WWII Capital Ships

Quarto said:
Hmm, well, that's actually rather questionable :p.
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I'd be willing to bet that the design process for the Vesuvius began during the war - though ultimately not even that was finalized until after the surrender (since it incorporated various captured Kilrathi technologies).
 
Quarto said:
Hmm, well, that's actually rather questionable :p.
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Very, since they didn't come out for a few years after the war and they seemed to be more geared towards replacing the aging fleet of concordia class carriers
 
Battleship was really made obselete by the Aircraft Carrier in World War II. As for your claim that the Midway was designed as a World War II ship...well I'd like to send you about six books about the design of the ships and how they were incorporated but I'll settle by saying that the Essex class carriers were never built the same - nor for normal reasons but because as the war progressed new things were learned about Aircraft carriers that allowed that paticular ship class to evolve as THE World War II Era Carrier.

The Midway was designed with several significant changes, no one would ever mistake it for a World War II Carrier. I would argue that it was built as a POST World War II Era Carrier, including all of the design changes learned from the combat of World War II, but it wasn't built to combat the Japanese or German fleets it was built to project power into the next century.

Further if you continue to exam the lists of ships developed by the US Navy only three Midway-class Carriers entered service, out of the 77 fleet carriers that were proposed for service in the US Navy.

This would also be a good time to reference this:
http://www.geocities.com/patrolgroup511/carrier.html

Note the number of Essex and Independence (Later reclassified from fleet carrier to Light Carrier) produced during the war, as opposed to the number of Midway produce total.

Obviously the design of the Midway was so lacking it didn't even see production in the post war, as the Navy shifted over to nuclear power, like the Enterprise class.

If you really want to argue that the Midway design classifies as World War II because it incorpates things learned during the war, then I'd like to argue that the USS Ronald Reagan should be put on your list, for the very same reason.

As for the poll...well, picking ships that are your personal favorites and putting them on the list, while leaving out significant others doesn't seem the way to run a poll to me.

[EDIT]
Regarding the San Francisco:

San Francisco
New Oreleans-Class
Commissioned on 10 February 1934
Displacement 9,950 Tons, Dimensions, 588' 0" (oa) x 61' 9" x 22' 6" (Max

Portland
Portland-class
commissioned 23 February 1933
Displacement 9,950 Tons, Dimensions, 610' 3" (oa) x 66' 1" x 24' (Max)

Indianapolis
Portland-class
Commissioned 15 NOV 1932
Displacement 9,950 Tons, Dimensions, 610' 3" (oa) x 66' 1" x 24' (Max)
 
Uh, I too could copy directly from a website or Janes Fighting Ships of World War II. I have written my previous posts from memory, and I was surprisingly accurate.

Secondly, I am not arguing, I am asking everyone's opinion. My personal favorites are mine, not yours. Sorry if it offends you that I didn't include any of the Essex or Independence class Carriers on my favorite ship list. The Portland is number one simply because a good friend of mine was a signalman on the signal bridge during most of her night engagements with Japanese battleships, cruisers and destroyers.

Obviously the design of the Midway was so lacking it didn't even see production in the post war, as the Navy shifted over to nuclear power, like the Enterprise class
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Actually, the Enterprise didn't commission until the 60s. You seem to be forgetting the conventional carriers that the Midway-class was essentially the design bed for including the proposed USS United States, the Forrestal class, the Kitty Hawk class, and the improved Kitty Hawk class USS John F. Kennedy.

But this is just a casual survey for people that may have an interest in WWII ships not for people obsessed with the topic, like us. I am not here to debate naval strategy or design philosophy with you.
 
Oh boy...I think you missed half my post! The design bed for the Midway was the Essex. The Essex is THE World War II Era carrier. Not some design they only built three of.

Now, since you want to bring up the other classes...let's go ahead and do that. These are the carrier numbers commissined after World War II, by Class:

Essex - 6
Midway - 3
Saipan - 2
Forrestal - 4
Kitty Hawk - 3
Enterprise - 1
John F Kennedy - 1
Nimtz - 9.5

Not to mention the 20 or so Essex class ships developed during the war. I think those numbers speak for themselves.

Clearly the fact that the Essex is the most produced fleet carrier, and the only carrier type to continue production AFTER World War II say something about which carrier should represent the World War II Era.
 
Well it is plainly obvious that I didn't get my point across to you. Since it would seem that neither one of us is going to convince the other of anything, we should drop it and allow the other members of the forum to express what their FAVORITE (not most important or most effective) ships of the war were.

As for the poll...well, picking ships that are your personal favorites and putting them on the list, while leaving out significant others doesn't seem the way to run a poll to me.
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Then don't answer it. Start your own thread.
 
Jason_Ryock said:
Clearly the fact that the Essex is the most produced fleet carrier, and the only carrier type to continue production AFTER World War II say something about which carrier should represent the World War II Era.
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Enterprise(CV-6) on her own had 7 more battlestars than the next closest carrier in the US Navy.(Essex, CV-9)And by virtue the only reason the Essex class stayed in production was because they'd laid down so many keels to begin with, it was just more economically viable to finish off the ships. Most went to the bone yard within a year or two of commissioning.) With 911 fighter kills and 263 shipping kills, The Big-E definitely is the representative carrier for the period, simply given her reputation and successes.

My fav classes would probably be:
Hood Beautiful ship, even if she had a rather abrupt ending.
Shimakaze 40 knot destroyer before they were fashionable.

And of course...

