EW talks about Starlancer (yeah, I know it's scarry).

Knight says:
Good point. But as good as it may be, there's no point in argueing, because there seem to be too many that think giving money away is ok.

Paying $10 each month for gameplay is better than buying 5-10 games each year, each one of them for $40-$60.


That's the biggest overestimate I've ever heard. We barely know anything about either game, and you won't even consider playing SL, becaues its a WC copy (tell me, what game that takes place in space didn't originate from WC?), so how can you make a statement like that?

Who says that I won't buy SL? I probably will, but I don't expect it to be especialy good in anything.

I don't want POL to flop because that probably would spell the end of WC, but I'd rather see something like DFS2 or SL, where its SP, with MP built in, and the MP carried by an online setup like heat.net or something similar, but since I'll just get flamed for saying that, and probably the rest of the stuff I was going to say, I'm going to shut up.

But FS2, SL, or any kind of MP that there can be in an SP WC game, won't compare to what you could do in POL. Death match/squad wars, could all be available for free in POL, but the main point of the game is to interact with people all over your country, and the entire world. $10 a month isn't that much and internet connections won't probably have to be faster than 56K.

We already have 10 SP games with 6 add-ons. I enjoyed all of them (at least the ones I have) but it's time for something new. And even though we don't know practicly anything about POL, we do know that it's coming.



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A good soldier is not the one who die for his country, it's the one who makes his enemy die for his.
Gen. Patton
 
Earthworm said:
But FS2, SL, or any kind of MP that there can be in an SP WC game, won't compare to what you could do in POL. Death match/squad wars, could all be available for free in POL, but the main point of the game is to interact with people all over your country, and the entire world. $10 a month isn't that much and internet connections won't probably have to be faster than 56K.

We already have 10 SP games with 6 add-ons. I enjoyed all of them (at least the ones I have) but it's time for something new. And even though we don't know practicly anything about POL, we do know that it's coming.

While I agree, it would be nice, but I'd rather buy 6 games a year, 1 every two months, and have variety, than play the same stuff time and time again, etc. Don't say anything about head-to-head. Ask LucasArts about all that online stuff. They'll give you an earful.

While I agree, we need something new, let me remind you, we also "knew" Priv3 was coming. We "knew" that Sierra was going to give us another space sim, til they cut it at the last minute. Also, everyone "knew" that OpForce was going to kick ass, because it was a Half-Life Addon. Did any of this stuff come true? I'll quote the guy from Under Siege 2, who said "Assumption is the mother of all fuckups. (Excuse the language.)

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But you can play those games for a month or two, and than you'll get bored with them. You may replay them every once in a while, but it's going to be the same thing. POL universe will chanve all the time. OSI will probably add new ships/weapons/systems/planets all the time. You may think you have the hottest ship in the galaxy, than you'll play the game after few weeks of absence and you'll find that you only have a medium ship that's nearly obsolete. Yes, wariety is important, and POL will deliver that variety every time you log on.

Also, Priv 3 was canceled because OSI switched to MMP, belive me, OSI won't go back to SP right now because of many reasons. They hired a full crew of experienced MP people, I can only assume that they already have done more with POL than they did with Priv 3. POL is coming. I'm not assuming it'll come, I know it'll come.
 
I know it to. Just because I know it doesn't mean I have to like it. BTW, check FanFic EW, I've left you some new reading material.

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Of course you don't have to like it. But IMO it'll be better than any other kind of MP in a game, or any SP game.

And you shouldn't post that much storys.
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I'm almost done with chapter 1, and you already posted chapter 2.
 
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Couldn't help it, I posted Chapter 1, and looked over chapter 2 real quick, then decided to go ahead and finish it while I had the ideas in my head. Otherwise, it'd be months before I would have thought of ways to continue that
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Whoa... I've never seen so many baseless assumptions in my whole life. Earthworm, for all we know, POL might utterly suck. You seem to be assuming that just because Origin is making it, it will be the greatest game ever... well, BS. Pacific Strike. Savage Empire. Ultima 6. KSaga... need I say more? I imagine that the above list of bugs... er, that is... games with bugs, would be a lot longer if I had bothered to play the myriad other Origin games.
For all those who think that POL will be the best game ever, I highly recommend you go play Pacific Strike...

