Kilrathi interior designer needed
- Thread starter Aginor
- Start date
Aginor
Vice Admiral
Another YAY!
my copies of the WC3 and WC4 novels arrived today. they had a long way from Portland,Oregon but they arrived unharmed. So I have a lot more to read now. I hope it will improve the quality of my mod.
Because of my computer breakdown and my job there isn't much progress this week except a bit of story, but I am confident I will make more progress next week . So stay tuned for more!
my copies of the WC3 and WC4 novels arrived today. they had a long way from Portland,Oregon but they arrived unharmed. So I have a lot more to read now. I hope it will improve the quality of my mod.
Because of my computer breakdown and my job there isn't much progress this week except a bit of story, but I am confident I will make more progress next week . So stay tuned for more!
Wojo
Rear Admiral
Finally got some time to post a couple of sketches.
which let to:
And here's my mainhall for my mod. Just for fun. You may recognise it...
So I have been going for a whole open/communal feel for the Kilrathi mainhall. If you imagine a space directly below the length of a hangar bay of your typical Kilrathi carrier, thats the space. It incorporates the whole running area of the ship. Was thinking about the whole hunter/predator ethos, Lions hanging out together in africa etc. etc. Let me know what you think!
which let to:
And here's my mainhall for my mod. Just for fun. You may recognise it...
So I have been going for a whole open/communal feel for the Kilrathi mainhall. If you imagine a space directly below the length of a hangar bay of your typical Kilrathi carrier, thats the space. It incorporates the whole running area of the ship. Was thinking about the whole hunter/predator ethos, Lions hanging out together in africa etc. etc. Let me know what you think!
Aginor
Vice Admiral
I like the design, it looks... Kilrathi! Great start!
I think it would be perfect for a great hall somewhere on a planet base or a really big ship.
...it is just too big if it is for a ship I think. I don't know where it could fit on any ship except the KDN.
I like the trophies and the sloped walls. The furnace is a neat idea but on a smaller version I would omit it. Those things are pretty dangerous in smaller rooms.
Having ships in the main hall sounds like something Kilrathi would do, but I think it would be impractical. Another problem would be that it should be... generic, so other Kilrathi mods can use it as well. Having ships from one era standing around there would be strange when the mod is in another era. That's the cool thing with Saga's main hall. If you replace the view to the hangar deck with a generic view into space (like in Shotglass' bar) and remove the Hermes logo on the wall it is pretty generic. It will fit for almost every Terran campaign.
I'm not sure if I like the picnic blankets though, I'm still thinking about them.
The size of the room should be comparable to the Saga main hall I think, because a size like that will fit as a central room for most ships, not only the big ones. My campaign for example will have a rather small ship as the base of operations, people will find it weird if the main hall is half the size of the whole ship
Also the six clickable spots (campaign choice, pilot choice, preferences, start mission, tech room, exit) should all be big enough (compare Saga main hall's door size) that people can easily find and click them.
So yeah, while I like your design very much I think it doesn't fit for the desired purpose the way it is, which is why I would kindly ask you to try again.
And of course the offer still stands: If anyone else has ideas as well, go ahead and post them!
In other news: I am working full speed on my mod and will soon post some more facts about it. I have already wrote most of the second story chapter, mission 6/10 is close to being finished, and I'm working on some special things at the moment.
I think it would be perfect for a great hall somewhere on a planet base or a really big ship.
...it is just too big if it is for a ship I think. I don't know where it could fit on any ship except the KDN.
I like the trophies and the sloped walls. The furnace is a neat idea but on a smaller version I would omit it. Those things are pretty dangerous in smaller rooms.
Having ships in the main hall sounds like something Kilrathi would do, but I think it would be impractical. Another problem would be that it should be... generic, so other Kilrathi mods can use it as well. Having ships from one era standing around there would be strange when the mod is in another era. That's the cool thing with Saga's main hall. If you replace the view to the hangar deck with a generic view into space (like in Shotglass' bar) and remove the Hermes logo on the wall it is pretty generic. It will fit for almost every Terran campaign.
I'm not sure if I like the picnic blankets though, I'm still thinking about them.
The size of the room should be comparable to the Saga main hall I think, because a size like that will fit as a central room for most ships, not only the big ones. My campaign for example will have a rather small ship as the base of operations, people will find it weird if the main hall is half the size of the whole ship
Also the six clickable spots (campaign choice, pilot choice, preferences, start mission, tech room, exit) should all be big enough (compare Saga main hall's door size) that people can easily find and click them.
