EW talks about Starlancer (yeah, I know it's scarry).

[Earthworm]

No sound when guns and missiles hit? You mean they actually decided to go for the realistic no-sound-in-space thing? That's bloody awesome!

Only when your guns hit, not when they fire. At least that's what the review of a beta copy said. And I think it's bloody stupid. A space sim without sound won't work.

24 missions, btw, is more than WC1 had; remember that if you count the way the missions change if you screw up, then the number of missions effectively doubles or triples.

SL's missions are suposed to be linear. If you screw up something in one mission, than it will come back to hunt you later in the game, but it will basicly be the same mission.

And remember that WC1 is 10 years old. You would expect some improvement over time wouldn't you? And with it's add-ons WC1 has around 60 missions.

And as for CGI, I think they mean 22 mins of proper cutscenes. Remember, most of the talking is supposed to be done during the mission, when you certainly won't be looking at CGI.

YAY! One of the main characters will say "Understood sir" When I give them an order.

22 minutes is a very small amount. At least it'll probably be better than FS.

And I realy don't like CGI by the way. At least when it comes to showing people.

Anyway, WC4 may have been filled with cutscenes, but it got pretty darned annoying having to change the CD every five missions

.

You don't have to do that if you have WC4 DVD.

And it's not like you finish 5 missions every ten minutes or so though.

Many times I can't even get through one CD a day because of the lack of time. And because of those cutscnes WC4 has IMO the best story ever in a space sim.

 

[Quarto]

Only when your guns hit, not when they fire. At least that's what the review of a beta copy said. And I think it's bloody stupid. A space sim without sound won't work.

That would be quite correct, since the sound of guns firing would vibrate through the body of your ship. Therefore, you would hear it, but nobody else. As for your last sentence... what the hell? One of these days somebody has to do the original thing and try to put _some_ realism in. I think that not having to worry about external sounds can make it a brilliant game, if only they use it right.

SL's missions are suposed to be linear. If you screw up something in one mission, than it will come back to hunt you later in the game, but it will basicly be the same mission.
And remember that WC1 is 10 years old. You would expect some improvement over time wouldn't you? And with it's add-ons WC1 has around 60 missions.

[Mengsk voice]I don't think you understand...[/Mengsk voice]
They won't just be harder versions of the missions. Well, all right... I have no idea what they'll be. But if they are just harder versions of the normal missions, then the entire Warthog team has no brain.
Anyway, how do you know they won't release some add-ons for SL, too?

YAY! One of the main characters will say "Understood sir" When I give them an order. 22 minutes is a very small amount. At least it'll probably be better than FS.

And I realy don't like CGI by the way. At least when it comes to showing people.

Starcraft used CGI. It had no more than 20 minutes of cutscenes, if even that much. And the briefings consisted of repetitive tiny little animations of people's faces. But those faces and cutscenes were the best ever seen, and the voice acting will never be beaten... frankly, Starcraft had a <gasp> storyline far superior to that of WC4. CGI is not a negative - it's most definitely a positive.

You don't have to do that if you have WC4 DVD.

No, then you get all those 25 missions on one CD... uh... hang on

.

BTW, I think this falls under the category of controversial topics. We'd better tone this down right now

.

 

[Earthworm]

That would be quite correct, since the sound of guns firing would vibrate through the body of your ship. Therefore, you would hear it, but nobody else. As for your last sentence... what the hell? One of these days somebody has to do the original thing and try to put _some_ realism in. I think that not having to worry about external sounds can make it a brilliant game, if only they use it right.

Yes, and all the other things SL is is suposed to have are also very original aren't they?

I don't care about the game having realistic physics, and all that other crap. I love to hear my guns tearing through the hull of an enemy ship.

[Mengsk voice]I don't think you understand...[/Mengsk voice]
They won't just be harder versions of the missions. Well, all right... I have no idea what they'll be. But if they are just harder versions of the normal missions, then the entire Warthog team has no brain.
Anyway, how do you know they won't release some add-ons for SL, too?