But you can play those games for a month or two, and than you'll get bored with them.
Really? I replay all the WC games at least once a year. Hell, at one point I replayed WC1 and 2 on average once every three months. In fact, I'm replaying WC1 right now. On a side note, I just took out the last Gratha, thus saving the Ralari... when those f***ing Rapiers shot me in the back.

OSI will probably add new ships/weapons/systems/planets all the time.
Sure... like they add new weapons, races, and places to UO. All the time.
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Why, nothing ever stays constant in UO. Some players log on ever five minutes just to see what new stuff those crazy folks at Origin thought up now...
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Paying $10 each month for gameplay is better than buying 5-10 games each year, each one of them for $40-$60.
$10*12 = $120 + 4-9 games a year = $280-$660. (Since you won't stop buying other games just because of POL)
5-10*$40-60 = $200-$600.
Wow, I see your point, Earthworm. Paying $10 per month really is better... if you decide to stop buying all other games
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.

But FS2, SL, or any kind of MP that there can be in an SP WC game, won't compare to what you could do in POL.
And pray tell Earthworm, what can one do in POL... apart from waiting for it, of course?

Except that from all the hype from DA, and I assume it's only the stuff that DA wants us to hear , SL wont' bring anything new, and will be a copy of other good space sims.
WC has been a copy of other good space sims ever since WC2, which copied WC1 almost completely
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. The changes in gameplay throughout the years had been negligible. And WC3's "innovative" 3D polygon system wasn't new at all. It had been used in X-Wing, TIE-Fighter, Nomad, and plenty of other games.

Anyway, I'm gonna shut up now, because this reminds me too much of "X vs. Y" threads. The funny thing about this one is that it's essentially "noexistent X vs. nonexistent Y"
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. So, let's adjourn this discussion at least until SL comes out.
 
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WOW! Someone that agrees with me! I've never met someone like you before Quarto!
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Quarto said:
Whoa... I've never seen so many baseless assumptions in my whole life. Earthworm, for all we know, POL might utterly suck. You seem to be assuming that just because Origin is making it, it will be the greatest game ever... well, BS.
No I'm not Quarto.
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For all we know everything can suck. But I know that it'll be a WC game, and that it will be a persistant world. But it's true I haven't seen a game by OSI that sucks.

Pacific Strike. Savage Empire. Ultima 6. KSaga... need I say more?
Yed, you do need to say more. Those games may have bugs, but they don't suck. Myself, just like many other people haven't encountered any bugs in KS by the way.

Really? I replay all the WC games at least once a year. Hell, at one point I replayed WC1 and 2 on average once every three months. In fact, I'm replaying WC1 right now. On a side note, I just took out the last Gratha, thus saving the Ralari... when those f***ing Rapiers shot me in the back.

That's because the WC games aren't your average games.
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Their great, light years ahead of those so called space sims coming out right now. Even WC1 wich is 10 years old is better than most space sims coming out these days. And I realy doubt that SL will be similar. Because it won't have anything new.

Sure... like they add new weapons, races, and places to UO. All the time.
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Except UO isn't a space sim. So why would they add new planets? It takes place on one planet, so how could they add new races? And since there would be new technology in POL every time, you'd probably get new weapons too.

Why, nothing ever stays constant in UO. Some players log on ever five minutes just to see what new stuff those crazy folks at Origin thought up now...
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Um, whatever. The place will change. Of course it won't be any different after few minutes. And like I said UO is not a space sim. It can't expand into the universe like POL could.

$10*12 = $120 + 4-9 games a year = $280-$660. (Since you won't stop buying other games just because of POL)
5-10*$40-60 = $200-$600.
Wow, I see your point, Earthworm. Paying $10 per month really is better... if you decide to stop buying all other games
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.

Of course I'll stop buying other games. Or at least I won't buy as many as I do now. If I'll be playing POL and trying to get a new ship, or some other cool stuff there is, or maybe even try to make myself a small empire I'll be playing it more than any other game (if I'll be playing any other games at all).

So, 10*12=120. $120+$60 for the game itself= $180. 7 games that will probably bore me after few weeks/months * an average price of $40=$280.

And pray tell Earthworm, what can one do in POL... apart from waiting for it, of course?

From seing Privateer/Privateer 2, as well as UO, it's very easy to see what there will be in POL.

WC has been a copy of other good space sims ever since WC2, which copied WC1 almost completely
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.
But it borowed from it's own series, made by the same company.
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It had every right to do that. Meanwhile SL will copy stuff from all other space sims, and won't add practicly anything.

