Dreadnougts

[Primarch]

ISD's in X-Wing Alliance are ridiculously easy to take out. Only two passes in an X-Wing and you can kill both of the shield generators (unless of course you fly on hard...where I've been told you can't destroy them at all).
The Victory Class SD is harder to destroy, because it has turrets on the bridge tower, making runs quite dangerous, though not impossible if you take advantage of the AI's lack of making high angle deflection shots

The Executer Class SSD is the most fun (and also the most boring) to take out. Once you have killed the shield towers (avoiding the turrets on the bridge tower), you spend a long 45 minutes straffing up and down the hull...but it's worth it in the end because you gain 25,000 points!!!
The only Capital Ships I have never managed to destroy in XWA are the Lancer and Modified Nebulon B Class Frigates, mainly because they put extremely large amounts of Turbo Lasers on those fairly small hulls...

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'It's not the voices in my head that bother me, its the voices in your head that do...'

Wing Commander - Secret Ops Missions
The Fanfiction Archives
New British Empire

 

[Quarto]

That's nice, Primarch, but we're talking about the original X-Wing.

Shane: Must have been a really rainy, boring sunday afternoon

.

 

[Death's Head]

3 fire-linked topedo shots, maybe. Those Neb-bs arn't too tough, I took one in an A-W. Lancers are the spawn of hell to fighters. Wouldn't it be wonderful if WC capships were so easy to take out?

 

[Chernikov]

The only thing I have found more difficult to take out than the Lancers are the capships in WC2, and only under certain situations. Like the AMG-shooting ones... The problem with the lancers is that they are so freakin small, and the gun range is so much better than yours that you can only snap off a couple of shots that you know will hit before a starfighter wing worth of lasers starts chewing into you. Get between the "arms" and start dumbfiring torps. BTW, for those who are having trouble with the SD, dumbfire torps are the best way to go. Let loose with a burst of quad laser or two, and dumbfire a pair at point blank, repeat on the other tower without the lasers, get just out of laser range, and come back in on an extended strafing run (quadfiring lasers to balance firepower/dodge) They should fall after the second pass unless your aim bites. In WC4, the ships are so freakin big you cant miss (the light destroyer being the only major problem. The thing shoots my hind end off, then runs over me like a MAC truck. Not fair.)

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You deal death with your roars and your screams, your threats, your taunts, your overblown ego. I hand it out, one with the steel and the silence, the blackness around me, with a thought.

 

[Primarch]

That's nice, Primarch, but we're talking about the original X-Wing.

Uhuh...well, that nice too, but since I didn't play the original X-Wing and there have been several mentions of XWA I'd thought I'd put my 2 pence in anyway.

Those Neb-bs arn't too tough

I agree, 6 dumbfired torps will sink one no trouble. Unfortunatly the Mod Neb B is a wee bit tougher and you never encounter one when you have torps.

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'...I was fabulous, and it was a bloody good laugh!!'

Wing Commander - Secret Ops Missions
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[Primarch, watch the graphics. Play nice, or not at all. - Death]

[This message has been edited by Death (edited August 05, 2000).]

 

[Death's Head]

Aye, lancers have a range of 3.5km last I checked with those Double Empire mounted on the laser towers. In Rebellion, those things can handle a full wing of fighters(72). Modified Frigates are actually well armed, they had 2km Super Empire lasers in XWA(not to be confused with the DS Super Laser). Those pylons gave it good firing arcs. Once you took out the Neb-b's shield generator, it was a siting duck, not so with the Mod. neb-b.

[This message has been edited by Death's Head (edited August 05, 2000).]

 

[Chernikov]

Correct me if im wrong, but did I see 72 fighters in a NEB-B FRIGATE? Even the modifited Neb (which I believe is either the Lancer or the Neb with a missile launcher) has room for no more than a squadron of defence fighters. The Star destroyer and the MonCals are the only ships I know of that can carry that number of starfighters.

As for the six torps, primarch, those were for the SD towers. If you try something like that against a Nebulon or a Lancer, the sheer concentration of firepower will usually take the torps out, dumbfire or no. However, if you were able to get one or two through than it usually helped extremely.