I doubt that they'll make an add on. And at least from all the previews it seems that those will be the same missions, that will be affected by your previous actions. For example, if you don't destory a capship, it will appear again few missions later, and either make the mission harder, or completly imposible. It'll still be basicly the same mission.

YAY! One of the main characters will say "Understood sir" When I give them an order. 22 minutes is a very small amount. At least it'll probably be better than FS.

And I realy don't like CGI by the way. At least when it comes to showing people.

Starcraft used CGI. It had no more than 20 minutes of cutscenes, if even that much. And the briefings consisted of repetitive tiny little animations of people's faces. But those faces and cutscenes were the best ever seen, and the voice acting will never be beaten... frankly, Starcraft had a <gasp> storyline far superior to that of WC4.

I didn't play Star Craft, but from what I've seen, games with 20 minutes of cutscenes don't usualy have a good story.

CGI is not a negative - it's most definitely a positive.

It's cheaper. Meaning that we can see more of it, and we can get much more choices during a game. It does however take up more space than FMV, and it doesen't look realisitc. Even the low quality FMV in WC3 or Prophecy looks better than CGI for me.




[This message has been edited by Earthworm (edited March 18, 2000).]

 

[Knight]

I agree with Quarto on this one, the more realism that's in the game, the more fun it is. EW, I'm assuming you know all about space and how you are pretty much deaf up there except for the sounds made directy to you (your suit, ship, stuff like that), so I'll spare you the speech on that EW. Any degree of realism a game brings to the monitor, is well worth it.

On the subject of WCIV vs. SL storyline, How could anyone be so brash and say something so rash? WCIV had not only the best storyline of the series (so far, depends on if we see another single player, or if the MP has a storyline to go along with it), but I dare say it has the best storyline of all space sims. BTW, does anyone know how many missions there were total on WCIV? I've been wondering about that, because I think it's disc 2, disc 3, and disc 5 are the only ones that I felt were left in my 'Rom that much. The rest it felt as though I was through them aweful quickly. I might be wrong on those discs though, as its been a while since I've played.

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[Earthworm]

IMO, not having sound isn't nearly as realistic as I-War is. Actualy not having sound isn't realy that important for people that want realisim. But for me, as someone who heard the Stormfire impacting the hull of ships in WC4, or heard the CMD's disintegrating the enemy in Prophecy, sound is very important.

On the subject of WCIV vs. SL storyline, How could anyone be so brash and say something so rash? WCIV had not only the best storyline of the series (so far, depends on if we see another single player, or if the MP has a storyline to go along with it), but I dare say it has the best storyline of all space sims.

I completly agree.

BTW, does anyone know how many missions there were total on WCIV? I've been wondering about that, because I think it's disc 2, disc 3, and disc 5 are the only ones that I felt were left in my 'Rom that much.

OK, I may be mistaken, but I think these figures are right.
Disk 1: Counting the dogfight with Maniac, 5 missions.
Disk 2: 9 missions, including both paths where you either go to the BW, or stay with Confed. The CD ends when the Lex is disabled/destroyed. Both of the paths you can choose have three missions.
Disk 3: 4-6 missions.
Disk 4: 9-11 missions. Including the choices to go to Circe/Speradon (those sets have 3-4 missions in them, as well as the choice to save Catscratch.
Disk 5: 4-5 missions.
Disk 6: 6 missions. Including the choice to destroy Ella, or go around her.

IIRC, the game has a total of 47-48 missions. Of course when playing through the game, and making different choices, you'll only get to play about 30-34.

I actualy stick prety long on the first disk with those planetary missions. On the crazy level they're very hard to beat.



[This message has been edited by Earthworm (edited March 18, 2000).]

 

[Knight]

IMO, not having sound isn't nearly as realistic as I-War is. Actualy not having sound isn't realy that important for people that want realisim. But for me, as someone who heard the Stormfire impacting the hull of ships in WC4, or heard the CMD's disintegrating the enemy in Prophecy, sound is very important.