The changes in gameplay throughout the years had been negligible.
Of course they weren't.
WC2 featured better AI, rear turrets on fighters, capships with shields not penetrable by anything else other than torps and maces.
WC3 featured better AI, missiles that actualy work, capships that are harder to destroy, better mission variety, planetary missions.
WC4 featured even better AI, missiles/guns that are much better than what was seen before, even better mission variety, even better planetary missions.
WCP featured a completly new, extremly smooth engine, with better weapons, larger scaled missions.
SO featured some new cooler weapons and even larger missions.
Priv featured an aspect that was explored only few times before. You could do whatever you wanted, when you wanted.
P2 featured the best non-accelerated engine in a space sim I've ever seen, one that happens to be extremly smoth, even better missions/story than P1.
 
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Yed, you do need to say more. Those games may have bugs, but they don't suck. Myself, just like many other people haven't encountered any bugs in KS by the way.
I wholeheartedly agree... but Pacific Strike was almost unplayable because of the bugs... a pity, since it also happened to be one of the best games they ever made
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. Nonetheless, the fact remains that Origin games are rife with bugs, and this will always spoil them, even if just a little bit.

And I realy doubt that SL will be similar. Because it won't have anything new.
It won't? What about superior graphics, and pretty much everything else? Those are the things you said improved in the WC series over time. So, SL will have new things. Incidentally, WC isn't the only game I replay frequently. There are many others... Dune2 comes to mind.

Except UO isn't a space sim. So why would they add new planets? It takes place on one planet, so how could they add new races? And since there would be new technology in POL every time, you'd probably get new weapons too.
Whoa... you mean that only space sims can have new planets and races? Somebody has never played AD&D, I see. The whole point of a fantasy rather than SF setting, Earthworm, is so that there are no limits to fantasy as opposed to science fiction. And there has been inter-worldly travel in the Ultima Universe... Martian Dreams, U8, Savage Empire, and of course the rest of the Ultima games, since they take place on Brittania while the main character comes from Earth
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. And new races do not need to come from other planets. In a fantasy setting, a new race can _literally_ pop out of nowhere, and no one will complain... come to think of it, they can do that in sf too
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, as proven by WCP.
How do you know there will be new technology in POL all the time? Talked to the designers? Even if there is new technology _at all_, I don't see how they could possibly add it more frequently than every half-year or so.

And like I said UO is not a space sim. It can't expand into the universe like POL could.
*Cough*Bullshit*Cough*
Oh, and... did you know that Ultima, not WC was the first space sim that Origin made
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? They had space travel in Ultima 1 or 2, way back in the 80s.

From seing Privateer/Privateer 2, as well as UO, it's very easy to see what there will be in POL.
Hardly, given the basic differences between the Ultima engine and the WC engine.

Meanwhile SL will copy stuff from all other space sims, and won't add practicly anything.
If it brings all those good things together, then it will be far superior to WC, which never brought anything new in from other series.

I'm not gonna bother replying to the rest of your post, because it would take much too long
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. Suffice to say, most of what you talked about were just changes of graphics and stats. Those are not improvements. BTW, WC3 capships were incredibly easy to destroy, and planetary missions ignored gravity.
Don't get me wrong though. WC is great - we all love it, or else we wouldn't be here. But it's time for _some_ amongst us to finally stop thinking of WC as the ultimate in space sims. From what I've seen and heard, Starlancer can very well be much better than WC. And it doesn't matter one bit that it copies WC, because all games in similar genres copy from each other. You can't expect a programmer to ignore a good idea just because somebody else thought of it first. So just relax, and stop making silly assumptions about SL's quality. We'll see what it's like when it gets here. If it turns out worse than WC, then you can come back here and yell "I told you so, Quarto!!" all you like
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.
 
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Quarto said:
I wholeheartedly agree... but Pacific Strike was almost unplayable because of the bugs... a pity, since it also happened to be one of the best games they ever made
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. Nonetheless, the fact remains that Origin games are rife with bugs, and this will always spoil them, even if just a little bit.

It also depends on your machine Quarto. I never encountered any bugs in any of the WC games. I never even got the “your carrier has been destroyed” message while still in the launch tubes in Prophecy.