So yeah, while I like your design very much I think it doesn't fit for the desired purpose the way it is, which is why I would kindly ask you to try again.
And of course the offer still stands: If anyone else has ideas as well, go ahead and post them!
In other news: I am working full speed on my mod and will soon post some more facts about it. I have already wrote most of the second story chapter, mission 6/10 is close to being finished, and I'm working on some special things at the moment.
Wojo
Rear Admiral
Thanks for all the responses, folks.
You've summed up pretty much the same conclusions as I came to - it needs to be much less grand in scale. Good point about keeping it non-specific to ship class - should be easy so long as I keep it in mind as I go. Interestingly, that design originally started much smaller, and just kind of ballooned as I went on... By no means is it meant to be a final version, hence the low quality of the drawing, it's simply to explore options, and generate this exact discussion we're having. So, hooray! Mission Accomplished! But good point about the era of ships also. Removing them from the hall would make it easier to use elsewhere.
The furnace is more like a cooking fire - complete with hanging meat... has a little bit of protection. But like I said earlier, I doubt Kilrathi would be that hung up about workplace safety, huh? Will keep in mind the clickable areas - was always in the back of my mind, will develop as the design does.
No picnic blankets? Awww! Never mind, was just comedic indulgence on my part. Was also thinking about scratching posts and litter boxes
Tiger Claw mainhall - perhaps not the Tiger Claw per se. Reconstructed from the film, but some areas were a little vague, or I changed them to fit what I needed for the menu system. The game version has little animated features (i.e. a couple of people, opening & closing doors etc.)
Will update when I get a chance. Unfortunately my time is quite limited, so hoping you don't need anything REALLY soon. But I can smash a 3d model out pretty quickly when I get up to steam.
You've summed up pretty much the same conclusions as I came to - it needs to be much less grand in scale. Good point about keeping it non-specific to ship class - should be easy so long as I keep it in mind as I go. Interestingly, that design originally started much smaller, and just kind of ballooned as I went on... By no means is it meant to be a final version, hence the low quality of the drawing, it's simply to explore options, and generate this exact discussion we're having. So, hooray! Mission Accomplished! But good point about the era of ships also. Removing them from the hall would make it easier to use elsewhere.
The furnace is more like a cooking fire - complete with hanging meat... has a little bit of protection. But like I said earlier, I doubt Kilrathi would be that hung up about workplace safety, huh? Will keep in mind the clickable areas - was always in the back of my mind, will develop as the design does.
No picnic blankets? Awww! Never mind, was just comedic indulgence on my part. Was also thinking about scratching posts and litter boxes
Tiger Claw mainhall - perhaps not the Tiger Claw per se. Reconstructed from the film, but some areas were a little vague, or I changed them to fit what I needed for the menu system. The game version has little animated features (i.e. a couple of people, opening & closing doors etc.)
Will update when I get a chance. Unfortunately my time is quite limited, so hoping you don't need anything REALLY soon. But I can smash a 3d model out pretty quickly when I get up to steam.
Aginor
Vice Admiral
Small update on my mod's progress:
Today I fixed the Bloodfang shine map and corrected its engine glows which were slightly off. I also corrected some minor issues on Scooby's Clydesdale and fixed some things in two of my missions. Mission six is still not completely finished but I think I can finish it this weekend or maybe on monday.
Then I did another HUD for a fighter that was previously missing. Originally I didn't know if I could include it in the mod because it has a certain special ability which I couldn't recreate in the beginning. Now I can. And I did.
You probably know of which fighter I am talking by now, it is the Strakha!
Including its stealth ability was something I wanted to do for a long time but there is some scripting involved in that, and my first tries weren't satisfying so I decided to wait until I know FRED scripting a little bit better.
Saga included Strakhas as enemies and they work fine, but the scripts used for those are not suitable for a player ship, because there are some issues with them the player can easily exploit (such as unlimited missiles). My goal was to have an easy way of including Stealth capability for the player and his wingmen. Wingmen will use a slightly altered version of Saga's Strakha scripts. For the player I had to create a completely new set of scripts.
I'm almost finished with that now, but there are still some minor issues to fix and stealth is not as simple to implement as I want yet. I'm still working on it.
There won't be any Strakha missions in my campaign, but my Kilrathi mod aims to be a template other modders can use, so I will include a guide how to make missions with the player flying a Strakha and a demo mission that shows how it is done.
