What if theories!

DyNaMiX

Spaceman
Hi all.
Just thought I'd get some discussion going about certain things that could have changed and altered the history of Wing Commander.
For example, When the TCS Tiger's Claw made an attack on K'tithrak Mang, what if she was successful and destroyed the star base thus crippling the Kilrathi command in the Enigma sector?

Once discussion has concluded on this particular 'what if' theory, we can discuss other ones such as:
-What if the TCS Tiger's Claw was never destroyed?
-What if the TCS Concordia never came under attack near Caernavon station thus allowing Maverick to meet up with the carrier and soon serve onboard?
-What if Hobbes never defected?
-Make one up yourself! :cool:

For the first topic. I beleive if the Tiger's Claw was not destroyed by stealth fighters and was able to make it to K'tithrak Mang, they may have been able to destroy the starbase (at a cost that would nearly include the carrier itself, heck even most of the crew) but the blow would be astonishing. With the recent loss of a headquarters in the Vega Sector, and now a loss on the Enigma sector, the Kilrathi forces would become scattered and perhaps find themselves flushed out of these systems entirely. Perhaps not entirely but enough to not post a threat to the local Confederation forces in these sectors. The Kilrathi's main forces (such as the Emporer and Prince Thrakath and their fleets) would have to relocate their command posts all the way back to Kilrah thus making it more difficult to control forces when their forces are on the front lines and they are right at the back of the action. Because of this disruption of Kilrathi command, Confederation forces may have been able to overcome the crippled Kilrathi and thus end the war years, perhaps even decades sooner than it did. If not, at least with less losses, such as the battle of earth or the destruction of honoured carriers like the Concordia. Perhaps even the Behemoth would still have been around.
 
who knows? mayb in an ironic twist, confed would have lost the war if the tiger's claw was successful...

maybe such battlefield successes would have spelt the death of last-ditch desperation measures like the templor bomb, and to a lesser extent the behemoth, before they were even hatched.

the war could have possibly lasted much longer... perhaps another false armistace would have eventuated... maybe blair would have been KIA in the star base attack and would have never returned to deliver the deathstroke to the kilrathi empire... who knows... i dont think u could fully conclude such possibilities... just dismiss it as mere conjecture...

about the behemoth... i dont think it ever had a chance in the script, nor should it... a massive gun blowing shit up just aint fun.. but would perhaps make nice cutscenes... besides, after the first planet test.. the kilrathi would have known anyway and flocked to defeat it.. a single ship like that would not have had a chance, even properly armoured...
 
This is good stuff. :cool:
I prefer opposing opinions too as it broadens all the possibilities that could have happened. It's interesting to see the ideas as to what would have happened if the attack was unsuccessful.
 
Then someone who didnt know how to use The Force would have had to kick Kitty instead.

The Force = several thousand rabid fans playing the game, and all their "mojo" acting on the character? :p
 
Hmm. Enigma was certainly a do or die sector with regards to Confed - they had to maintain control over Enigma or the Kilrathi would gain the ability to open new fronts at Sol, Vega and Argent... and to strike from behind at Deneb. If Confed loses, the Kilrathi can end the war - but if the Kilrathi are pushed out, there is very little immediate loss.

The Confederation takes the 'hub' of Ghorah Khar, destroying the starbase in a sneak attack. The two spoke colonies, K'arakh and Trk'Harna, will quickly fall. As in the 'normal' timeline, the Kilrathi at Ghorah Khar are provoked into revolting - pausing Thrakhath's stealth fighter programme. The Kilrathi dig in and wait for the inevitable assault at Rarkath. The final Kilrathi colony, an important PR victory for Confed, falls with a significant loss of life among ground troops who must fight for every meter of ground.

Prince Thrakhath must now reconsider his strategy. His original plans called for opening another major front in the Enigma Sector, utilizing his stealth fighters to take the black hole and divide the Confederation. This is now a pipe dream - without K'Tithrak Mang and its surrounding colonies, he has no beachead in the sector. The planned offensive is cancelled - Heaven's Gate and other nearby systems remain in Confed's hands. The war must now be fought on the front lines: with offensive actions in the Vega, Epislon and Gemini sectors.

The key here is that there is no 'pause' in the war as there was in the real timeline - Thrakhath does not believe he can capture Enigma, so he does not 'shut down' the war while the Strakha is redeveloped. Traditional offensives are launched with the goal of capturing systems like Perry, Epsilon Prime and Kurasawa. A replay of the original Wing Commander ensues - with a bloody fought stalemate between the two sides. Kilrathi numbers and technology continue to improve...
 
What if.....

