Jason_Ryock
Vice Admiral
I'm massively confused by this reference.
Timeline between Secret Ops & WC Arena..
- Thread starter JasonRocZ
- Start date
I'm massively confused by this reference.
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
A line in Wing Commander III about Vaquero's music - 'Rockero from the Celeste System.'
Jason_Ryock
Vice Admiral
There isn't a summary anywhere for the Priv3 script, is there? I downloaded all the PDF's but it seems like I'm going to have to read through the whole thing to understand it.
Maybe I'll write one when I'm done.
Maybe I'll write one when I'm done.
Dundradal
Frog Blast the Vent Core!
Dundradal
Frog Blast the Vent Core!
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
I don't know of one - although at least one of them gets a timeline entry in Star*Soldier (and another is described in the pilot bios.)
Jason_Ryock
Vice Admiral
I believe I have solved at least part of this mystery.
Last time I checked this there were three ships unidentified:
1) The 'double moray' at the top
2) The spikey support craft in the middle
3) The upside down Hydra
I believe I've now identified two of these ships.
The first is the upside down Hydra - LOAF mentioned this is probably a joke reference to the art for Prophecy Gold I believe it was. However, since it's now published in universe, I suppose it's official that an upside down Hydra exists (though the name is speculation).
The second is the spikey craft in the middle of the support ships. This one eluded me for quite a while - but I was back checking some other facts (The Kraken Squadron reference) in the new WC SO DEV CD and I noticed that the file makes reference to a "Skate Fighter Destroyer" being part of the fleet - this ship doesn't exist anywhere. However, it's given lenght in the file is 120m. In fact, this is the only length given for any of the ships listed in the file, as they are ordered by size. We know the official length of the Triton to be 230m and the Barracuda to be 130m...and wouldn't you guess it, on the Silhouette chart the Triton is roughly twice the length of the spikey craft and the Barracuda is just a little bit longer then it. Hence, I believe this spikey craft to be the Skate Fighter Destroyer.
This ship is also referenced on the "Wants" list in the design files as "Fighter Destroyer" under the "Alien" section.
Jason_Ryock
Vice Admiral
MY NOTES:
Things that are marked with a [V] or a [X] or a [W] belong to related items marked in the same manner. This is due largely to geographical locations on the map. Assuming a concentrated enemy thrust from the wormhole through the listed systems, this order of the battles makes the most sense. There is a large batch of italicized notes in the middle of the timeline. These are from the Second Nephilim War (Started in 2691) but are unidentified. I have moved all War References to post 2691 except for the penetration raids, which sources suggest occurred much sooner. I also added in the Midway-class Carriers Commissioning Dates.
PROBLEMS:
The 2694 Dates
The 2694 Date is explicit, unfortunately. It's stated in Star*Soldier as the year the TCS Port Broughton is abandoned following the battle of Corsair. The problem arises when referencing the POL2 sources. They state the war has ended in 2693 with the destruction of 40% of the Confederation Standing Fleet. However, later in a 2695 entry they state the war ended approximately one year earlier. It's possible that the war was winding down between 2693 and 2694, with Confed officially declaring it over in 2693 but the Nephilim Vengeance Raids occurring in 2694 (of which the Battle of Corsair is a part of).
Perry Naval Station
Gemini sector is quarantined in 2686, well before the start of the second war. Yet all Perry-class Naval Stations are known to have been destroyed by the end of the Second War, and we have no reference of battles or conflicts taking place here. It's possible that it was destroyed as part of the Church of Man Plot (See the Star*Soldier Timeline) or by any other force (Confed, Kilrathi, Nephilim) and we simply have no record of it due to the isolation of Gemini. It's also possible it's still there (inactive) only isolated due to the virus.
Port Broughton Service Entrance Date
There are two problems with this date. The first is that it disagrees with LOAF's timeline (http://www.hamtwoslices.net/loaf/fleetcarriers.html) which states that the last Midway should come online in 2685. We could assume that it is delayed, but this is contradicted by Star*Soldier which says it was "Rushed into Service". My understanding of LOAF's timeline is that it's unofficial, so the 2686 should probably be the projected Service Entry Date (Sorry LOAF, if this is wrong, let me know ASAP).
