The CIC OT Zone's Official You're All Huge Idiots Religion Thread
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overmortal
Bearded Person
I'm going to reiterate a point that someone else has already made:
This thread is quickly working on getting closed down, and it's because of junk like the past several posts.
I know, I know . . . I'm guilty, too.
This thread is quickly working on getting closed down, and it's because of junk like the past several posts.
I know, I know . . . I'm guilty, too.
vindicator
Rear Admiral
Dear CZ people as a gay person I feel obligated to respond to this thread to express "our" side of course it will be more my opinion
#1 if they allowed ministers that were gay into the church which I know for a fact that this is only covered by the media because it is such a high level of office in the church or whatever I also went to a local church here that had a gay pastor and he really loves g od but your predjudice would push him away because you are afarid it's people like preacher that made me wake up everyday think I was less than human that I needed to die for how I felt if I hadn't had this agay pastor show me that is was ok to love god even though I was gay I could very well be dead so IMO I think it's already further along then you realize tremble in fear as we corrupt you </herk>
#2 gay marrige I don't care recognized by the state or not we still do it it's just not legal give it time I say
does being gay make me any less human or deserve the love of god any less to qoute everything a pastor ever said when he got caught breaking the rules "atleast I am not a homosexual" as of course we know that gives you special privilage as long as you don't take it in the *&&* that makes you somehow better then I am or gives you the right to judge or deny me any rights I know in the end who I have to answer to so why do you religous types feel free to judge me so harshly and speak in such hateful ways I don't get it I don't think jesus did to make you god preacher
-rance-
#1 if they allowed ministers that were gay into the church which I know for a fact that this is only covered by the media because it is such a high level of office in the church or whatever I also went to a local church here that had a gay pastor and he really loves g od but your predjudice would push him away because you are afarid it's people like preacher that made me wake up everyday think I was less than human that I needed to die for how I felt if I hadn't had this agay pastor show me that is was ok to love god even though I was gay I could very well be dead so IMO I think it's already further along then you realize tremble in fear as we corrupt you </herk>
#2 gay marrige I don't care recognized by the state or not we still do it it's just not legal give it time I say
does being gay make me any less human or deserve the love of god any less to qoute everything a pastor ever said when he got caught breaking the rules "atleast I am not a homosexual" as of course we know that gives you special privilage as long as you don't take it in the *&&* that makes you somehow better then I am or gives you the right to judge or deny me any rights I know in the end who I have to answer to so why do you religous types feel free to judge me so harshly and speak in such hateful ways I don't get it I don't think jesus did to make you god preacher
-rance-
Death
gh0d (Administrator)
Administrative notice
Bob, Ghost, overmortal: feel free to take the silly, pointless BS posts elsewhere.
Everyone: while the discussion may be a bit heated, it hasn't gone to the outright venomous flaming that accompanies many online religion discussions (though the "you're stupid" thing was uncalled for, Ghost), so at this time I personally don't see any reason to close this thread. This is, of course, subject to change, should people decide to not play nice.
That out of the way:
Play ball!
Bob, Ghost, overmortal: feel free to take the silly, pointless BS posts elsewhere.
Everyone: while the discussion may be a bit heated, it hasn't gone to the outright venomous flaming that accompanies many online religion discussions (though the "you're stupid" thing was uncalled for, Ghost), so at this time I personally don't see any reason to close this thread. This is, of course, subject to change, should people decide to not play nice.
That out of the way:
Play ball!
Preacher
Swabbie
Banned
Ok, rance, first up: I never saw you here on the CZ before. I guess you don't post too often, looking at your post header... In any event, welcome. Bienvenido.vindicator said:
Secondly, you need to go back and read my posts on this thread a little more carefully; when you do that, you'll see that you've clearly missed a few things I've said. Nonetheless, I'll attempt to clarify or reiterate here.
-- Yer right that it's covered by the media as it is because of the high level of visibility of the story. Nothing new there. However, if you read the scripture, you'll see that its not "our" (READ: the church's) prejudice; it's a "prejudice" that God himself sets down. If you don't wanna believe the Bible, that's your right (but if that's the case, why bother going to church at all?), but we're just going by what the Book sez. I'd be intrigued to hear any gay person who claims to be a Christian put forth some kind of biblically-based defense of their position, but I ain't heard that yet. If you'd like to do so, feel free to PM me here on the CZ.
-- I never in my life, AFAIK, have as much as made a gay joke at someone, so I don't really know where you get that "people like" me have made you feel the way you felt. The great thing about God is that he loves you no matter what your situation or your sin. If that were not so, mi amigo, I ALSO would be dead: When I came to Christ I was an angry, foul-mouthed drunkard, and a raving porn-oholic.