Some issues I have with the Strakha at the moment are
- energy management resets when cloaking or decloaking
- while decloaking the Strakha can fire its guns but not use its missiles (I could find a in-universe explanation for it maybe, the real reason is that if I don't deactivate missiles while decloaking there is the problem that if a player has his finger on the trigger during decloaking he will be able to launch a bonus missile)
- If the player cloaks while using the afterburner the afterburner sound doesn't stop until the player presses the afterburner button again. Dunno why.
- There is no indication in the HUD that shows the player whether he is cloaked or not. I will try to implement it WC3 style, with a HUD color change.
I also have two questions:
- Do we know whether a Strakha can use its afterburners while cloaked? Based on WC3 I *think* it can but I'm not sure.
- How fast can a Strakha recloak after decloaking? I have scripted a timeout of two seconds at the moment because it felt really weird without it.
Today I fixed the Bloodfang shine map and corrected its engine glows which were slightly off. I also corrected some minor issues on Scooby's Clydesdale and fixed some things in two of my missions. Mission six is still not completely finished but I think I can finish it this weekend or maybe on monday.
Then I did another HUD for a fighter that was previously missing. Originally I didn't know if I could include it in the mod because it has a certain special ability which I couldn't recreate in the beginning. Now I can. And I did.
You probably know of which fighter I am talking by now, it is the Strakha!
Including its stealth ability was something I wanted to do for a long time but there is some scripting involved in that, and my first tries weren't satisfying so I decided to wait until I know FRED scripting a little bit better.
Saga included Strakhas as enemies and they work fine, but the scripts used for those are not suitable for a player ship, because there are some issues with them the player can easily exploit (such as unlimited missiles). My goal was to have an easy way of including Stealth capability for the player and his wingmen. Wingmen will use a slightly altered version of Saga's Strakha scripts. For the player I had to create a completely new set of scripts.
I'm almost finished with that now, but there are still some minor issues to fix and stealth is not as simple to implement as I want yet. I'm still working on it.
There won't be any Strakha missions in my campaign, but my Kilrathi mod aims to be a template other modders can use, so I will include a guide how to make missions with the player flying a Strakha and a demo mission that shows how it is done.
Some issues I have with the Strakha at the moment are
- energy management resets when cloaking or decloaking
- while decloaking the Strakha can fire its guns but not use its missiles (I could find a in-universe explanation for it maybe, the real reason is that if I don't deactivate missiles while decloaking there is the problem that if a player has his finger on the trigger during decloaking he will be able to launch a bonus missile)
- If the player cloaks while using the afterburner the afterburner sound doesn't stop until the player presses the afterburner button again. Dunno why.
- There is no indication in the HUD that shows the player whether he is cloaked or not. I will try to implement it WC3 style, with a HUD color change.
I also have two questions:
- Do we know whether a Strakha can use its afterburners while cloaked? Based on WC3 I *think* it can but I'm not sure.
- How fast can a Strakha recloak after decloaking? I have scripted a timeout of two seconds at the moment because it felt really weird without it.
FekLeyrTarg
Rear Admiral
I've got another idea how to show the player that his ship is cloaked: Either a blinking or invisible ship in the shield indicator (right to the radar)
Wojo
Rear Admiral
That's an awesome idea - just swap out the shield HUD gauge for one that has an 'outline only' image of the ship while it's cloaked. More scripting I suppose. Don't even know if it's possible as I stay the hell away from FRED. Or at least the crazy parts of it.
Aginor
Vice Admiral
I have just played a little with FRED and unfortunately it seems like WC3-style isn't possible. I can't change the HUD colors.
For now I included a text gauge near the middle of the screen that displays the four possibilities in a clearly visible text. Easy to do and easy to read:
- visible
- cloaking (weapons are already off but enemies will keep attacking until the Strakha is fully cloaked)
- cloaked
- decloaking (weapons already working but Strakha is not yet fully visible)
Blinking would work with a new hud ani file I guess but I think it would be a little annoying. I like Wojo's outline idea but I have no clue how to swap gauges. I would have to make the original gauge invisible and activate the other one instead or something like that. Also if there are other stealth ships (Excalibur or Darket or whatever) someone would have to make such a gauge for these. With a gauge like I did the advantage is that you just have to add one line to the ships.tbl to include it.