The second problem with the Port Broughton service entry date (which comes from Star*Soldier) is that it states the ships being sent to "The Front Lines". This is a slight problem, as the war doesn't kick off again until 2691...5 years away. Where are the front lines? See my note below regarding the Kilrathi/Terran Alliance.
Terran/Kilrathi Alliance
I placed the Kilrathi/Terran Alliance where I did because it conincides with the creation (From POL2) of the new Kilrathi Government, which seemed an ideal time to form a Military Alliance with the Confederation. If we look at the facts, there are a number of Wormholes opened (Like K'sktag System, Hhallas System, and the Valgard System). If we assume that the Nephilim are using those wormholes (and have been since 2681, when they were opened) a Kilrathi/Terran Alliance at this point would allow for "Front Lines" in Kilrathi space, while still allowing the inclusion of the PLO2 Plot that doesn't have the Confederation up to it's neck in war. Also there is an obscure reference to "Kilrathi-Midways" that may be the result of this same set of circumstances.
Confederation First Strike Raids
These raids pose no end of problems. The timeline in Star*Soldier claims to pick up again in 2681 with the First Confederation Counter Attacks. This places these events in 2681 - even though the Second War doesn't start again until 2691, for another ten years. These events, and the events surrounding them (Vanguard Squadron and Broadsword service re-entry Date [Star*Soldier]) seem to indicate that there is a 'shadow' type war going on in Nephilim space for the 10 year span. Possibly also that 2681 was NOT the end of the First Nephilim war (though PLO2 seems to suggest otherwise).
The Timeline
2681 - K'sktag System, Hhallas System, Valgard System wormholes open up. (S*S)
26?? - Vanguard squadron racks up 129 to 1 kill ratio raiding Nephilim Space. (S*S)
2681 – TCS Mistral Sea Enters Service (Source?)
2681 – TCS Tafanda Bay Enters Service (Source?)
2681 - Confederation counter attacks Reef 68C Delta (S*S)
268? - Broadswords are deployed to help destroy the first Reef Construction yard, where the Shrikes and Devastators take heavy damage. (S*S)
2682 – Coral Sea Enters Service (Source?)
268? – TCS Jutland Enters Service (Source?)
2683 – TCS Ptoloman’s Rift Enters Service (Source?)
2683 – TCS Enyo III Enters Service (Source?)
2684 – TCS Bataan Enters Service (Source?)
2682 - The “Nephilim Virus” is identified. The initial vector is linked to a deep space salvage freighter called the “Hispaniola”. With exposure to atmosphere the armor began to decay, causing dormant microbes to become active. It spread due to the handling of decaying organic armor by scientists and salvage ops.The virus, either absorbed through the skin or ingested through the air, began to feed on living tissues. As part of their waste material they manufactured a chemical that induces euphoria, causing the victim to neglect the deleterious affects of exposure.Traditional methods of treatment prove ineffective. A galactic search for a vaccine/cure begins in earnest. The initial death toll was set at 47,000. (POL2)
2682 - After much public outcry and several internal Confederation inquiries as to the conditions of Kilrathi placement facilities, Confed agrees to help the Kilrathi form a new governing body to self-regulate conditions and manage Kilrathi/Confederation relations. Staffed by royal clan leaders and Sivaran Priestesses the KCA (or Kilrathi Clan Alliance) is created.