It won't? What about superior graphics, and pretty much everything else? Those are the things you said improved in the WC series over time. So, SL will have new things. Incidentally, WC isn't the only game I replay frequently. There are many others... Dune2 comes to mind.

I’m not talking about the graphics Quarto.
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I don’t give a rats ass about the graphics. SL won’t bring anything new, while each WC game improved the gameplay to a certain extent (except Prophecy, it did improve, but the AI is messed up).

Whoa... you mean that only space sims can have new planets and races? Somebody has never played AD&D, I see.
No, but just because UO doesn’t get new planets every few months or so, doesn’t mean the POL won’t get any. And I don’t see a point of adding a whole universe full of planets to an RPG since it takes place on only one planet (sometimes a few more but not much).

And new races do not need to come from other planets. In a fantasy setting, a new race can _literally_ pop out of nowhere, and no one will complain... come to think of it, they can do that in sf too
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, as proven by WCP.
But the aliens in Prophecy didn’t just pop out of nowhere.
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The came through that big wormhole thingumy.
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How do you know there will be new technology in POL all the time? Talked to the designers? Even if there is new technology _at all_, I don't see how they could possibly add it more frequently than every half-year or so.

Because in a game in which you fly a ship they will give you new ships and weapons (unless OSI is stupid of course). And half a year or so? They could add them just like they did the SO episodes.

*Originally posted by Quarto:
Suffice to say, most of what you talked about were just changes of graphics and stats.*

If you consider the fact that the missiles actualy are of some use is just a change of stats than you're right.
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*Those are not improvements.*

Sure they are. They're called gameplay improvements.

*BTW, WC3 capships were incredibly easy to destroy,*

No they weren't.
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At least not as easy as WC1/WC2 caphsips.

*and planetary missions ignored gravity.*

But they looked different than the rest of the missions, they gave you some new targets like tanks and SAM's, and you could hit the ground. Not to mentin you could fly out of the atmosphere and fail the mission.

*Don't get me wrong though. WC is great - we all love it, or else we wouldn't be here. But it's time for _some_ amongst us to finally stop thinking of WC as the ultimate in space sims.*

But the truth is, it is the ultimate in space sims. At least for now, and SL doesen't exactly look like it will change that.

*From what I've seen and heard, Starlancer can very well be much better than WC.*

Did you even read any of the SL previes/beta reviews?
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All of them praise the game as being very similar to WC, the controls are almost the same, the gameplay feels almost like WC...

*And it doesn't matter one bit that it copies WC, because all games in similar genres copy from each other. You can't expect a programmer to ignore a good idea just because somebody else thought of it first.*

But it does matter that it copies practicly everything and doesen't bring anything new.

*So just relax, and stop making silly assumptions about SL's quality.*

I'm not making comments about SL's quality.

*We'll see what it's like when it gets here. If it turns out worse than WC, then you can come back here and yell "I told you so, Quarto!!" all you like
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.*

Except I'm saying that it'll probably be worse than WC.

I wouldn't mind it being better, but from all I've seen it sure doesen't look that it'll be better in any way.

I TUD y0 sU qUAto!!!!
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[This message has been edited by Earthworm (edited March 20, 2000).]
 
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Jesus Christ. EW, I don't ever, ever, ever want to hear you say anything about me wasting bandwidth, ever again. 3 reasons to stop this arguement:
#1, WHO CARES IF SL SUCKS OR IF IT ROCKS? People are going to buy and play it anyway.
#2, Why won't you admit defeat? (not really a reason, but a question that I felt like asking) Quarto has matched every point you've made, and surpassed quite a few of them. You need to go back and re-read what he wrote, because some of that stuff didn't even start to fit in with what he said.
#3, What are you gaining by dragging this out? Other than giving everyone the impression that you don't have a clue what you are talking about, and are so close-minded you wouldn't even try starlancer. Why did you even start this post if all you were goign to do is argue how much its going to suck just because its a space sim that doesn't contain "Wing Commander" in the title? BTW, I thought there was a rule about such things.....

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Calm down Knight.
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*#1, WHO CARES IF SL SUCKS OR IF IT ROCKS? People are going to buy and play it anyway.*

We're not talknig just about SL though.

*#2, Why won't you admit defeat? (not really a reason, but a question that I felt like asking) Quarto has matched every point you've made, and surpassed quite a few of them. You need to go back and re-read what he wrote, because some of that stuff didn't even start to fit in with what he said.*

Now that's BS.