For now I included a text gauge near the middle of the screen that displays the four possibilities in a clearly visible text. Easy to do and easy to read:
- visible
- cloaking (weapons are already off but enemies will keep attacking until the Strakha is fully cloaked)
- cloaked
- decloaking (weapons already working but Strakha is not yet fully visible)
Blinking would work with a new hud ani file I guess but I think it would be a little annoying. I like Wojo's outline idea but I have no clue how to swap gauges. I would have to make the original gauge invisible and activate the other one instead or something like that. Also if there are other stealth ships (Excalibur or Darket or whatever) someone would have to make such a gauge for these. With a gauge like I did the advantage is that you just have to add one line to the ships.tbl to include it.
Aginor
Vice Admiral
Well, I found out that I can live with some hours sleep less, and it has almost no downsides. (besides making me go stark raving mad). I have a lot to do at work otherwise I would have done even more by now.
..which reminds me to give a small update again:
Yesterday night I worked on my Strakha wingman scripts. They are not perfect yet but they work. If the player orders the Strakha wing to "form on my wing" and he is cloaked the wingmen will follow his example and stay cloaked until he gives orders to break and attack.
Bonus: If you don't tell Strakhas to break and attack they won't. You might ask what is so special about that, and the answer is simple: You can order them to "attack my target" or "attack subsystem" and they fly there and go in position, ready to shoot. But they don't decloak on the way and they wait for your "break and attack" order. Then they decloak and shoot.
There are still some issues with the scripts so I will have to rework some things that happen in special cases, but for most uses the scripts are almost finished.
I think I will do that today or tomorrow and return to writing story and creating missions after that.
..which reminds me to give a small update again:
Yesterday night I worked on my Strakha wingman scripts. They are not perfect yet but they work. If the player orders the Strakha wing to "form on my wing" and he is cloaked the wingmen will follow his example and stay cloaked until he gives orders to break and attack.
Bonus: If you don't tell Strakhas to break and attack they won't. You might ask what is so special about that, and the answer is simple: You can order them to "attack my target" or "attack subsystem" and they fly there and go in position, ready to shoot. But they don't decloak on the way and they wait for your "break and attack" order. Then they decloak and shoot.
There are still some issues with the scripts so I will have to rework some things that happen in special cases, but for most uses the scripts are almost finished.
I think I will do that today or tomorrow and return to writing story and creating missions after that.
Aginor
Vice Admiral
Aaand I forgot to ask the next question (please also read the ones asked in my previous two posts):
I am pretty sure WC3-Strakhas fire while decloaking. This is not easily possible for wingmen Strakhas because of technical reasons. The player can do it at the moment and it feels incredibly cool because it sort of simulates the shock the AI has when a Strakha decloakes directly behind them and opens fire. Also it looks really badass.
...but then I read that part in False Colors where Bondarevsky flies the Strakha for the first time. I may misinterpret the description but it sounds like a Strakha cannot fire until completely decloaked. So which one is it, and do you think I should change the script behaviour that way?
I am pretty sure WC3-Strakhas fire while decloaking. This is not easily possible for wingmen Strakhas because of technical reasons. The player can do it at the moment and it feels incredibly cool because it sort of simulates the shock the AI has when a Strakha decloakes directly behind them and opens fire. Also it looks really badass.
...but then I read that part in False Colors where Bondarevsky flies the Strakha for the first time. I may misinterpret the description but it sounds like a Strakha cannot fire until completely decloaked. So which one is it, and do you think I should change the script behaviour that way?
capi3101
Admiral
In my experience, the way cloaked ships have behaved in the games, firing guns causes ships to decloak - though the craft can begin shooting while still fully cloaked - and firing missiles has to wait until the ship is fully decloaked. I'd have to read False Colors again to see the specific situation Bondarevsky was in at the time to know if it's consistent or not.
Aginor
Vice Admiral
It is page 295. It says he can't fire while decloaking.
In the games I think there are only two states: cloaked and visible. so you become visible instantly (except graphically). So we don't know it exactly I guess. I will take the book version for now (AI already does it that way) and see how it works for the player.
In the games I think there are only two states: cloaked and visible. so you become visible instantly (except graphically). So we don't know it exactly I guess. I will take the book version for now (AI already does it that way) and see how it works for the player.
Aginor
Vice Admiral
Yeah, double post again, I know. But I have to tell the world what I'm thinking, that helps in the creative process.
Today is a strange day. I didn't feel like modding a mission but I did it anyway. Perhaps I shouldn't have, the results are a bit strange.