Well, maybe not to you, but I love realism in games, space sims especially. But if games get any realer, all those idiots saying that video games are causing school shootings will have some justifications to go with their accusations. But lets not discuss that. Just making a point, I don't want everyone to go off on me over it.

I completly agree.

I'm glad.

OK, I may be mistaken, but I think these figures are right.
Disk 1: Counting the dogfight with Maniac, 5 missions.
Disk 2: 9 missions, including both paths where you either go to the BW, or stay with Confed. The CD ends when the Lex is disabled/destroyed. Both of the paths you can choose have three missions.
Disk 3: 4-6 missions.
Disk 4: 9-11 missions. Including the choices to go to Circe/Speradon (those sets have 3-4 missions in them, as well as the choice to save Catscratch.
Disk 5: 4-5 missions.
Disk 6: 6 missions. Including the choice to destroy Ella, or go around her.

IIRC, the game has a total of 47-48 missions. Of course when playing through the game, and making different choices, you'll only get to play about 30-34.

I actualy stick prety long on the first disk with those planetary missions. On the crazy level they're very hard to beat.

No Kidding.




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Striking a man down with your blade is clean and honorable. Shooting him in the back from the darkness of an alley and hurrying to blame it on another was something else altogether.--Darth Vader

 

[Quarto]

Earthworm says:
Yes, and all the other things SL is is suposed to have are also very original aren't they?

Which is why I'm glad that at least _that_ is original. God knows, they need any originality they can get

.

EW says:
For example, if you don't destory a capship, it will appear again few missions later, and either make the mission harder, or completly imposible. It'll still be basicly the same mission.

I doubt that, since failure could mean between victory and retreat; they pretty much have to consider that. But of course, since they don't bring anything new into gameplay... <shrug>

EW says:
I didn't play Star Craft, but from what I've seen, games with 20 minutes of cutscenes don't usualy have a good story.

StarCraft had the most incredible story ever seen in an RTS, and it conclusively proved that cutscenes are totally irrelevant to the quality of the story. If you haven't seen Starcraft, then go and buy it - you don't know what you're missing.

EW says:
It's cheaper. Meaning that we can see more of it, and we can get much more choices during a game. It does however take up more space than FMV, and it doesen't look realisitc. Even the low quality FMV in WC3 or Prophecy looks better than CGI for me.

That's because you haven't seen the Starcraft CGI. It puts _any_ FMV to shame. It is brilliant, brilliant, and even more brilliant. You haven't truly lived until you've seen Zerglings skittering through the wasted cities of Aiur, and Marines getting oblitterated by Hydralisks. But then, Blizzard had always done incredible things with CGI, have they not? Even Warcraft II had great CGI. So please, EW, don't talk any more about the low quality of CGI until you've seen StarCraft.
I think I'm gonna have to go and replay Starcraft now. See what you've done?

Do you realise how much time that's gonna take?

 

[KrisV]

I agree with Quarto on this one, the more realism that's in the game, the more fun it is. EW, I'm assuming you know all about space and how you are pretty much deaf up there except for the sounds made directy to you (your suit, ship, stuff like that), so I'll spare you the speech on that EW. Any degree of realism a game brings to the monitor, is well worth it.

And the five people that bought I-war totally agree.

 

[Quarto]

Five? From what I heard, I-War was - and is - quite popular.

 

[Earthworm]

The fact is Quarto, that the realism in I-War killed it for many new players. Maybe there's 10 people that were playing it, but that's not likely

Even if it is popular, it doesen't have as many fans as WC.

[This message has been edited by Earthworm (edited March 19, 2000).]

 

[Earthworm]

That's because you haven't seen the Starcraft CGI. It puts _any_ FMV to shame. It is brilliant, brilliant, and even more brilliant. You haven't truly lived until you've seen Zerglings skittering through the wasted cities of Aiur, and Marines getting oblitterated by Hydralisks. But then, Blizzard had always done incredible things with CGI, have they not? Even Warcraft II had great CGI. So please, EW, don't talk any more about the low quality of CGI until you've seen StarCraft.
I think I'm gonna have to go and replay Starcraft now. See what you've done?