-There was a Mirror Universe version, the Confederation is in every corner of the galaxy, unless you are Terran you are the prey, the Kilrathi work underground and the only one that can save them is The Heart of the Tiger......but it's not Blair!

-Tolwyn succeeded in his Black Ops forces and it carried over to Prophecy????

-Maniac dropped the bomb on Kilrah AND got the chick of his choice at the end of WC III???? (shudder)

-Blair gets captured on board the Black Ops base and it's up to Panther and Hawk with the Marines to break him out?

-There was a sequel made for the Wing Commander movie where it's based off the events of WC II?
 
Bandit LOAF said:
Hmm. Enigma was certainly a do or die sector with regards to Confed - they had to maintain control over Enigma or the Kilrathi would gain the ability to open new fronts at Sol, Vega and Argent... and to strike from behind at Deneb. If Confed loses, the Kilrathi can end the war - but if the Kilrathi are pushed out, there is very little immediate loss.

The Confederation takes the 'hub' of Ghorah Khar, destroying the starbase in a sneak attack. The two spoke colonies, K'arakh and Trk'Harna, will quickly fall. As in the 'normal' timeline, the Kilrathi at Ghorah Khar are provoked into revolting - pausing Thrakhath's stealth fighter programme. The Kilrathi dig in and wait for the inevitable assault at Rarkath. The final Kilrathi colony, an important PR victory for Confed, falls with a significant loss of life among ground troops who must fight for every meter of ground.

Prince Thrakhath must now reconsider his strategy. His original plans called for opening another major front in the Enigma Sector, utilizing his stealth fighters to take the black hole and divide the Confederation. This is now a pipe dream - without K'Tithrak Mang and its surrounding colonies, he has no beachead in the sector. The planned offensive is cancelled - Heaven's Gate and other nearby systems remain in Confed's hands. The war must now be fought on the front lines: with offensive actions in the Vega, Epislon and Gemini sectors.

The key here is that there is no 'pause' in the war as there was in the real timeline - Thrakhath does not believe he can capture Enigma, so he does not 'shut down' the war while the Strakha is redeveloped. Traditional offensives are launched with the goal of capturing systems like Perry, Epsilon Prime and Kurasawa. A replay of the original Wing Commander ensues - with a bloody fought stalemate between the two sides. Kilrathi numbers and technology continue to improve...

That was brilliant! Overall Wing Commander 2 would be non existant as the Confederation would not have had to wait 10 years before launching it's major offensive in the Enigma Sector.

That was some brilliant discussion guys. Who wants to choose the next theory? :cool:
 
Confed has adequate perparation for the Kilrathi assult on McAulife (sp? I'm too lazy to look it up) and, as a result, the Kilrathi are foiled before their torpedo bombers are within striking range.
 
It is possible then with LOAF'S theory that the Confederation class Dreadnoughts would be brought online sooner, say 2658 instead of 2660. However, the PTC, still being in development, will not be installed in the first incarnations of the class, (CVS-64[14] Confederation, CVS 65-Concordia and CVS-66 Alliance)
This would force the Connie to think twice before engaging a pair of Fralthra.
 
2 years is a lot of time to shave off the construction of a major capship. The lack of a PTC might doesn't totally negate Confederation class ships from engaging kilrathi vessels, it still has 8 anti-matter guns, which is more than double the firepower of 2 fralthra which only pack 3 a peice.

In response the the previous post...Even with preparation there would still be significant losses on the confederation side because of the shift in strategy that will need to be implemented to repel torpedo attacks.
 
It is possible then with LOAF'S theory that the Confederation class Dreadnoughts would be brought online sooner, say 2658 instead of 2660. However, the PTC, still being in development, will not be installed in the first incarnations of the class, (CVS-64[14] Confederation, CVS 65-Concordia and CVS-66 Alliance)
This would force the Connie to think twice before engaging a pair of Fralthra.

I don't think it does. Putting the PTC into service was the entire impetus for producing the Confed-class ship in the first place. Operation Thor's Hammer occured in my 'alternate' history. If, for whatever reason, it hadn't, then Confed wouldn't have rushed to build a new class of ship at all - there's no Kilrathi supergun to counter.

(Besides, I don't think the five year carrier build time is negotiable - giant gun or no giant gun.)

-What if Hobbes never defected?

If Hobbes doesn't defect then the Confederation won't know of the rebellion on Ghorah Khar... the revolt will either not occur or, without Confed support, be easily put down by the Empire. Ghorah Khar will not fall and Thrakhath will not be forced to destroy his stealth fighter labs/factories. He will launch a major offensive aimed at taking the Enigma black hole. Thrakhath will gut the major colonies in Enigma (Fiddler's Green, Niven, Heaven's Gate, etc.) and launch an offensive directly against the human homeworlds. I don't believe Thrakhath can win the war outright, but he will have severed the hard contested Epsilon (Deneb) Sector from the Confederation in a single blow. The Confederation will be forced to withdraw their major forces fighting in Vega to defend Sol, leaving the sector open to a major Kilrathi invasion.