I finished the structure for mission 6 of my campaign, now it only lacks the messages and a bit of balancing.
And then.... well, basically I found out that not working on that mission for two days seems to have damaged my skills. I had a very hard time trying to beat the current version on medium. Dralthis vs. Longbows is not an easy fight, you have to fly much different compared to Terran ships or you are toast. And on easy it is too easy for my taste, the AI almost finishes the mission without me if I give the orders well.
I wonder if I have to rebalance it, but I guess the testers will tell me once the tests start (which will happen as soon as I have finished all of the missions).
I will finish the mission tomorrow I think, but I'm not really content with it yet. That's the first time this happens to me. I liked all my previous missions after the basic structure was finished. So maybe I have to revisit it after I finished the rest.
But you know, show must go on. After finishing it I will work on mission 7.
That's all for now, I'll be back tomorrow.
Today is a strange day. I didn't feel like modding a mission but I did it anyway. Perhaps I shouldn't have, the results are a bit strange.
I finished the structure for mission 6 of my campaign, now it only lacks the messages and a bit of balancing.
And then.... well, basically I found out that not working on that mission for two days seems to have damaged my skills. I had a very hard time trying to beat the current version on medium. Dralthis vs. Longbows is not an easy fight, you have to fly much different compared to Terran ships or you are toast. And on easy it is too easy for my taste, the AI almost finishes the mission without me if I give the orders well.
I wonder if I have to rebalance it, but I guess the testers will tell me once the tests start (which will happen as soon as I have finished all of the missions).
I will finish the mission tomorrow I think, but I'm not really content with it yet. That's the first time this happens to me. I liked all my previous missions after the basic structure was finished. So maybe I have to revisit it after I finished the rest.
But you know, show must go on. After finishing it I will work on mission 7.
That's all for now, I'll be back tomorrow.
capi3101
Admiral
How many Dralthi against how many Longbows? Just curious. If it's any help to you, using WCRPG's system a Longbow is equivalent to 2.34 Dralthi (in other words, 2.34 Dralthi should be an even match against 1.00 Longbows). Probably not helpful, but I figured I'd throw it out there anyway.
Aginor
Vice Admiral
It depends vastly on the missiles they are carrying and on the AI level they have.
On medium difficulty (which tries to resemble WC3 concerning balancing) it looks like this:
there are two Longbows and four Dralthis. If the player is not one of those Dralthis AND the Longbows carry their standard missile load AND don't have another goal (such as destroying a capship) they will toast the Dralthis in most cases.
So I guess your number is not bad. Less than 3 Dralthis have a hard time against a Longbow because those rear turrets are extremely powerful, worse than Paktahns (ok, maybe not worse but equally annoying).
On medium difficulty (which tries to resemble WC3 concerning balancing) it looks like this:
there are two Longbows and four Dralthis. If the player is not one of those Dralthis AND the Longbows carry their standard missile load AND don't have another goal (such as destroying a capship) they will toast the Dralthis in most cases.
So I guess your number is not bad. Less than 3 Dralthis have a hard time against a Longbow because those rear turrets are extremely powerful, worse than Paktahns (ok, maybe not worse but equally annoying).
Aginor
Vice Admiral
Short status update:
My streak of bad luck doesn't seem to be finished yet. I'm writing on my phone again because my ethernet switch died today.
Anyway, there is some progress. I went back and corrected some things in mission 3,4 and 5, and I worked on mission 6 again. It is still not finished and I'm still not entirely happy with it though.
So I did something different. I took my vector graphics program and created rank insignia and medals for the Kilrathi. I can't post the concepts now, but I can do it tomorrow I think.
I'm not completely unskilled in 2D things as you know, but I think I will need someone with more photoshop experience than I have to add some effects like metal texture and shine to them. So if anyone here is able to do that please tell me.
That's it for now, stay tuned!
My streak of bad luck doesn't seem to be finished yet. I'm writing on my phone again because my ethernet switch died today.
Anyway, there is some progress. I went back and corrected some things in mission 3,4 and 5, and I worked on mission 6 again. It is still not finished and I'm still not entirely happy with it though.
So I did something different. I took my vector graphics program and created rank insignia and medals for the Kilrathi. I can't post the concepts now, but I can do it tomorrow I think.
I'm not completely unskilled in 2D things as you know, but I think I will need someone with more photoshop experience than I have to add some effects like metal texture and shine to them. So if anyone here is able to do that please tell me.
That's it for now, stay tuned!