*#3, What are you gaining by dragging this out? Other than giving everyone the impression that you don't have a clue what you are talking about, and are so close-minded you wouldn't even try starlancer.*

I said that I'll try SL! Jezz man, relax we're talking mostly about POL now.

*Why did you even start this post if all you were goign to do is argue how much its going to suck just because its a space sim that doesn't contain "Wing Commander" in the title? BTW, I thought there was a rule about such things.....*

Um, I don't think it will be anything spectacular because it has everything that we've alreayd seen, and nothing new and original. I don't need WC on the box to enjoy a game. And I started this post because a while back when someone posted here about the SL trailer people were saying that it doesen't even show gameplay. So I showed something that has it.
 
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I am calm damnit!
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Sorry about that. Got a little carried away
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My bad.
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Striking a man down with your blade is clean and honorable. Shooting him in the back from the darkness of an alley and hurrying to blame it on another was something else altogether.--Darth Vader
 
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That's OK Knight.
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[This message has been edited by Earthworm (edited March 20, 2000).]
 
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I’m not talking about the graphics Quarto. I don’t give a rats ass about the graphics.
You don't? Then why did you say WCP was an improvement over the earlier WCs? All it changed was the graphics... and of course the AI - for the worse.

No, but just because UO doesn’t get new planets every few months or so, doesn’t mean the POL won’t get any. And I don’t see a point of adding a whole universe full of planets to an RPG since it takes place on only one planet (sometimes a few more but not much).
Get your definitions right
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. RPG does not equal fantasy. For all we know, Priv 3 will be an RPG... in fact, that's certain
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.
The point is, fantasy is limited only by the imagination, while sf is usually a lot more limited. Compare Star Wars to WC, for example (yes, Star Wars is fantasy; it uses an equivalent of magic). Which has more diverse types of aliens and so on?

But the aliens in Prophecy didn’t just pop out of nowhere. The came through that big wormhole thingumy.
Which came where from?
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Because in a game in which you fly a ship they will give you new ships and weapons (unless OSI is stupid of course.
Well, there ya go
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. Actually, it doesn't take stupidity; just lack of funds. The reason why MMP is considered such a cash cow is because they don't need to put much work in
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. All that is needed is several (hundred) Tech Support people. The programmers, in the meantime, are dispatched to breed more cows
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.

And half a year or so? They could add them just like they did the SO episodes.
The SO episodes were made in advance. Yes, they could do so here... but how many updates dost thou think they would make? Five? Six? Let's say that they use one every week (that's obviously what you're expecting)... that's a month and a half. I spent that much playing FreeSpace
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.

Sure they are. They're called gameplay improvements.
No, they're all 'outer skin' improvements. They do not make the game even a notch more interactive. And interactivity is what gameplay is all about. If they give us a better way to control the ship, more wingman commands, more ways to interact with the other people... that will be gameplay.

"No they weren't. At least not as easy as WC1/WC2 caphsips." - I could take out a WC3 capship with my hands blindfolded and my eyes tied behind my back
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. You just had to get behind the engines and match speed... then no harm could ever come to you. Even in WC 1, you couldna just get behind the ship's engines - you had to keep moving. And WC2... try the last mission of SO1...

"But they looked different than the rest of the missions, they gave you some new targets like tanks and SAM's, and you could hit the ground. Not to mentin you could fly out of the atmosphere and fail the mission." - Tanks and SAMs are nothing. They're just little cubes with decorations
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. The different looks didn't make it feel any different, and you could pretty much ignore the ground. And flying out of the atmosphere... wow... that's like... real cool
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.

But the truth is, it is the ultimate in space sims.
BS. It is simply the first (IBM compatible) space sim. It's a great game, but hardly 'ultimate'. There is a lot of room for improvement.

"Did you even read any of the SL previes/beta reviews? All of them praise the game as being very similar to WC, the controls are almost the same, the gameplay feels almost like WC..." - Duh... no, of course I didn't read the previews
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... heck, I don't even know what SL is, I'm just arguing for the fun of it
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.
Seriously, yes I read them. And the fact is, if it was called WC: Star Lancer, then right now you'd be hopping about like mad, yelling about what a great game it's gonna be
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. Look at it this way. WC was designed by Roberts. So why shouldn't he copy the design? Anyway, the real test will be how the game plays, not how people talk about it
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.

