Origin is officially dead...

Eder said:
For most of Standoff's strike missions, the player (being the wing commander and all :p) will be able to choose wheter to lead the Sabres/Crossbows or the Rapiers.
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Interesting. Will there be a choice between Sabres and Crossbows, or it will be either one or the Rapiers? It would be interesting to play the same strike mission either on a Sabre or a Crossbow. Even if on WC2 SO1 they made it clear that the Crossbow is much better than the Sabre on everything.
 
I always wanted a visual picture of the Hakaga, excellant work, can't wait till this mod is done!!!!

Origin dying sucks ass!!!!! Makes me madder than when Black Isle was dissolved and I was pissed. The only things that made me madder is when Kirk died gay style, Blair dies on his feet instead of a cockpit, and when they killed Chewie in Vector Prime. Oh and how mad I would have been if they killed Solid Snake in Sons of Liberty. Damn I am mad again, all over again. Whooooo Saawwww!!!!
 
Delance said:
Interesting. Will there be a choice between Sabres and Crossbows, or it will be either one or the Rapiers?
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Unfortunately, we're limited by the engine on this... since the ship selector doesn't let us give more than two options, these options will be between the escort wing and the bomber wing, since that's what adds more replayability IMHO. Being able to choose which bomber to use would be nice, too, but it's not as much of a drastic change.

Delance said:
Even if on WC2 SO1 they made it clear that the Crossbow is much better than the Sabre on everything.
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Afterburners are much more important in the Vision engine, though, because the AI uses them so much.... Our Sabre is definitely a better ship overall, the Crossbow just has more punch.
 
Maybe there is a way to use the simulator to let us fly any ship in a mission? that way we could fly the crossbow during one of the strikes on the hakagas? not sure how the engine worx, but that would be awesome if it were possible
 
We could probably adapt some main campaign missions for use in the simulator - not that it'd be as easy as it sounds - but I'd rather use all 10 simulator slots for original missions.

Besides, your ship selection in the sim generally doesn't mean anything - your wingmen will still fly whatever ship we assigned them to.
 
oh i see i see. is there a way to include more than 10 missions? so that way we could load up different sets depending on what we wanted to do? or is this starting to ask to much?
 
Eder said:
Being able to choose which bomber to use would be nice, too, but it's not as much of a drastic change.
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True. I was thinking more in terms of, instead of sending 4 crossbows escorted by 4 rapiers, to send 8 sabres. Less punch per ship, but they can fight off other fighters more easly and need no escort. Just an idea.
 
Hey Eder,

Are the Sabres in Standoff are going to use any "heavy strike" loads (2 IR, 6 torp) like in the end of WC2, or are the "strike" load (4 IR, 2 IFF, 2 torp) is going to be the default and used about as much as the "dogfight" load (4 IR, 2 IFF, 2 DF, 2 chaff pod)?
 
Dundradal said:
oh i see i see. is there a way to include more than 10 missions? so that way we could load up different sets depending on what we wanted to do? or is this starting to ask to much?
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No, I don't think there is a way to do this... the simulator screen always looks for the same mission files (s0.mis thru s9.mis).

Delance said:
True. I was thinking more in terms of, instead of sending 4 crossbows escorted by 4 rapiers, to send 8 sabres. Less punch per ship, but they can fight off other fighters more easly and need no escort. Just an idea.
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Hmm, that's a good idea, but we'd still need to offer more than two choices to the player (between leading the 4 Rapiers, the 4 Crossbows, or the 8 Sabres), and we don't know how to do that. :(

FWIW, in most of the later strike missions the Firekka's wings will never operate alone - if it's sending out a strike team of Rapiers and Crossbows, they'll probably meet up with Epees and Broadswords from the Saratoga, or Morningstars from the Concordia, or somesuch.

Psych, Sabre loadouts are as follows:
Strike - 4 IR, 4 torp (halfway between the two WC2 loadouts)
Dogfight - 4 IR, 2 FF, 2 DF
There's no difference in the amount of countermeasures between these two loadouts, and I think the fighter loadout will rarely be used by the player in the main campaign - in most of the missions, if we've given him a Sabre or if we've let him choose one for himself, there'll be a capship to get rid of.

Some capships can be destroyed with just two torpedoes (Ralatha, Gilgamesh), most require three, and some four - I don't think there's any Kilrathi ship that requires four torpedoes, though.