26?? - Terran-Kilrathi Alliance signed on board the TCS Conqueror. (S*S)
2683 - With no tenable cure for the Nephilim Virus yet discovered, the CVCD (Confederation Viral Control Division) calls for the immediate quarantine of entire systems, starting with Kreiger in Sol sector. Kreiger was home to a research starbase that had been conducting initial tests on Alien technology. Tests that left the starbase a floating hulk filled with seven hundred corpses. (POL2)
2683 - Nephilim Virus death toll exceeds 3,000,000. (POL2)
2684 - All craft entering critical systems are now scanned for Nephilim Virus before being allowed to proceed. The “iron maiden”, a single person chamber filled with micro-needles synched to inject a prototype vaccine to every point on the body, was proven to have limited, yet repeatable, effectiveness at stopping the progression of the virus in infected individuals. However, the treatment is so aggressive that even with the virus neutralized the patient is usually unable to survive the anti-bodies invasive application in their weakened state. (POL2)
2684 - The death toll had escalated to over 24,000,000. Agrent, Hawking, and Avalon sectors are untouched. (POL2)
2685 - Local militia shoots down ships fleeing quarantined systems as they enter the Argent Sector. Although the militia members responsible are formally indicted, they are viewed as heroes in their home sector and hidden from extradition by Confederation forces. (POL2)
2685 - Over forty systems scattered throughout the Sol, Vega, Trk’Pahn, and Gemini sectors are quarantined and blockaded by a coalition of official Confederation and conscripted local militia vessels. Supplies are delivered to the afflicted areas with unmanned drones. (POL2)
2685 - The death toll exceeds 200,000,000. (POL2)
2686 - Researchers at the CVCD finally isolate the Nephilim Virus. Extensive tests begin on non-intrusive delivery systems. (POL2)
2686 - The Gemini Sector is the hardest hit by the virus due in part to the pirate and mercenary activity that has distributed contraband alien technology. All jump points out of the sector are blockaded. Drone transports are utilized to send supplies to systems. (POL2)
2686 - Although a marked slow down in the spread of the plague had been noted, the total casualties (after incorporating Kilrathi estimates) was now over 600,000,000.(POL2)
2686 - TCS Port Broughton enters service, rushing immediately to the front lines. (S*S)
2687 - 80% of Gemini Sector’s systems are non-responsive to any communications. (POL2)
2691 - "Aligned People" largest fleet deployed in Epsilon to recover a Seltek derelict. Subsequent intelligence reports revealed the Nephilim were searching for crystalline artifacts that appeared to be Steltek in origin. (S*S)(POL2)
2691 - The Nephilim return in force, destroying an archaeological site in the Epsilon sector that had uncovered an ancient Steltek vessel the size of a small continent buried within the orbiting remnants of a shattered planet. It marks the start of the second Nehalem war. (POL2)
2691 - The Nephilim moved freely through Confederation space, ignoring some planets while devastating others. (POL2)
2691 - In the Epsilon sector they uncovered a Steltek derelict the size of a small continent buried within the orbiting remnants of a shattered planet. Within this they recovered a crystalline artifact that resonated with a pattern of energies never before recorded. The Nephilim’s first stop on their last return was this site. They took the crystal then obliterated the derelict. (POL2)
26?? - Battle line moves to defend Ardai. Dirk Wright commands Alliance 12th fleet where cloaked fighters destroy a heavily defend Nephilim base behind enemy lines. [V] (S*S)
26?? - Battle of Dakota, a single human battlecruiser holds four kraken squadrons at bay until reinforcements arrive.[V] (S*S)
26?? - Brimston Massacre[V] (S*S)
26?? - Battle of Mcauliffe[V] (S*S)
26?? - Sirius Wormhole Opened[V] (S*S)
26?? - Battle of Sirius[V] (Closet to Earth) (S*S)
26?? - Sirus wormhole destroyed, TCS Port Broughton presumed lost.[X] (S*S)
26?? - TCS Port Boughton emerge from Charybdis[X] (S*S)
26?? - Wormhole opened near Corsair system.[X] (B'shriss?) (S*S)
26?? - Corsair system stripped and prepped as a marshaling yard.[X] (S*S)
26?? - 18th Fleet arrives from Yelkin II to fortify Firekka.[X] (S*S)
26?? - Battle of B'shriss [X] (S*S)
26?? - Perry Naval Station Destroyed? (S*S)
26?? - Dralthi IX deployed to combat Nephilim. (S*S)
26?? - Burning Battle (S*S)
26?? - Nephilim Puffer class ships are introduced. (S*S)
26?? - Heavy Dralthi are introduced to counter the Puffer-class ships. (S*S)
26?? - Battle of Fiddler's Green (S*S)
26?? - Battle of Reid (S*S)
26?? – TCS Bataan stranded in enemy space. (S*S)
26?? - TCS Lawrence rescues the TCS Midway after Zhrtx's Doublecross. (S*S)
26?? - TCS Lawrence penetrates 100,000 LY into the Aligned Peoples homeworlds. (S*S)
269? - Battle of Silenos (S*S)
269? - Evacuation of Torgo, KAS Vrax'hmal closes the (Valgard?) alien wormhole long enough for the transport fleet to escape. (S*S)
2693 - The Confederation chased the Nephilim to the Gemini sector, attempting to beat them to the crystals they were now tracking thanks to the unique energy signature they had sampled. TCIS plays an important role in these proceedings.