 

[Knight]

I believe it was in Shadows of the Empire, where Vader does a strike on a supposidly Rebel base, (it's not though

), and finds a captured Neb-B frigate, which was originally intended to carry TIEs, but had been adapted to rebel fighters and had a capacity of near that. It seemed they gave a kill count somewhere, and it was somewhere in that area.

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Member of the LMG and hating it (Disgruntled Man)
Real heros wear SCBAs, not capes.--Me.

 

[Chernikov]

72 fighters kill count off of the entire base perhaps, but take a look at the size of the starfighters and the size of the frigate. Even the Millenium Falcon, which is at most four times the size of a starfighter, is forced to dock on the outside of the frigate. There is simply not enough room in a ship that size for 72 starfighters, unless you took them apart, turned most of the interior into open storage space (inefficient in a ship of that shape) and packed them in tightly. Add to that the apparent lack of a docking bay in the CANON films and you have problems with trying to dock a starfighter with them. The Lancer might be a different story but not by much.

 

[Death's Head]

Nebulan series frigates carry 24 fighters when not fitted for specialized roles like rescue, medical frigate, ect. Lancers frigates do not carry fighters at all. They can engage a full wing (in Rebellon) and expect to win. Medium and heavy warships make short work or a Lancer in ship to ship combat. While the Nebs can take on one or maybe two fighters squads, they are equally, if not better suited to taking on large warships. Approximately 3 Neb-bs and a mix of A-W, X-W, and Y-Ws (72 total) can meet an ISD and its TIEs on roughly equal or better terms.

 

[Primarch]

If you try something like that against a Nebulon or a Lancer, the sheer concentration of firepower will usually take the torps out, dumbfire or no.

Not necessarily, at least in XWA. The simple tactic is to order one of your wingmen to play nicely with the Frigate (distracting it) while you sneak up behind it and dumbfire them up the rear (which has the least amount of weapons cover). Against a Lancer however you would be wasting your time. In fact I usually stay well clear of those little buggers.
As for using the torps on the shield towers...I personally do not like wasting them unless I have to, and two passes at most will take out any shield tower apart from the SSD's which need four.

Even the modifited Neb (which I believe is either the Lancer or the Neb with a missile launcher) has room for no more than a squadron of defence fighters.

Believe it or not, but the Modified Neb B is actually a good 100 meters shorter than the original...come to think of it, why do they call it a Modified Neb B, apart from a passing resembelance, it is a virtually new ship design.

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[Wedge009]

Hmm, as much as I like Star Wars, I believe this is suppose to be about WC...

Does anyone see the Midway being completely designed around the Kraken's plasma weapon? Funny to think of Blair as an capship designer too, when his real love was for fighters. At least in my opinion.

Speaking of big guns, before I became informed by the many posts from the experts here, I thought it was funny how a Plunkett cruiser had those massive guns when the Midway only had relatively puny laser turrets. Of course, I understand now that the Midway relies mostly on fighters for its defence, but didn't Rachel mention ion cannons for capship 'slugfests'?

A pity there isn't too many cases of capship battles... does anyone notice in cutscene where the Midway uses the plasma weapon, when Casey races back to the Midway, there plasma weapon seems to disappear? Of course, Casey is shown flying in a Devastator instead of a Vampire in the final sequence... makes me think that wormhole mission was a last-minute change.

 

[Knight]

Hmm, as much as I like Star Wars, I believe this is suppose to be about WC...

We usually have something called topic drifts. They are quite frequent, and always interesting, depending on your point of view.

Does anyone see the Midway being completely designed around the Kraken's plasma weapon? Funny to think of Blair as an capship designer too, when his real love was for fighters. At least in my opinion.

No, I don't, because if you would read some of the technical info on the Midway, it was designed so that each side operates independantly of each other. Also, Blair would make a good cap-ship designer, 'cause as many as he's blown-up/has seen blown up, he knows where the weak points are, etc.

Speaking of big guns, before I became informed by the many posts from the experts here, I thought it was funny how a Plunkett cruiser had those massive guns when the Midway only had relatively puny laser turrets. Of course, I understand now that the Midway relies mostly on fighters for its defence, but didn't Rachel mention ion cannons for capship 'slugfests'?