Do you realise how much time that's gonna take?

OK, I'll try to get SC, I think I saw it in a store few days ago. However, CGI, though isn't of low quality, just doesne't look realistic enough.

AND STOP PLAYING STARCRAFT! THIS IS A WC BB, AND THOU SHALL NOT PLAY ANYTHING OTHER THAN WC, OR TALK ABOUT PLAYING ANYTHING OTHER THAN WC.

NOW, OBEY!

 

[Knight]

The fact is Quarto, that the realism in I-War killed it for many new players. Maybe there's 10 people that were playing it, but that's not likely

Even if it is popular, it doesen't have as many fans as WC.

[This message has been edited by Earthworm (edited March 19, 2000).]

Key word there, "new players" (ok, words), those seasoned vets of WC, SW, etc. should have thought it to be at least interesting, as you're not just some fighter jock in it, I mean, come on, my 9 year old niece can play WC, (not insulting the game, just saying, plus she's almost as good a pilot as me), but could she do the complex thinking that Iwar requires? If anyone didn't like Iwar, that was probably the key right there, it requires thinking, just as many games today are going to. Alot of people don't want to have to think to have fun, but for those of us that are more.....how should I say....adept to thinking, the game made for some very interesting game play. (Though, I really can't talk, because I've played about 5 missions on it, on my friend's computer, because a P200 and a Banshee just wouldn't quite get playable framerates on it.

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Striking a man down with your blade is clean and honorable. Shooting him in the back from the darkness of an alley and hurrying to blame it on another was something else altogether.--Darth Vader

 

[Knight]

AND STOP PLAYING STARCRAFT! THIS IS A WC BB, AND THOU SHALL NOT PLAY ANYTHING OTHER THAN WC, OR TALK ABOUT PLAYING ANYTHING OTHER THAN WC.

NOW, OBEY!

You're the one that brought it up, so quit trying to kill it

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HTML Assistant: WC Space Command
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Striking a man down with your blade is clean and honorable. Shooting him in the back from the darkness of an alley and hurrying to blame it on another was something else altogether.--Darth Vader

 

[Earthworm]

Key word there, "new players" (ok, words), those seasoned vets of WC, SW, etc. should have thought it to be at least interesting, as you're not just some fighter jock in it,

But that's exactly what we want. WC isn't about comanding a capship, or a fleet. You fly fighters, and that's all I need.

I mean, come on, my 9 year old niece can play WC, (not insulting the game, just saying, plus she's almost as good a pilot as me),

The age doesne't realy matter. It's more a question of experience. My brother who's 16 realy sucks at WC, because he never played a space sim in his life. And actualy anyone can play WC. But can the surviwe and win?

but could she do the complex thinking that Iwar requires?

It doesen't require that much complex thinking though. Someone that's over 14 should be able to play it.

If anyone didn't like Iwar, that was probably the key right there, it requires thinking, just as many games today are going to.

It sure as hell wasn't what scared me away. IMO there were many little anoying things in it. For example, the com window. When someone comunicated with you I just wanted to cry because that was so ugly.
The realistic engie. I just wasn't used to it, and it realy screwed up the fun of the game for me.


[This message has been edited by Earthworm (edited March 19, 2000).]

 

[Knight]

Do you ever reply to a post without those quotes? Ever time you do that you just make loading times that much longer.

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Striking a man down with your blade is clean and honorable. Shooting him in the back from the darkness of an alley and hurrying to blame it on another was something else altogether.--Darth Vader

 

[Earthworm]

Sure I do, for example this post.
However, how are you, or anyone else going to know to which think I'm replaying? The quotes make it easier.