2693 - These crystal machines would be lost at the battle in Gemini. They were sucked into an as yet unexplained dimensional rift, along with the Nephilim and Confederation forces. The rift left as soon as it had manifested leaving no residual artifacts to offer an explanation of its origin. 40% of Confeds standing fleet is lost.
2694 - Battle of Corsair System, TCS Port Broughton abandoned (S*S)
269? - Vengence strikes by Nephilim in the ending stages of the war destroy Antares. (S*S)
Things that are marked with a [V] or a [X] or a [W] belong to related items marked in the same manner. This is due largely to geographical locations on the map. Assuming a concentrated enemy thrust from the wormhole through the listed systems, this order of the battles makes the most sense. There is a large batch of italicized notes in the middle of the timeline. These are from the Second Nephilim War (Started in 2691) but are unidentified. I have moved all War References to post 2691 except for the penetration raids, which sources suggest occurred much sooner. I also added in the Midway-class Carriers Commissioning Dates.
PROBLEMS:
The 2694 Dates
The 2694 Date is explicit, unfortunately. It's stated in Star*Soldier as the year the TCS Port Broughton is abandoned following the battle of Corsair. The problem arises when referencing the POL2 sources. They state the war has ended in 2693 with the destruction of 40% of the Confederation Standing Fleet. However, later in a 2695 entry they state the war ended approximately one year earlier. It's possible that the war was winding down between 2693 and 2694, with Confed officially declaring it over in 2693 but the Nephilim Vengeance Raids occurring in 2694 (of which the Battle of Corsair is a part of).
Perry Naval Station
Gemini sector is quarantined in 2686, well before the start of the second war. Yet all Perry-class Naval Stations are known to have been destroyed by the end of the Second War, and we have no reference of battles or conflicts taking place here. It's possible that it was destroyed as part of the Church of Man Plot (See the Star*Soldier Timeline) or by any other force (Confed, Kilrathi, Nephilim) and we simply have no record of it due to the isolation of Gemini. It's also possible it's still there (inactive) only isolated due to the virus.
Port Broughton Service Entrance Date
There are two problems with this date. The first is that it disagrees with LOAF's timeline (http://www.hamtwoslices.net/loaf/fleetcarriers.html) which states that the last Midway should come online in 2685. We could assume that it is delayed, but this is contradicted by Star*Soldier which says it was "Rushed into Service". My understanding of LOAF's timeline is that it's unofficial, so the 2686 should probably be the projected Service Entry Date (Sorry LOAF, if this is wrong, let me know ASAP).
The second problem with the Port Broughton service entry date (which comes from Star*Soldier) is that it states the ships being sent to "The Front Lines". This is a slight problem, as the war doesn't kick off again until 2691...5 years away. Where are the front lines? See my note below regarding the Kilrathi/Terran Alliance.
