Maj.Striker
Swabbie
Banned
Bandit LOAF said:
Say what you will...but if I were a police officer and was offered a guided missile cruiser, I definitely take it!
Militia Paradigms?
- Thread starter JKeefe
- Start date
Swabbie
Say what you will...but if I were a police officer and was offered a guided missile cruiser, I definitely take it!
U
Unregistered
Guest
then maybe the release should be held off until such a point as all the little things which need to be fixed, are fixed. public clamoring be damned....i'd focus on getting it right. but, thats just me.
and i agree with LOAF. surely it has to be that simple. if there are no bases, tell the random mission generator not to call on those systems.
Brad Mick
and i agree with LOAF. surely it has to be that simple. if there are no bases, tell the random mission generator not to call on those systems.
Brad Mick
New faction? Where can I find it? What sector, what quad, what system?
About the Retros, maybe you could give them a suicide tech, so that when there ships are badly damaged, they ram an enemy, doing massive damage (Kamikaze style...). Also, if they have draymans, they might launch a suicide Talon loaded with explosives which would try to ram the attacker so the drayman can get away.
MamiyaOtaru
Spaceman
So you want me to deprioritize my current reports, until you advise a status upgrade?
As expected, here come the requests to change the code. "Well, I'm no programmer and I have no understanding of the internals of your project, but wouldn't this be easy?" Currently a mission is generated with a final system, but the location within the system is not decided until one arrives in that system. Changing this would be doable, but to what end? Some code changes have to be, like those that let shields and afterburners and jump fuel work in the original. Those had a major effect on gameplay. Compared to those, I find an occasional militia Drayman a very strange thing for people to get hung up on. Maybe it's transporting prisoners. Maybe it is carrying a SWAT team. Maybe it is the spacefaring equivalent of those stakeout vans. Maybe it is just a small price to pay for not having to worry about introducing new bugs by changing code when we are about to release.
Heck if I know. Ask the people responsible for militia patrols in Pender's Star in the original game. Maybe they don't want to give pirates free reign in systems through which honest people will need to fly, despite the lack of a base in them. Maybe you can ask that the next time a State Trooper pulls you over in the middle of nowhere.Bandit LOAF said:
As expected, here come the requests to change the code. "Well, I'm no programmer and I have no understanding of the internals of your project, but wouldn't this be easy?" Currently a mission is generated with a final system, but the location within the system is not decided until one arrives in that system. Changing this would be doable, but to what end? Some code changes have to be, like those that let shields and afterburners and jump fuel work in the original. Those had a major effect on gameplay. Compared to those, I find an occasional militia Drayman a very strange thing for people to get hung up on. Maybe it's transporting prisoners. Maybe it is carrying a SWAT team. Maybe it is the spacefaring equivalent of those stakeout vans. Maybe it is just a small price to pay for not having to worry about introducing new bugs by changing code when we are about to release.
Our opinions about what needs to be "fixed" differ. Oh, andbrad said:
Yeah, bite my head off for asking you to make changes to the renders of cockpit models only you are allowed to have so the result looks more like the originals, then come in and get worked up that the militia owns a Drayman or two. [Napoleon]Gosh![/Napoleon]Brad said:
U
Unregistered
Guest
hmm....been saving that conversation long?
and, i made the changes.
if you want to label the issue of giving the militia ships they don't need...particularly for the REMAKE (remake being you are making an exact copy of the original...which is what a lot of people, myself included, expect) yeah. just like you nitpicked those incredibly small, fairly insignifacant details on my meshes i did for you....you're fuckin right i'm going to nitpick these little details you find insignificant. the game was setup the way it was for a reason. who the hell are we to question and say 'well, this is what i think is cool, and what i think is better'. destroying something for the sake of 'making it like hte vision of it in my head' is just...well...dumb. anyway, its whatever. you guys believe you're 100% right in the decisions you've made. who's going to change your mind? no one.
Brad Mick
and, i made the changes.
if you want to label the issue of giving the militia ships they don't need...particularly for the REMAKE (remake being you are making an exact copy of the original...which is what a lot of people, myself included, expect) yeah. just like you nitpicked those incredibly small, fairly insignifacant details on my meshes i did for you....you're fuckin right i'm going to nitpick these little details you find insignificant. the game was setup the way it was for a reason. who the hell are we to question and say 'well, this is what i think is cool, and what i think is better'. destroying something for the sake of 'making it like hte vision of it in my head' is just...well...dumb. anyway, its whatever. you guys believe you're 100% right in the decisions you've made. who's going to change your mind? no one.
Brad Mick
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
Is there some way to flag certain systems as not-cargo-mission-able? Heck, there must be, otherwise you'd be delivering cargo to Beta/Gamma/Delta/Delta Prime/Eden. Just treat 'empty' systems the same way.
The end result would be missions that make more sense.
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
Draymen are space trucks, not warships that need to be opposed with equal force. A militia unit would use Gladii to shoot one down.
(Pirates with Draymans is an odd concept, anyway. The occasional Galaxy used as an electronics platform was the most we ever saw them flying in the original game... and neither ship would be a very effective commerce raider.)
(Pirates with Draymans is an odd concept, anyway. The occasional Galaxy used as an electronics platform was the most we ever saw them flying in the original game... and neither ship would be a very effective commerce raider.)
Geez. Chill out, people. Sorry for starting this mess; I just saw something that didn't make sense.
Brad Mixk - this game is whatever the developers want it to be, not what you want it to be. And since it's open source, you have the right to change it to exactly what you want it to be whenever you want.