 

[Quarto]

AND STOP PLAYING STARCRAFT! THIS IS A WC BB, AND THOU SHALL NOT PLAY ANYTHING OTHER THAN WC, OR TALK ABOUT PLAYING ANYTHING OTHER THAN WC. NOW, OBEY!

[Arcturus Mengsk voice]I will play StarCraft, or see this board burnt to ashes around me![/Arcturus Mengsk voice]

Trust me Earthworm - if you like any sort of RTS, you will absolutely love StarCraft. You may just end up forgetting about WC for a while... but that's a risk you have to take.

 

[Nob Akimoto]

Hmm not to try and insult anyone......

But it seems like every "die-hard" WC fan is getting into the "We did it first so everyone else is a copycat" type mentality over newer games....rather shallow.

So Starlancer won't be 100% original. It's part of a Wing Commander "mold" so to speak. So what? It'll have multiplayer(something sorely lacking in recent WCs, and don't even mention POL or WOL, they don't officially exist yet, nor will they be freely playable), a different form of storytelling via missions, and not just through cutscenes but rather through in flight events(no SO didn't really do it, it was "fly through nav points blasting all the bugs and then watch Spyder and crew talk about stuff before you land"), a truly multiplayerable campaign system, which hasn't really been used since Balance of Power(it was fun, and still is to fly those missions.....) Don't judge anything till it's out, unless of course you've got something to fear....

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"I hope you make it, Tarkington. Just don't pull the handle till after we've hit. Promise me."
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-Captain Jacob Lee "Coolhand" Grafton, and Lieutenant Robert "Toad" Tarkington, Final Flight

 

[Earthworm]

But it seems like every "die-hard" WC fan is getting into the "We did it first so everyone else is a copycat" type mentality over newer games....rather shallow.

Why? From what is known about SL from the DA hype, SL won't have anything new. It even has ships that look like WC ships. There's a Dralthi, a Crossbow, and some capships look like capships from the movie.

So what? It'll have multiplayer(something sorely lacking in recent WCs, and don't even mention POL or WOL, they don't officially exist yet, nor will they be freely playable),

Just because POL won't be for free doesen't mean anything. We know it's coming, and we know it'll be better than any kind of MP SL will have.

a different form of storytelling via missions, and not just through cutscenes but rather through in flight events(no SO didn't really do it, it was "fly through nav points blasting all the bugs and then watch Spyder and crew talk about stuff before you land"),

Actualy that talking was the story. What do you think SL will have during those missions? Yes sir? No sir, I won't kamikaze into that ship, I'm not suicidal? Or by talking about what's happening around you. SO did tell the story during the game, and that's a fact.

Don't judge anything till it's out, unless of course you've got something to fear....

Except that from all the hype from DA, and I assume it's only the stuff that DA wants us to hear

, SL wont' bring anything new, and will be a copy of other good space sims.

That story telling through missions, missions that are affected by previous actions have all been seen in WC.

 

[Knight]

So what? It'll have multiplayer(something sorely lacking in recent WCs, and don't even
mention POL or WOL, they don't officially exist yet, nor will they be freely playable),

Good point. But as good as it may be, there's no point in argueing, because there seem to be too many that think giving money away is ok.

==========

Just because POL won't be for free doesen't mean anything. We know it's coming, and we know it'll be better than any kind of MP SL will have.

That's the biggest overestimate I've ever heard. We barely know anything about either game, and you won't even consider playing SL, becaues its a WC copy (tell me, what game that takes place in space didn't originate from WC?), so how can you make a statement like that? Never count your chickens before they hatch. I don't want POL to flop because that probably would spell the end of WC, but I'd rather see something like DFS2 or SL, where its SP, with MP built in, and the MP carried by an online setup like heat.net or something similar, but since I'll just get flamed for saying that, and probably the rest of the stuff I was going to say, I'm going to shut up.

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Striking a man down with your blade is clean and honorable. Shooting him in the back from the darkness of an alley and hurrying to blame it on another was something else altogether.--Darth Vader