Terran/Kilrathi Alliance
I placed the Kilrathi/Terran Alliance where I did because it conincides with the creation (From POL2) of the new Kilrathi Government, which seemed an ideal time to form a Military Alliance with the Confederation. If we look at the facts, there are a number of Wormholes opened (Like K'sktag System, Hhallas System, and the Valgard System). If we assume that the Nephilim are using those wormholes (and have been since 2681, when they were opened) a Kilrathi/Terran Alliance at this point would allow for "Front Lines" in Kilrathi space, while still allowing the inclusion of the PLO2 Plot that doesn't have the Confederation up to it's neck in war. Also there is an obscure reference to "Kilrathi-Midways" that may be the result of this same set of circumstances.
Confederation First Strike Raids
These raids pose no end of problems. The timeline in Star*Soldier claims to pick up again in 2681 with the First Confederation Counter Attacks. This places these events in 2681 - even though the Second War doesn't start again until 2691, for another ten years. These events, and the events surrounding them (Vanguard Squadron and Broadsword service re-entry Date [Star*Soldier]) seem to indicate that there is a 'shadow' type war going on in Nephilim space for the 10 year span. Possibly also that 2681 was NOT the end of the First Nephilim war (though PLO2 seems to suggest otherwise).
The Timeline
2681 - K'sktag System, Hhallas System, Valgard System wormholes open up. (S*S)
26?? - Vanguard squadron racks up 129 to 1 kill ratio raiding Nephilim Space. (S*S)
2681 – TCS Mistral Sea Enters Service (Source?)
2681 – TCS Tafanda Bay Enters Service (Source?)
2681 - Confederation counter attacks Reef 68C Delta (S*S)
268? - Broadswords are deployed to help destroy the first Reef Construction yard, where the Shrikes and Devastators take heavy damage. (S*S)
2682 – Coral Sea Enters Service (Source?)
268? – TCS Jutland Enters Service (Source?)
2683 – TCS Ptoloman’s Rift Enters Service (Source?)
2683 – TCS Enyo III Enters Service (Source?)
2684 – TCS Bataan Enters Service (Source?)
2682 - The “Nephilim Virus” is identified. The initial vector is linked to a deep space salvage freighter called the “Hispaniola”. With exposure to atmosphere the armor began to decay, causing dormant microbes to become active. It spread due to the handling of decaying organic armor by scientists and salvage ops.The virus, either absorbed through the skin or ingested through the air, began to feed on living tissues. As part of their waste material they manufactured a chemical that induces euphoria, causing the victim to neglect the deleterious affects of exposure.Traditional methods of treatment prove ineffective. A galactic search for a vaccine/cure begins in earnest. The initial death toll was set at 47,000. (POL2)
2682 - After much public outcry and several internal Confederation inquiries as to the conditions of Kilrathi placement facilities, Confed agrees to help the Kilrathi form a new governing body to self-regulate conditions and manage Kilrathi/Confederation relations. Staffed by royal clan leaders and Sivaran Priestesses the KCA (or Kilrathi Clan Alliance) is created.