Yamato
 
Technically there was a Midway during World War II ... at least until 1944, when she was renamed the St. Lo, and a few months afterward fell victim to a kamikaze attack.
 
I have never heard of the Stalin. Do you have any reference website links?
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You never heard of it because there wasn't one. Under Siege is a fictional movie, and furthermore doesn't take place during WWII.

And in other news, the USS Constitution is being refitted with a vertical launch system so she may sail off the coast of Afghanistan and deliver Tomahawk cruise missiles to those bad Talibans.
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And despite the obvious physical imposibilities... it would still be more powerful than anything in the aresenal of the Taliban.
 
You never heard of it because there wasn't one. Under Siege is a fictional movie, and furthermore doesn't take place during WWII.
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Climber had originally posted that a Russian ship, the Stalin, was being built in World War II and that she would have been bigger and better than the Iowa-class Battleships. Climber couldn't remember the class name and referenced the movie Under Siege which featured the USS Missouri, an Iowa-class Battleship. I don't think the movie ever mentions anything about a Stalin, built in WWII or other wise.

I myself have never heard of anything like that. That doesn't mean that it couldn't have existed, but the Soviet Union in World War II was borrowing American and British warships (i.e. some of the Omaha-class Light Cruisers and Royal Oak-class Battleships), It seems unlikely that they had the resources avaliable to lay down a state-of-the-art Fast Battleship.
 
Nob Akimoto said:
Enterprise(CV-6) on her own had 7 more battlestars than the next closest carrier in the US Navy.(Essex, CV-9)And by virtue the only reason the Essex class stayed in production was because they'd laid down so many keels to begin with, it was just more economically viable to finish off the ships. Most went to the bone yard within a year or two of commissioning.) With 911 fighter kills and 263 shipping kills, The Big-E definitely is the representative carrier for the period, simply given her reputation and successes.

My fav classes would probably be:
Hood Beautiful ship, even if she had a rather abrupt ending.
Shimakaze 40 knot destroyer before they were fashionable.

And of course...

Yamato
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Clearly you missed that we were not comparing the USS Enterprise and the USS Essex but the Essex CLASS as a whole.
 
I never brought the Essex-class into this at all. This thread was a general survey. You are the one that seems to be pushing the Essex-class theme. I do personally prefer the Essex-class Carriers to any other carriers of the war (not one lost in combat), but I don't feel that they have the same character as some of the other ships like Enterprise CV-6 and Lexington CV-2 (although she was lost in the Coral Sea).
 
Jason_Ryock said:
I think I'd prefer the Essex or the Yorktown class, and just a suggestion: You may want to revise your post to include those classes. The Midway Ships didn't come online until after WWII...they were laid down around 1943 and came out in 1944 or '45.
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Yes...the Enterprise, a Yorktown Class. I think you need to decide if this thread is about ship class or about specific ships. Because your first post implies that it's about ship classes and all you've done since then is talk about which ships specifically you like.

The reason that I do not feel the Yorktown class is representative as a carrier of the WWII era as a whole is because the Yorktown fleet carriers were designed and laid down before the war, as opposed to the Essex-classes which was constantly evolving as the war took place.
 
Jason_Ryock said:
Yes...the Enterprise, a Yorktown Class. I think you need to decide if this thread is about ship class or about specific ships. Because your first post implies that it's about ship classes and all you've done since then is talk about which ships specifically you like.
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Or maybe you need to read his first post again, because he most definitely does not imply that it's about ship classes :p.
 
Canada's # 1 Ship

My fav ship is the Canadian Tribal class destroyer H.M.C.S. Haida. She's the last of her kind but she's famous for sinking 20 enemy ships, including 7 U-Boats. She never lost a battle in her entire career.
 
heh the best ships by far were the ones unseen. The United states Silent Service accounting for the 30% of all japanese ships sunk in WW2 they were also the smallest force. The submarines will always outdo the largest of carriers the most heavily armored battleships reason being is, your most dangerous enemy is the one u cant see

ETSN (SU) Busby United States Navy Submarine Force

PS ill get the names and stats of some of the subs that fought in WW2

and here is a story of present day.
a submarine whose name I cant say was going on an excersice against the Battle Group Enterprise consisting of 4 CGs (guided missile cruisers) and one CVN the enterprise duh. Each side was supposed to take the other out battlegroup of 5 ships vs the one LA class attack submarine. The carrier group *under the command of an admiral with lots of shinny stars* ordered that the sub needs to make more noise so that they can at least attempt to find it. of coarse they have to comply there CO being only a meager CDR. The LA Class attack sub took out each escort one by one till all that was left was the CVN. The Sub saying that they had a targeting solution but the CVN said no they diddnt...... *the Enterprise Battle group had held a record of not being sunk by a sub in excersize for 5 years* so the sub kept tracking and saying we have u, with the carrier going no u dont.... so finnally the sub gets fed up and pulls up right next to the CVN and launches a signal flare up on her flight deck and saying over teh radio WE HAVE U. this story re-inforces the fact that there are only two types of ships in the oceans today....... Subs....... and Targets....... god I love my submarines
 
And don't forget that the US only captured ONE U-Boat and it was towards the end of the end. Whatever U-571 says
 
ok here we go best ship of them all the USS Flasher SS 249 sank more tonnage of ships than any other sub in WW2 accounting for 132383 tons of ships the conning tower of this boat now sits at teh WW2 sub memorial in groton conn with a wall listing the 3500 men who died in subs during ww2
 
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