Brad Mixk - this game is whatever the developers want it to be, not what you want it to be. And since it's open source, you have the right to change it to exactly what you want it to be whenever you want.
MamiyaOtaru
Spaceman
Bandit LOAF said:
you are quick on your feet today. It is true that there aren't missions to those systems. You might laugh when you hear why that is though. Universe.xml lists all systems and the jumps between them. In Universe.xml there are no connections to Eden. The actual System files for Valhalla and Eden have jump points that link to each other so you can get there, but when the mission generator looks at universe.xml to see where it can go, it can't find a way to Eden (so no missions) We cannot do this for every system without a base, or the computer would not know that you can get from Troy to Junction (Pender's Star would have to have no links in the universe.xml file to prevent missions to it). It's weird, but that's how it is. I don't mind your suggestions of course, but you are still talking as someone who is not familiar with the internals and all their oddities. It would be more work than you have assumed.
Delivering some donuts to a militia Drayman "doesn't make sense" ? I still fail to see what is so inherently wrong with it, but you have your opinion
Someday this may change, (along with a lot of other stuff, like asteroids) but for now it would take a lot of work, and would not affect gameplay. And if you find the prospect of the Militia flying a Drayman and accepting supplies from a civilian delivery boy too unsettling, well I don't know. I just don't see how anyone possible could.
Dyret
Super Carrot!
JKeefe said:
Thats the stupidest thing i have heard for ages.
Then the developers migth just as well add drunk fluffy purple flying kamikaze hippos to the game. It's a remake, and should stay as close to the original as possible. This whole thing is even worse than the SAGA incident.
MamiyaOtaru
Spaceman
He's right, this project will be whatever we want it to be. We are the ones making it. You want something different, make it yourself. Luckily for you we happen to want it to be like the original. We don't want to add hippos. You don't have to worry about crazy stuff getting in here because we set out to do a remake. We don't need you to tell us what that means. You just need to recognize that we occasionally run up against limitations in the engine. Working around some of them would take more time than it's worth.
Worse than the PDF incident? Give me a break.
Worse than the PDF incident? Give me a break.
PopsiclePete
Mission programmer
No, to get worse, people would have to start insulting each others, victimise themselves and start an argument on who should be sorry for the mess.Dyret said:
But JKeefe is right, these people put incredible efforts into making a game for the fans, so of course they want to make something fans will like. You can give your input and your opinions on the delvelopment, but at the end of the day, it's their project, their time and their energy they put into their project. You gotta respect their design choices even if you disagree.
In short, they are working their asses off, you just download free, play and enjoy. They merit respect for the work they do for all the fans, not criticism. Input and comments, not bitching and bashing.
*edit* IMHO, LOAF and MamiyaOtaru have handled a strong but civilized argument, I didn't mean that this tread was going wrong... only Dyret's comment was upsetting me a bit.
my thing is this. if they're going to add in a bunch of stuff that isn't true to the original in the actual remake, it ceases to be a remake. it is now something totally different and should thus be called something different.
i unerstand where you're coming from Pete. The point is, if you're going to make a remake....make it a TRUE remake. Not a remake that hints at, or has 95% of, make it the full 100%. Just like Mamiya nit picked the crap out of my models until they were 100% to the ingame shots, they should expect that die hard fans that know privateer really REALLY well are going to nit pick all the little inconsistancies. Especially from me. Privateer was my first real introduction to serious sci-fi gaming. It changed my life, it's whats made me dedicate my life to the pursuit of recreating that initial experience, and even whats driven me to want to make my own games, and when i learned to model, do something WC related. anyway, it's a dead horse. near as i can tell, no one wants a true, 100% authentic remake. or because of coding limitations, or engine limitations, aren't concerned with it. i'll just go back to modeling, and keep my mouth shut or something. no matter what i say, it makes no difference.
Brad Mick
i unerstand where you're coming from Pete. The point is, if you're going to make a remake....make it a TRUE remake. Not a remake that hints at, or has 95% of, make it the full 100%. Just like Mamiya nit picked the crap out of my models until they were 100% to the ingame shots, they should expect that die hard fans that know privateer really REALLY well are going to nit pick all the little inconsistancies. Especially from me. Privateer was my first real introduction to serious sci-fi gaming. It changed my life, it's whats made me dedicate my life to the pursuit of recreating that initial experience, and even whats driven me to want to make my own games, and when i learned to model, do something WC related. anyway, it's a dead horse. near as i can tell, no one wants a true, 100% authentic remake. or because of coding limitations, or engine limitations, aren't concerned with it. i'll just go back to modeling, and keep my mouth shut or something. no matter what i say, it makes no difference.
Brad Mick
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
My role here is simply to assist the project through *my* area of experise - Wing Commander continuity. I do not suggest that everything (or anything) I say should automatically be incorporated somehow -- I'm just a voice in the crowd whose hoping to offer the minor element he knows best to the development (which is my understanding of how open source software works -- everybodies ideas are there and enough good ones mix together to make something cool).
Similarly, I would not consider the project bad or wrong for disagreeing with me - I hold no power of them, nor do I believe that continuity or strict adherence to the original is the *highest* possible achievement.
It is certainly *not* a flame war... just the proper use of this message board.
Similarly, I would not consider the project bad or wrong for disagreeing with me - I hold no power of them, nor do I believe that continuity or strict adherence to the original is the *highest* possible achievement.
It is certainly *not* a flame war... just the proper use of this message board.