26?? - Terran-Kilrathi Alliance signed on board the TCS Conqueror. (S*S)
2683 - With no tenable cure for the Nephilim Virus yet discovered, the CVCD (Confederation Viral Control Division) calls for the immediate quarantine of entire systems, starting with Kreiger in Sol sector. Kreiger was home to a research starbase that had been conducting initial tests on Alien technology. Tests that left the starbase a floating hulk filled with seven hundred corpses. (POL2)
2683 - Nephilim Virus death toll exceeds 3,000,000. (POL2)
2684 - All craft entering critical systems are now scanned for Nephilim Virus before being allowed to proceed. The “iron maiden”, a single person chamber filled with micro-needles synched to inject a prototype vaccine to every point on the body, was proven to have limited, yet repeatable, effectiveness at stopping the progression of the virus in infected individuals. However, the treatment is so aggressive that even with the virus neutralized the patient is usually unable to survive the anti-bodies invasive application in their weakened state. (POL2)
2684 - The death toll had escalated to over 24,000,000. Agrent, Hawking, and Avalon sectors are untouched. (POL2)
2685 - Local militia shoots down ships fleeing quarantined systems as they enter the Argent Sector. Although the militia members responsible are formally indicted, they are viewed as heroes in their home sector and hidden from extradition by Confederation forces. (POL2)
2685 - Over forty systems scattered throughout the Sol, Vega, Trk’Pahn, and Gemini sectors are quarantined and blockaded by a coalition of official Confederation and conscripted local militia vessels. Supplies are delivered to the afflicted areas with unmanned drones. (POL2)
2685 - The death toll exceeds 200,000,000. (POL2)
2686 - Researchers at the CVCD finally isolate the Nephilim Virus. Extensive tests begin on non-intrusive delivery systems. (POL2)
2686 - The Gemini Sector is the hardest hit by the virus due in part to the pirate and mercenary activity that has distributed contraband alien technology. All jump points out of the sector are blockaded. Drone transports are utilized to send supplies to systems. (POL2)
2686 - Although a marked slow down in the spread of the plague had been noted, the total casualties (after incorporating Kilrathi estimates) was now over 600,000,000.(POL2)
2686 - TCS Port Broughton enters service, rushing immediately to the front lines. (S*S)
2687 - 80% of Gemini Sector’s systems are non-responsive to any communications. (POL2)
2691 - "Aligned People" largest fleet deployed in Epsilon to recover a Seltek derelict. Subsequent intelligence reports revealed the Nephilim were searching for crystalline artifacts that appeared to be Steltek in origin. (S*S)(POL2)
2691 - The Nephilim return in force, destroying an archaeological site in the Epsilon sector that had uncovered an ancient Steltek vessel the size of a small continent buried within the orbiting remnants of a shattered planet. It marks the start of the second Nehalem war. (POL2)
2691 - The Nephilim moved freely through Confederation space, ignoring some planets while devastating others. (POL2)
2691 - In the Epsilon sector they uncovered a Steltek derelict the size of a small continent buried within the orbiting remnants of a shattered planet. Within this they recovered a crystalline artifact that resonated with a pattern of energies never before recorded. The Nephilim’s first stop on their last return was this site. They took the crystal then obliterated the derelict. (POL2)
26?? - Battle line moves to defend Ardai. Dirk Wright commands Alliance 12th fleet where cloaked fighters destroy a heavily defend Nephilim base behind enemy lines. [V] (S*S)
26?? - Battle of Dakota, a single human battlecruiser holds four kraken squadrons at bay until reinforcements arrive.[V] (S*S)
26?? - Brimston Massacre[V] (S*S)
26?? - Battle of Mcauliffe[V] (S*S)
26?? - Sirius Wormhole Opened[V] (S*S)
26?? - Battle of Sirius[V] (Closet to Earth) (S*S)
26?? - Sirus wormhole destroyed, TCS Port Broughton presumed lost.[X] (S*S)
26?? - TCS Port Boughton emerge from Charybdis[X] (S*S)
26?? - Wormhole opened near Corsair system.[X] (B'shriss?) (S*S)
26?? - Corsair system stripped and prepped as a marshaling yard.[X] (S*S)
26?? - 18th Fleet arrives from Yelkin II to fortify Firekka.[X] (S*S)
26?? - Battle of B'shriss [X] (S*S)
26?? - Perry Naval Station Destroyed? (S*S)
26?? - Dralthi IX deployed to combat Nephilim. (S*S)
26?? - Burning Battle (S*S)
26?? - Nephilim Puffer class ships are introduced. (S*S)
26?? - Heavy Dralthi are introduced to counter the Puffer-class ships. (S*S)
26?? - Battle of Fiddler's Green (S*S)
26?? - Battle of Reid (S*S)
26?? – TCS Bataan stranded in enemy space. (S*S)
26?? - TCS Lawrence rescues the TCS Midway after Zhrtx's Doublecross. (S*S)
26?? - TCS Lawrence penetrates 100,000 LY into the Aligned Peoples homeworlds. (S*S)
269? - Battle of Silenos (S*S)
269? - Evacuation of Torgo, KAS Vrax'hmal closes the (Valgard?) alien wormhole long enough for the transport fleet to escape. (S*S)
2693 - The Confederation chased the Nephilim to the Gemini sector, attempting to beat them to the crystals they were now tracking thanks to the unique energy signature they had sampled. TCIS plays an important role in these proceedings.