-- The thing is this: God loves everyone as they are, but He also loves us far too much to LEAVE us the way we are. His way is to renew us from within, generally over time, And this not through our own efforts, but through His Holy Spirit's work in our hearts. If that were not so, people like David, Moses, and Paul (murderers one and all, and Dave an adulterer and coverup artist), Rahab & Mary Magdalene (both prostitutes), and countless others would not have made it to the "Hall of Fame" of the faith (as in Hebrews 11). Our sins/weaknesses do not make us less than human, rather, they make us fully human; it is the nature of the beast, unfortunately.
-- I do not worry at all that I or anyone who is truly of the faith will be corrupted; rather, I am concerned for those who do not yet know any better.
-- I am sorry to hear that some pastor caught in a bind used that sorry excuse for his actions. Sin is sin, whether it's substance addiction, gambling addiction, chronic infidelity to your spouse, child abuse, pathological lying, anger, atheism, or any other such pattern you can name. No one of us is any better than anyone else, and if you read my earlier posts you'd have caught me admitting as much about myself. There's a bumper sticker that says "Christians aren't better than anyone else, just forgiven". That pretty much sums it up. Forgiveness is available to all, but one needs to repent to receive same. And, coming to faith is no guarantee that one will not sin again, but the faith needs to be genuine. And genuine faith is marked by a decreasing incidence & severity of sin over time, not its complete elimination. I sin just about every day, but there's a distinct difference in the pattern of such over time from when I first came to faith 14 years ago (thank God!), namely, my sins now are less deliberate, less severe, and less of a "pattern" than they were beforehand.
-- I do not judge anyone; it's not my job. And no, Jesus did not "make me God" (or anyone else, for that matter), as you put it. However, every believer is called upon to speak truth and stand up for what's right, and sometimes that involves speaking up and telling forth what the Bible sez is right. It's inevitable that it will come across to those engaging in wrong conduct as "hateful" or "harsh". Just look at Christ: His stance for what was right was so hated by (some of) those He came to save that He ended up getting killled for his efforts. We Christians should hardly be surprised, then, when we encounter such militant opposition when we try to speak what is right.
All that said, I'd really like to continue this discussion with you, but can't really do so adequately in this context. If you wanna PM me, that'd be cool.
vindicator
Rear Admiral
First let me say thank you for that lengthy post, I knoiw it must have taken you a lot of thought.
I hear you mention the bible all the time is that what you trust paper and books and men's failed attempts at trying to guess what god meant when he said things.
As a former church attender I found myself too attached to the symbols of god and not to god himself. I found myself praying alot. I asked god once how can I proove that the bible is flawed. well the obvious was it was written by men, the second was a piece I saw on the civil war where the south had manipulated the bible and changed some scripture to show that slavery was ok. If that doesn't make you really think about what or who really matters, I have no Idea how to show you what I know to be true everything is flawed by man therefore you have to seek your answers elsewhere otherwise you run the risk of believing in a god that man has created and not a god that created man
-Rance-
I hear you mention the bible all the time is that what you trust paper and books and men's failed attempts at trying to guess what god meant when he said things.
As a former church attender I found myself too attached to the symbols of god and not to god himself. I found myself praying alot. I asked god once how can I proove that the bible is flawed. well the obvious was it was written by men, the second was a piece I saw on the civil war where the south had manipulated the bible and changed some scripture to show that slavery was ok. If that doesn't make you really think about what or who really matters, I have no Idea how to show you what I know to be true everything is flawed by man therefore you have to seek your answers elsewhere otherwise you run the risk of believing in a god that man has created and not a god that created man
-Rance-
Ghost said:
Ok fine so He was ordered to be killed by the roman leader in the area... but the Jews where given the option to spare Jesus from the cross several times. The offer was rejected. By that action and the fact that Jesus was betrayed to the jewish leaders of the time lead to His death. Thus by both action and inaction the Jews brought about the death (and later resurection) of Jesus Christ.
By the way I do not harbor any ill feelings twoards you for insulting my post. I am a forgiving person. But I do have one question that comes into my mind from the wording of your post. How old are you? To save some time I'm 25.
Jim
vindicator
Rear Admiral
this thread will get closed now 
to bad I missed most of the good stuff
-Rance-
to bad I missed most of the good stuff -Rance-
vindicator
Rear Admiral
for the record ChrisReid is cute :-D
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
It just seems to me that religion is ignoring why its around in the first place simply for the sake of saving face over stupid issues like this.