"But it does matter that it copies practicly everything and doesen't bring anything new." - It brings in as much as WCP did.

"I wouldn't mind it being better, but from all I've seen it sure doesen't look that it'll be better in any way." - That remains to be seen... I'm giving it the benefit of the doubt, and hoping that it won't disappoint me too much.

I TUD y0 sU qUAto!!!!
fOoLiSh OoRtWoM!! nOT YeTT!!

Ah, we're getting into the silly stuff. Good, that means the discussion is almost over
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.
 
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Quarto, I thouth you weren't going to post in this thread anymore.

Quarto said:
You don't? Then why did you say WCP was an improvement over the earlier WCs? All it changed was the graphics... and of course the AI - for the worse.

Because it did improve many things.
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The engine was much smother, the missiles are very usefull, but the game is much more of a dogfighting game than WC3 and WC4, when it comes to just flying for fun Prophecy is the best in the WC series, it allows for much more ships at once creating larger battles, it brough back the "anything other than torped and Plasma inpenetrable" shielding on capships, you can target the individual subsystems, destroying capships is harder than it was in any other game.

For all we know, Priv 3 will be an RPG... in fact, that's certain
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.
But.... Priv3..... was...... canceled.......
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Compare Star Wars to WC, for example (yes, Star Wars is fantasy; it uses an equivalent of magic). Which has more diverse types of aliens and so on?

NO!!!!!! I don't even want to think about SW!
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WC actualy has many different aliens, and even though we don't see most of them, they are described quite acuratly.

Which came where from?
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Well, that's a silly question. They came from one of their own systems using technology that isn't fully understanded by the Confederation.
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Well, there ya go
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. Actually, it doesn't take stupidity; just lack of funds. The reason why MMP is considered such a cash cow is because they don't need to put much work in
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.
Yes, you're right. I'm sure that OSI people are just siting in fron of their comps playing tetris and drinking bear.....

The SO episodes were made in advance. Yes, they could do so here... but how many updates dost thou think they would make? Five? Six?
Um, I wouldn't expect one every week.
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More like every one/two months. And adding ships and weapons wouldn't be especialy hard.

Let's say that they use one every week (that's obviously what you're expecting)...

Guess again Quarto. I don't expect one every week.

that's a month and a half. I spent that much playing FreeSpace
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LOL!!! It takes me two days to finish Freespace (and I'm a very busy man).

No, they're all 'outer skin' improvements.
Whatever you say Quarto.
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Except that when something that counts during the gameplay is changed, I actualy think of it as a gameplay improvement.

They do not make the game even a notch more interactive. And interactivity is what gameplay is all about.
No it isn't. It's nice to be able to make loads of decisions and crap like that in the middle of the mission, but interactivity doesen't make gameplay.

If they give us a better way to control the ship, more wingman commands, more ways to interact with the other people... that will be gameplay.

So when they completly change the way of attacking capships, add something like escorting bombers which I've only seen once in WC2, and none in WC3/WC4 (I fly all the bombing missions in there), that doesen't count as gameplay improvements? Wingman commands aren't everything. And interacting with other people. I didn't know that there are any other people playing the game with me....

"No they weren't. At least not as easy as WC1/WC2 caphsips." - I could take out a WC3 capship with my hands blindfolded and my eyes tied behind my back
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. You just had to get behind the engines and match speed... then no harm could ever come to you. Even in WC 1, you couldna just get behind the ship's engines - you had to keep moving. And WC2... try the last mission of SO1...

But.... that's exactly what I do in WC1.
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I stop my ship, shot, fly away if my shields are going down (which doesen't happen often anyhow), let them regenerate, and than repeat. The capships in WC2 are extremly easy, even with the phase shields. The fact that the objectives of the capships in the last mission in SO2 is to kill you doesne't change the fact that overall the capships in WC2 are easy to destroy. Killing capships in WC3 is harder than WC1/WC2.

Tanks and SAMs are nothing. They're just little cubes with decorations
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.
No they're not. The tanks in WC3, were more of a danger to me than the Ekapshi's. And the SAM's are realy dangerous.

And flying out of the atmosphere... wow... that's like... real cool
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Um, flying out of atmosphere meaning that unlike in space you can fly out from the planet and automaticly loose the mission. AFAIK something like that can't happen in space.

BS. It is simply the first (IBM compatible) space sim. It's a great game, but hardly 'ultimate'. There is a lot of room for improvement.