2693 - These crystal machines would be lost at the battle in Gemini. They were sucked into an as yet unexplained dimensional rift, along with the Nephilim and Confederation forces. The rift left as soon as it had manifested leaving no residual artifacts to offer an explanation of its origin. 40% of Confeds standing fleet is lost.
2694 - Battle of Corsair System, TCS Port Broughton abandoned (S*S)
269? - Vengence strikes by Nephilim in the ending stages of the war destroy Antares. (S*S)
Jason_Ryock
Vice Admiral
I hate to triple post, but I forgot to attach this file to my last post, and editing won't let me attach something. This is a color coded version of the same information above, colored by source.
View attachment nepi-war-notes.doc
View attachment nepi-war-notes.doc
AD
Finder of things, Doer of stuff
These "problems" shouldn't really be an issue for you as the only items that are actually canon are what's in Star*Soldier. You should just be using the Privateer online stuff as suggestions and not actual truth. Use the info to fill in the blanks as needed and feel free to fudge the POL2 stuff that doesn't Jive. Anything in Star*Soldier overrules the other items because it was *actually* released.
Jason_Ryock
Vice Admiral
Yeah, the two real issues there are the End of the War and the Beginning of the War. The rest of the stuff is fudgeable enough with those two worked out that it's not a problem.
I'd like some of the POL2 stuff to work with the timeline, it adds nice elements to the universe with things like 80% Loses in the Gemini Sector (which otherwise remains largely untouched by the Second Nephilim War).
AD
Finder of things, Doer of stuff
For sure. I'm not saying not to use the stuff, but that where conflict arises, default the the actual known facts from Star*Soldier
Jason_Ryock
Vice Admiral
The POL2 Sources, at any rate allow for some adjustment as they refer to three events:
1) The First Nephilim War
2) The Second Nephilim War
3) The Nephilim Conflict
Now, it's possible that "The Nephilim Conflict" Refers to the entire scope of both wars, and it's also possible that it's a third seperate incident.
My interpertation of the text is that the Nephilim Conflict is the events of WCP/SO, the First Nephilim War takes place shortly after that with Confed Strikes into Nephilim Space (And Nephilim Operations in Kilrathi Space) and the Second Nephilim War starts up again in 2691.
There's a third problem not listed in my reference above that's a more serious issue. In 2691 there is a launch for the Steltak Crystals which are not recovered until 2693. That's a little odd - somehow those crystals stayed in Confederation space for 2 years only to be lost in a massive catacylsm? My belief is that the Nephilim took them back to Fluid Space to investigate them, and figured out how to use them, leading to the final conflict in which they were lost. What role TCIS played in all this is unclear, but it's suggested they are responsible for recovering the crystals (Strike Team, anyone?).
RogueBanshee
Rear Admiral
Given that the Rapier-Is, and Scimitars were in service for over 100 years and we know that Rapier-IIs, Broadswords, and Arrow Vs were still in service during the Nephilim War I don't really see much of a basis for your complaint.
Jason_Ryock
Vice Admiral
Facts not in evidence your honor.
What I find most hilarious about your post is that there is only a hundred years between the earliers dated WC Source (Action Stations) and the lastest dated WC Source (Star*Soldier). So...for half your post to be correct, a fighter would have to be in service for the entire timeline, which we already know can't be true.