Organized religion exists to bring a degree of necessary order and reassurance to society. Why shouldn't I go around killing people I don't like if it won't hurt me? Well, buddy, you could... but you'll make God angry and he'll send you to hell when you die. Morals (leading to rules and laws and such) don't exist in a vacuum, and civilization doesn't become more civilized without them. Religion is the spark that creates morals based on completely abstract concepts and allowed us to move to where we are today. Religion deserves a lot of credit for this.
But instead of rolling with the punches and adapting to the current situation, the old religions are throwing these childisn 'notice me!' hissy fits. A thousand years ago it was bad (medically and perhaps developing culturally) for people to stick their wangs into other mens... non-wang-holes. So the very smart people in charge of setting up religions stepped in and said "Uhm, this God guy doesn't like that". Now that's fine. Good job, religion. It was useful at the time. But it's *not* anymore. People can stick their wangs wherever they want -- they won't get sick and society won't crumble. Religion should grin and bear it and expend effort helping with something else instead of wasting all our time yelping about why they're still relevent.
Organized religion exists to bring a degree of necessary order and reassurance to society. Why shouldn't I go around killing people I don't like if it won't hurt me? Well, buddy, you could... but you'll make God angry and he'll send you to hell when you die. Morals (leading to rules and laws and such) don't exist in a vacuum, and civilization doesn't become more civilized without them. Religion is the spark that creates morals based on completely abstract concepts and allowed us to move to where we are today. Religion deserves a lot of credit for this.
But instead of rolling with the punches and adapting to the current situation, the old religions are throwing these childisn 'notice me!' hissy fits. A thousand years ago it was bad (medically and perhaps developing culturally) for people to stick their wangs into other mens... non-wang-holes. So the very smart people in charge of setting up religions stepped in and said "Uhm, this God guy doesn't like that". Now that's fine. Good job, religion. It was useful at the time. But it's *not* anymore. People can stick their wangs wherever they want -- they won't get sick and society won't crumble. Religion should grin and bear it and expend effort helping with something else instead of wasting all our time yelping about why they're still relevent.
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
I talk about religion all the time... I'm a freaking liberal arts student. I'm just not a whiney, depressed teenager about it 
vindicator
Rear Admiral
LOAF makes a great point although LOAF that isn't necessarily true Gay men can contract aids and other STDs
since aids gay men have curbed alot of their permiscious (sp) behavior while 78% of all new aids casses are reported in straight society I think aids was gods way of saying sex without Love is bad and if aids was really gods way of killing gay as so many put it in earlier years why aren't we all dead then?
-Rance-
since aids gay men have curbed alot of their permiscious (sp) behavior while 78% of all new aids casses are reported in straight society I think aids was gods way of saying sex without Love is bad and if aids was really gods way of killing gay as so many put it in earlier years why aren't we all dead then?
-Rance-
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
Anyone *can* contract an STD in this day and age -- but it's...
- a: far less preventable than it was 2,000 years ago... when it was essentially *not* preventable.
- b: far more treatable than it was 2,000 years ago... the vast majority of STDs aren't going to kill you in this day and age, where they may well have in the past.
- a: far less preventable than it was 2,000 years ago... when it was essentially *not* preventable.
- b: far more treatable than it was 2,000 years ago... the vast majority of STDs aren't going to kill you in this day and age, where they may well have in the past.
vindicator
Rear Admiral
Okay but I have another qeustion I don't think preacher will touch.
Why is everyone more worried about ghay bishops then slaughtering these molester priests, who oddly enough contribute to the homosexual problem. if we are going to be up in arms about something lets truly tackle the huge issues instead of the easy he's unworthy cause he's gay but if a preist molests children it's less of a crime or not a crime worth kicking these folks out of their positions? I have heard it argued that there would be not enough preists then and so they can't really fire them do they have no faith that god would send new preists to them?
Now catholicisim was widely attacked but I dare say hasn't been the only church to be hit by this issue just the most media covered but my thought is if they allow preist molesters to still have their jobs they gotta let gay people be in high office too IMHO.
-Rance-
Why is everyone more worried about ghay bishops then slaughtering these molester priests, who oddly enough contribute to the homosexual problem. if we are going to be up in arms about something lets truly tackle the huge issues instead of the easy he's unworthy cause he's gay but if a preist molests children it's less of a crime or not a crime worth kicking these folks out of their positions? I have heard it argued that there would be not enough preists then and so they can't really fire them do they have no faith that god would send new preists to them?
Now catholicisim was widely attacked but I dare say hasn't been the only church to be hit by this issue just the most media covered but my thought is if they allow preist molesters to still have their jobs they gotta let gay people be in high office too IMHO.
-Rance-
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