Just because it says 'slugfests, doesn't mean it's going to be an offensive manuver, at least not necessarily. Two carriers going at it aren't going to do much damage to each other, the fighters do that. More of a defensive armament, rather than an offensive armament. The Plunketts were made to go head to head with other capships, that's their job. The Midway's were designed to be the center of a fleet, or a mobile operations base if you will.

A pity there isn't too many cases of capship battles... does anyone notice in cutscene where the Midway uses the plasma weapon, when Casey races back to the Midway, there plasma weapon seems to disappear? Of course, Casey is shown flying in a Devastator instead of a Vampire in the final sequence... makes me think that wormhole mission was a last-minute change.

Did you see Casey in the cockpit of that fighter or something? 'Cause I think I missed something if you did. Which mission are you talking about the plasma 'dissappearing'? Oh, and rather than think of why 'Casey's flying a Devastator instead of a Vampire, think of what Dekker said. When the Midway hears that there's a big,

...and I mean BIG

enemy fleet approaching the other side of the gate, you think they will take it lightly and go unprepared? That's a laugh. They're going to put everything they have available out there, and everything else will probably go on Ready-5.

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Member of the LMG and hating it (Disgruntled Man)
Real heros wear SCBAs, not capes.--Me.

[This message has been edited by Knight (edited August 12, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by Knight (edited August 12, 2000).]

 

[Wedge009]

I stand corrected, thanks for the info Knight. Of course I do remember Rachel going on about the lauch bays being independent in the manual, all I meant was that the whole appearance of the Midway looks as if it was designed around the plasma gun. Also, any clue as to what that big chunk of ship that sticks out behind the bridge on the Midway is or does?

 

[Knight]

Holds the 1500 man Marine Expeditionary Unit, three full squadrons of pilots, and the Midway's crew, totaling some 6000 people. All those people, and the supplies they require, takes up alot of space. Each half of the long portion of hte Midway holds 126 fighters (or is my understanding, so they can't hold anybody, plus they also hold that track system and the start of the launch tubes. The part towards the rear center and upwards a bit is where I'm guessing all the different divisions are, (technical, tacticle, science, engineering, etc.)

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Member of the LMG and hating it (Disgruntled Man)
Real heros wear SCBAs, not capes.--Me.

 

[Penguin]

Knight: I think the Midway is a bit bigger than you think. Keep in mind that 1.8km length isn't exactly what you'd call short and they do have multiple decks.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

Amazingly (according to the man who designed the ship model) the Midway was designed without knowing that the plot would require a larger plasma weapon -- the huge crystal was made to fit the existing ship, not vice versa.

The Devestator wasn't Casey's... Apparently the animation had to be done before the actual missions were planned -- and the guy who did that sequence also happened to be the man who designed the Devestator model. Not knowing what Casey would be flying, he gave us a beauty shot of his creation.

 

[Knight]

Knight: I think the Midway is a bit bigger than you think. Keep in mind that 1.8km length isn't exactly what you'd call short and they do have multiple decks.

Yeah, I know how big it is, it's 1.125 miles long. Those 6 launch tubes take up a larger portion than you think, not to mention that damn loading system we see everytime we launch (unless you hit Esc

), plus landing bays, machine shops, parts storage (which I'd say is exceptionally large, considering all the mods that were made during that duration of the game), a shit load of missles and fuel, lets not forget fuel. Can you imagine how much of the Midway was devoted to liquid storage? Between water, fuel, misc drinks, I'd say alot. What I ment by supplies, Penguin, is water, food, fuel, liquor (

), etc. Yeah, I'd say that I have a fairly good understanding of the Midway's size.

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Member of the LMG and hating it (Disgruntled Man)
Real heros wear SCBAs, not capes.--Me.

 

[Vondoom]

Actually if the Midway uses M/AM, her fuel storage wouldn't be that great. Even if the ship used fusion instead it would require nearly 100 times more fuel because differences in efficency.

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There is no God but myself. No destiny but what I deem for me. I walk my path and no others, for I am free.

 

[Knight]

Well, if all the figters were Dragons with M/aM plants, wouldn't be that bad, would it? All those missions you fly in WCP, plus the constant patrols, the figters are going to suck the gas. I'd say the fuel storage for the figters is more than for the ship itself, since I'm fairly certain it is M/aM.

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Member of the LMG and hating it (Disgruntled Man)
Real heros wear SCBAs, not capes.--Me.