BS!
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Yes, it was the first. And it's also better than FS/XWA and similar things.

- Duh... no, of course I didn't read the previews
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... heck, I don't even know what SL is, I'm just arguing for the fun of it
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.
Seriously, yes I read them. And the fact is, if it was called WC: Star Lancer, then right now you'd be hopping about like mad, yelling about what a great game it's gonna be
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Of course I wouldn't.
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22 minutes of CGI, only 24 linear missions, and no main character dosen't sound to good. And no one in OSI would be stupid enough to name a WC game Starlancer.
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Look at it this way. WC was designed by Roberts. So why shouldn't he copy the design? Anyway, the real test will be how the game plays, not how people talk about it
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But the Roberts that's making the game didn't have as much to do with WC as Chris Roberts. And I don't mind Erin using that stuff as long as he'll add new things.

It brings in as much as WCP did.

Somehow (probably from the screenshots/trailers/previews/hype) I doubt that.

That remains to be seen... I'm giving it the benefit of the doubt, and hoping that it won't disappoint me too much.

I think it will be a decent game, but nothing especialy good in anything.
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I TUD y0 sU qUAto!!!!
fOoLiSh OoRtWoM!! nOT YeTT!!!

Ah, we're getting into the silly stuff. Good, that means the discussion is almost over
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oF cuse id d0N"t! wE'lt coNTin@ tIs fo eve!
 
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Quarto, I thought you weren't going to post in this thread anymore.
You know how it is
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. Nothing to do... actually, I've got several assignments to finish... which is exactly why I'm here.
Laziness will be the death of me yet
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.

Because it did improve many things. The engine was much smother, the missiles are very usefull.
The WC 2 engine was also smooth
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. And the missiles were veeery useful in WC 4.
brough back
Yawn. Brought back - those are the keywords in regards to Prophecy.

But.... Priv3..... was...... canceled.......
Whoa... what was I thinking
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? Of course, I meant POL. Sheesh, I need to get more sleep. A full eight hours would be nice one of these days, but God knows that ain't about to happen.

Yes, you're right. I'm sure that OSI people are just siting in fron of their comps playing tetris and drinking bear.....
Close, but not quite
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. They're actually playing Space Invaders and drinking beer
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And adding ships and weapons wouldn't be especialy hard.
Of course it wouldn't. But somebody has to design them and implement them first. It takes more than a few minutes to create a new ship model, even with the right tools. And the designers would likely be already busy working on POL2
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Guess again Quarto. I don't expect one every week.
You're the one who talked about people logging on after "a couple of weeks" to find everything has changed and their state of the art fighter has become an obsolete piece of junk
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. That implies a lot of frequent updating.

LOL!!! It takes me two days to finish Freespace (and I'm a very busy man).
Busy? Hah. You won't know what "busy" means till you get to uni, young 'Worm. And perhaps that's why ye dinna notice the cool storyline
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. Anyway, the reason why I spent so long on it was a) I'm not as good a pilot as some, and b) After finishing it, I spent a while flying the gauntlet missions, messing around with the editor (I still had time back them... ah, high school), and generally enjoying the brilliant game engine (which on my _proper_ computer was actually more impressive than WCP).

No it isn't. It's nice to be able to make loads of decisions and crap like that in the middle of the mission, but interactivity doesen't make gameplay.
Ok, smart-ass
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. If interactivity doesn't make gameplay, then let's just get rid of it altogether, shall we? What do you get then? Wing Commander the Movie. And the movie, as you know, was a lot of fun... but you can hardly fly a fighter in it. Without interactivity, any game becomes a movie, because you can't _interact_ with it
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.

So when they completly change the way of attacking capships, add something like escorting bombers which I've only seen once in WC2, and none in WC3/WC4 (I fly all the bombing missions in there), that doesen't count as gameplay improvements?
To a degree, yes. But like you said, this stuff has already appeared in WC 2. Just because WC3/WC4 went backwards doesn't mean that WCP is bringing something new in.

Wingman commands aren't everything. And interacting with other people. I didn't know that there are any other people playing the game with me....
You didn't? That's unusual. You mean, you didn't notice all those people flying on your wing, and all those people that talked to you on the carrier? Why, Earthworm, I thought you cared about the storyline
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Killing capships in WC3 is harder than WC1/WC2.
I guess that's a matter of skill then. I found them bloody easy. Except for the Corvette, which was a major pain.

