaOtaru now agreed to change the Militia Paradigm for a Drayman, it's already closer to the original... and makes more sense. So while it's not perfectly exactly the same than the original, it's still better than having the Militia fly Paradigms, and it respects the design restrictions that MamiyaOtaru decribed :
MamiyaOtaru said:
We didn't give militia capships as part of some effort to ridicule canon, there simply needs to be a place to dock when a cargo mission is generated for the militia faction (which is the only time one is seen). Having one is a necessity. But no reason it couldn't be a Drayman.
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So please people, cheer up ! :) You can still make things better by posting your comments and debating.
 
This sound fair enough?
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Sure does to me.
With my patch they're all draymen I think, if not they're still 50/50.

With the WCU thingy they have an equal chance of being draymen or corvettes, and VERY occasionally a paradigm will show up, but only as a fixture in the system (it shows up as a nav point, as in it's acting as a temporary base -- confed carriers also do this).
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Why not go ahead and put militia draymans in the patch? The patch isn't part of the remake, people don't have to get it if they don't want to.
 
Pete: thanks.

LOAF: I see what you mean about your area of expertise. As always, your comments are welcome, and I am sorry if some of your ideas can't be implemented. We do listen to them though.

Brad: same for you. I know why you feel strongly about things, I played the original back in the day the same as you did :)

So yeah, comments are welcome and if suggestions have merit we try to implement them. If the cost (in time) of doing so is prohibitive or if it is impossible due to the current state of the engine, please don't take it personally or interpret it as fanboys run amok.

I once said the beauty of an open source engine is that we don't have to make compromises. Where things are really important, changes have been made and always will. In vanilla Vegastrike, shields, afterburners, jump fuel and a host of other things do not function as they do in Privateer and the Remake. We were able to make those changes.

Similarly, widespread changes could be made to rectify every tiny detail that is different, but sometimes we choose to compromise instead due to the minimal gain from and the large amount of time necessary to make a change. This leads right back to the benefits of open source though; if someone else takes the time to make a change, it can be incorporated.

In short, no compromises have to be made, but occasionally we do anyway based on a cost/benefit analysis. If you arrive at a different conclusion with your cost/benefit analysis, go ahead and help us out :)
 
Actually I think it does make alot of sense for the Militia to have Draymonds.

Now before LOAF gets irritated with me, it would make sense since I bet the militia have search and rescue duties along with their other jobs. It would be easy to refit Draymonds for such duties, with rescue and salvage gear, places to put rescued people ect. ect. I mean look at the type of rescue gear good sized firedepartments have on hand, and the stuff at airports, they would have that sort of gear.

In larger, busier more popular systems the militia might have Caernavens to do the job, primarily because they would need more space for recovering people because of the potential for larger diasters.


Look at todays municipalities and their fireboats which tend to be quite large, most of New York Harbors fireboats are about 130 feet long or so.

On the flip side, they wouldnt be packin torpedo launchers and stuff, since they are not ment for combat, but as support vessels.
 
Fighter-bombers and shuttles are the established standard for SAR missions -- not heavily armed destroyers.
 
Police forces avail themselves or whatever the situation calls for, budget restrictions notwithstanding. One could say "policemen don't drive buses or trucks", and sound right; but in fact they do sometimes. In big bust operations, police are known to send in buses to transport suspects, and trucks to truck the truckloads of illegal or stolen stuff. At one time, people would have said "police don't fly helicopters", but in LA they do, I remember. And the water cannon trucks they use in crowd control situations are part-Firemen trucks, part-armored carriers. And in countries facing guerrilla warfare, the military will often give or loan military hardware to police forces for specific purposes. In fact, what is rare to see, in any police force, are vehicles specifically designed and manufactured for their exclusive use. Most police forces around the world use modified civilian vehicles. I'd say, therefore, that anything the militias fly, to be grounded on the real world, should be available in the open market; except for vehicles of military origin.
 
Thing is, in a place where the average crook owns an armored car, the police would equip themselves likewise and then a bit better -- in Gemini, where you can buy a Talon (which is not a bad little fighter to fly, btw) for basically the price of a fancy meal, the militia would be similarly (Talon) or better (Gladius) equipped. It would also be expedient for them to own a capship...

I came up with basically a mini-paradigm.
 
Police forces avail themselves or whatever the situation calls for, budget restrictions notwithstanding. One could say "policemen don't drive buses or trucks", and sound right; but in fact they do sometimes.
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I think I can pretty reasonably claim that policemen do not drive AEGIS destroyers.

There is a huge rift between petty conflict in Gemini and the real conflict with the Kilrathi.
 
Let's try to frame the problem in a different way...


GIVEN that the Militia faction *needs* at least one capship:
What capship should they use that makes the most sense canon-wise?
 
I don't see that as a given, but I would say that if you needed the militia to have a SAR craft (from the ships seen in Privateer), it would either be a Galaxy or a Broadsword.
 
Question: If the militia have a SAR craft, wouldn't they also need someplace for it to go? For example, a hospital ship or something?
 
I think it's important to remember that the Militia being comparable to the police, the Militia units don't need mobile bases of operations such as carriers and hospital ships (as opposed to the naval forces who have to be mobile). The Militia units are bound to planet bases. So I don't see why they would need a carrier or anything... maybe an occasional drayman to ferry some prisoners or seized illegal cargo, but nothing more than that.
 
given the rate that militia ships are blown sky-high and their general useless-ness against massed talons or kilrathi, is it too much to apply logic and suppose that just maybe the militia would prefer to fly a paradigm or other capship if they could get their hands on one? No-one likes to die, even if they have to break canon.
 
AHA. The mention of a hospital ship clued me in. There are two factions that would likely have such ships associated to them: Militia and Confed. Especially in backwater systems, sometimes the "Space Ambulance" Tarsus/Galaxy isn't effective enough because it isn't BIG enough. That I think is the best use for the Drayman in the Militia...and it would definitely need supplies on occasion. Perhaps it went to an uninhabited system on a call for aid, for example after some mass battle? There are reasons that a large hospital ship would be needed, even by local governments. They wouldn't be the most COMMON things, but it wouldn't be too alien to have one or two around.
 
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