On the other hand, Blair will not spend ten years in exile - as soon as Strakha begin appearing on the front lines, his claims will have been validated and he will return to active duty. He'll serve his first tour as an actual Wing Commander onboard a ship defending the Sol Sector... with another chance to be the hero (G)

Confed has adequate perparation for the Kilrathi assult on McAulife (sp? I'm too lazy to look it up) and, as a result, the Kilrathi are foiled before their torpedo bombers are within striking range.

McAuliffe, after the astronaut.

From a military standpoint, they could certainly press their advantage and kick the Kilrathi out of the Vega Sector two decades early... but from a political standpoint, Confed really *needed* to suffer the massive defeat at McAuliffe. Without that, the internal strife continues instead of creating a united Confederation fighting for the common good.
 
Good point. Plus, I was also of the mind to think that, without having the kilrathi "dud" torpedos embedded everywhere, we might not have had a chance to reverse-engineer them and have torpedo technology of our own.

But, back to the point of political positions about the war, wouldn't it also be possible that, after seeing the size of the kilrathi strike force, and (almost certainly) having seen at least one demonstration of torpedo technology (which, now that I think about it, probably negates my previous point), that it may have had a similar effect (though, certainly, less potent) on the Confederation, because of the Kilrathi making such an obvious attempt on a Confederation holiday, which was then barely staved off (as it would have been).

And, for the sake of looking into that timeline, say we did push the Kats out of Vega twenty years early; how do you think that would have affected the overall outcome of the war outright, taking into consideration the changes in technology, amounts of available resources, and military (and political) morale?
 
Wasn't McAuliffe ALSO a WWII General or something? Mind you, I don't mean LOAF is wrong.

Anyway, I sometimes see some of the developments of the Kilrathi War as a little bit "forced" by the authors... It's a bit like Macross tike stories, where entire fleets are lost, the good guys forces are almost depleted then, out of the blue, another couple of fleets decide to show up. That is valid for the Kats too. BUT, overall, the progress of war is decently laid out.

It bothered me in the games (esp. WCIII) when you singlehandedly toasted 4 or 5 carrier groups in about 3 missions, and it had little to no effect in the war! That kats sure churned cap ships like nothing in this universe.

Back to the topic, I sometimes wonder what if Tolwyn was there waiting for the Bugs. If we would be able to really kick their chitinous asses so well, or maybe even better. But at what cost to our civilization? Being under the yoke of a "Militocracy"...
 
The fact that we can destroy so many carrier groups in WC3 and not effect the war is the fact that the kats have a large amount of carriers (more than 20) even after the battle of earth. Destroying 5 carrier groups produces a result on the war, however, the homefleet orbiting kilrah is most likely sufficient to destroy the confed fleet in a meeting engagement.

To the previous post...

Pushin the kats out of vega earlier would prevent some of the battles in later years that would gut the confed fleet (mostly those of the mid 2660s which saw the loss of 8 carriers, half the confed fleet). The rebellion of ghorah khor would have been quite different, as confed would have been able to more easlily aid them. However, due to the large size of the kat fleet they may have been able to mount a counter offensive and force an engagement on their terms where confed forces would be in a bad position. The kats always had the advantage in numbers in all categories for most of the war, so even the loss of 2 sector HQs may not have severly thrown off their warplan. Thrakhath has a commander who seemed to seek the large engagements where he could smash as many confed vessels as possible, I see no reason why he wouldn't try it in this situation.
 
Maybe... But if ONE pilot can destroy 5 or 6 carriers without any major difficulty, why can't the other THOUSANDS of pilots in teams do something similar...
well, I see this as a minor flaw in the game design, it has no bearing in the "official history".
 
I can agree, it is done just for game dynamics (I mean who doesn't have fun blowin the crap out of carrier every 7 or 8 missions?) I forget how many kat carriers get toasted in the novel but I think it's only 2 or 3, could be even less. but the fact that the kats had so many and confed so few (I would guess at less than 12 or 10 after the battle of earth) the destruction of a few kat carriers still doesn't affect the odds enough in confeds favor.
 
Surely. But if losing BILLIONS of carriers(Only at WC II, i remember cripling at least 30 capships ALONE) don't cripple the kilrathi, what would do?
 
BTW, McAuliffe was a WWII General. Brigadier General, artillery Cdr. of 101st Airborne. He commanded the division at Bastogne while General Taylor was on leave. He was who replied "Nuts" :D
 
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