Except the Hakaga, of course. That one requires entire wings to empty up their bays on the same component for it to be destroyed. :p
 
Eder said:
Hmm, that's a good idea, but we'd still need to offer more than two choices to the player (between leading the 4 Rapiers, the 4 Crossbows, or the 8 Sabres), and we don't know how to do that. :(
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Speak for yourself :p.

(I'm not sure if this is a good idea, though... we do want to finish this project at some point)
 
Hey, if you feel like coding three versions of the same mission, and if the idea isn't something lame like showing two ship selectors in sequence, I'm all for it.

As I recall, though, you were the one who said we shouldn't bother making even two versions of so many missions. :p
 
Yep, and I stand by what I said :p. That's why I noted that while we *could* do three-ship choices, it wouldn't be very time-effective.
 
Actually the two-selections-in-sequence might work if you could set it up so that the first choice is between bomber/escort wings and the second choice is between available ships within the wing. Then again, I really don't see any reason that a player would choose a ship other than Rapier/Sabre/Crossbow, since the Stiletto and Galdius are inferior to them (IIRC you can only fly those five in the actual missions).

But speaking seriously, the Crossbow has more speed, maneuverability, and gun power than a Broadsword. The only really big drawback I can see it having over the Sabre is the lack of afterburner.

As far as ship selection goes, I would just stick with the Rapier/Crossbow choice for missions where you get to pick between escort and bombing, Rapier/Sabre for missions where you will not be in a bombing wing, and Sabre/Crossbow for missions where you will definitely be in a bombing wing.
 
Ijuin said:
Actually the two-selections-in-sequence might work if you could set it up so that the first choice is between bomber/escort wings and the second choice is between available ships within the wing.
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The selection windows display the 3d model of the ship you're choosing, though - I'd have to make a text mesh that says "fighters" and another that says "bombers" or something like that. Wouldn't look very professional. :p

Ijuin said:
Then again, I really don't see any reason that a player would choose a ship other than Rapier/Sabre/Crossbow, since the Stiletto and Galdius are inferior to them (IIRC you can only fly those five in the actual missions).
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Yep, those are the only 5 onboard the Firekka, and yep, there's basically no reason to fly a Stiletto or Gladius once you get to the Rapiers and Sabres.

Ijuin said:
But speaking seriously, the Crossbow has more speed, maneuverability, and gun power than a Broadsword. The only really big drawback I can see it having over the Sabre is the lack of afterburner.
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That alone already makes a big difference when flying against WCP's AI - they use afterburners a *lot*. Another problem with Crossbows in Standoff, though, is that they're not cheap, while the Firekka is. :p If you lose a Crossbow, forget about ever getting a replacement.

Ijuin said:
As far as ship selection goes, I would just stick with the Rapier/Crossbow choice for missions where you get to pick between escort and bombing, Rapier/Sabre for missions where you will not be in a bombing wing, and Sabre/Crossbow for missions where you will definitely be in a bombing wing.
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Well, me and Quarto aren't feeling very time-effective lately, so we're going for a three ship selection method which doesn't look as lame as having two ship chooser screens one after the other. Quarto's idea will probably work without any problems.

The player will now get to choose between the Rapier, Sabre, and Crossbow in the event of a strike mission, provided of course that he has enough of each ship available at that point. If the player picks the Rapier, we will probably have the other wing default to using Sabres unless there's not enough of them.

I liked this new idea, specially since it allows the player to choose when to risk his Crossbows (you never know when all your wingmen will have to eject :p).
 
Eder said:
The player will now get to choose between the Rapier, Sabre, and Crossbow in the event of a strike mission, provided of course that he has enough of each ship available at that point. If the player picks the Rapier, we will probably have the other wing default to using Sabres unless there's not enough of them.

I liked this new idea, specially since it allows the player to choose when to risk his Crossbows (you never know when all your wingmen will have to eject :p).
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Am I correct in understanding that the game keeps track of ships lost? So if we lose all our crossbows there are no replacements? Or at certain stages when the carrier is refitted (?) we get new planes?
 
Yes, the game keeps track of all lost ships - the player gets periodic reports on the number of ships left via the in-game fiction viewer.

There'll often be resupplies, though. Sometimes the resupply transports will just arrive while you're somewhere else and you'll learn about it via the fiction, sometimes you will have to escort them to your carrier on your way home from a mission... sometimes they will replace all your losses, sometimes just one type of ship... however, none of them will replace lost Crossbows. The Firekka gets Crossbows just because it has one lucky day. Once. :p

Resupplies are fewer and farther between during peacetime.
 
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