No they're not. The tanks in WC3, were more of a danger to me than the Ekapshi's. And the SAM's are realy dangerous.
Whoa... you mean the tanks can actually fire at you? Dang, I never even noticed
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. As for the SAMs... nothing a Spiculum won't fix.

Um, flying out of atmosphere meaning that unlike in space you can fly out from the planet and automaticly loose the mission. AFAIK something like that can't happen in space.
No, it doesn't. Because it's ridiculous. Why would flying away from the planet result in failure? You entered once, why not again? Or has the planet moved elsewhere, and you can't find it anymore
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?

BS! Yes, it was the first. And it's also better than FS/XWA and similar things.
Better doesn't mean 'ultimate' Earthworm. Besides each of those had its own good aspects, which we won't get into for fear of thread closure.

Of course I wouldn't. 22 minutes of CGI, only 24 linear missions, and no main character dosen't sound to good.
Sounds mighty familiar... in fact, it sounds just like SO... except for the CGI. SO didn't have proper CGI
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. I'm sure you'll tell me now that unlike SL, SO had a main character. Well, sure it did... but that fact added nothing to the game. It would have played exactly the same without Casey.

But the Roberts that's making the game didn't have as much to do with WC as Chris Roberts. And I don't mind Erin using that stuff as long as he'll add new things.
And from what I've read, this is very much the case. No sound in space (yes, I really like that a lot), more advanced controls (something you seemed to overlook in the reviews), a better way of handling the storyline (btw, WCP was pretty much linear; the only branch was the Alcor system)...

oF cuse id d0N"t! wE'lt coNTin@ tIs fo eve!
oOh, U aRR tOiLeNteDD aRtTwIrMM!! NoIbAdDyY EiLsE cAn SooND ass duMMb ass yO kAn!!

My, oh my. Is it just me, or is idiot-speak a lot more complicated then normal speech?
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Earthworm said:
I don't know, maybe it's just me, but from those two movies that game looks way to easy. It seems that few well placed gun shots will take down one fighter, and one non guided, low damage rocket can take down the entire shielding on a fighter. Though it's probably shown on the easiest dificulty, seing how much game reviewers usualy suck at games.
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You mean like a Talon going down in the Privateer intro with 3-4 shots from the single laser on Burrough's Tarsus? Or leading the missiles around on a merry goosechase in a ship that, even on afterburners, is only a bit more than half as fast as the missiles chasing him?
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SubCrid Death
Official Net.Nazi, LOAF's Merry Guild
 
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Quarto, why bother? He'll just say something that steps over what he said 5 posts ago, just to contradict you.

Earthworm, if SL doesn't have a main character, then who the hell do you play?
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Are you just "there", or do you actually take some part in the game? YOU are the main character. Take some time to think these things through before you say them. Just because it won't have a WC style main player, where we see his face before and after every mission (which, might i remind you, you didn't see in SO), it WILL have a main character. Otherwise, why in the hell bother making a user interface, just make the whole thing a CGI movie.
In the matter of WC Aliens and SW aliens. In Star Wars, there were thousands of other races mentioned. In WC, we had, what? 10, at the most? I'm not talking about anything that lives and breathes, I'm talking intellegent lifeforms that have enough common sense to fly a fighter, or take some part, (sit in a bar, drink some potent liquid, and watch a Correllian smoke a Rodianan, or whatever), in their enviroment.
... it allows for much more ships at once creating larger battles, it brough back the "anything other than torped and Plasma inpenetrable" shielding on capships, you can target the individual subsystems, destroying capships is harder than it was in any other game.
That's BS. WCP was the easiest by far to kill a capship. With a Shrike, make straffing runs, using light torps with the quick lock times (while reducing speed slightly
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) on the bridge. Then hit full burn, buzz to the engine, sit dead center of the engine (something else WC doesn't have. Anyone heard of Jet/Engine Wash?
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), and wait for a large torp to lock on. Or hell, if you want to get really bad ass, just wait til a Devastator mission, sit the 4000 klicks out, and shoot bugs in a barrel.
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Hard. Yeah right.


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Member of the LMG and hating it (Disgruntled Man)
Striking a man down with your blade is clean and honorable. Shooting him in the back from the darkness of an alley and hurrying to blame it on another was something else altogether.--Darth Vader
 
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