Arrrows were still in service (They had a much letter service entry date then the other fighters listed) but let's look at the Broadsword for a moment: the text from Star*Soldier mentions that it was pulled from the Surplus yard - so they weren't 'still in service' as you claim, but had been surplussed out of the fleet. So now we're down to the only actual factual part of your post: the Rapier-II is the only WC1/WC2 fighter to last in service the entire time until the Nephilim War (and at any rate, until the end of it as that's when 2701 takes place).
So yes, I have a problem with people reactivating fighters from WC1 and WC2 to use in 2701 - but not because they shouldn't be in service. I have a problem with it because along the way people ignore the Devestator and the Shrike, and the Vampire and the Panther, and the Wasp and the Piranha. And even the Longbow and the Thunderbolt and the Excalibur. There are a dozen ships that show up after the WC2 timeline in Confeds Arsenal and they all get ignored for nostalgia reasons.
Now, I fully understand the logic behind this - it makes perfect sense. People want to fly what they are familar with. Mods like UE ignore this problem because they're the Border Worlds fleet, which is expected to have some what less-then-new fighters. But a mod like WC:CD can't simply ignore the WCP/SO fighters and bombers - Star*Soldier makes it a point of showing us how they're still around and in use, compared with previous game manuals which all but ignores the previous ships (like WC3's Victory Streak for example).
What did it well is something like Arena - the newer ships are having a tough time, so we're bringing back some older designs and beefing them up. I don't think anyone will tell that the Blade II looks flies or flees like a Rapier-II, even though that's what it's based off of. Likewise the Broadsword is such a vastly differant ship from the original it's hardly the same thing. Arena managed to bring in the new ships in a way that made sense - not merely a Game-Designers-Favorite-Fighter-Is-The-Epee-So-We-Gave-It-A-100-year-service-date kind of way.
Jason_Ryock
Vice Admiral
In all fairness, Scimitars really were in service for a century, though.
Nevermind - I found the reference. Schim's apparently started service in 2557 - a centruy of service means retirement by 2657 (assuming it was actually only a full century) it's possible that this was stretched another 10 years due to the war to 2667 - which would have put it's service retirement date at roughly the end of the war.
However, that's far shy of the 2781 timeline that kicks off the start of the Nephilim War.
JasonRocZ
Vice Admiral
I agree with you Mr Ryock. The only reason why some older ships are coming into the WC:CD mod are
A.) Being pulled out of Surplus to fight a war where Confed in the beginning didn't really have much of a Fleet that was commissioned at least that's how it is referenced in Prophecy and Secret Ops. So There had to be a back up...Although I've shown the Scimitar or even the Thunderbolt doesn't mean that Your going to see these fighters in each and every single mission. The Scimitar I was thinking on showing as a civilian ship (Mercenary, Merchant, What have you) Not in confed service like the Talon (Sold to civilians due to technological change). Although It has been a toss up on whether or not the ship being stationed on is going to be a Midway Class or someother class that is in support of the Midway class.
B.) One ship that probably isn't going to be in the mod is the Piranha. and either the Devestator or Shrike will be nixed, I haven't decided
A.) Being pulled out of Surplus to fight a war where Confed in the beginning didn't really have much of a Fleet that was commissioned at least that's how it is referenced in Prophecy and Secret Ops. So There had to be a back up...Although I've shown the Scimitar or even the Thunderbolt doesn't mean that Your going to see these fighters in each and every single mission. The Scimitar I was thinking on showing as a civilian ship (Mercenary, Merchant, What have you) Not in confed service like the Talon (Sold to civilians due to technological change). Although It has been a toss up on whether or not the ship being stationed on is going to be a Midway Class or someother class that is in support of the Midway class.
B.) One ship that probably isn't going to be in the mod is the Piranha. and either the Devestator or Shrike will be nixed, I haven't decided
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
Wait a minute: the first detailed narrative we have is set in 2634 (Action Stations), but that isn't the same thing as not having any information about the earlier years. We know from the history given in the Confederation Handbook that the first CF-117 Rapiers entered service in 2536.
No, they don't. I don't believe we have a specific service entry date for the Arrow, *but*:
- According to Star*Soldier (2701) its spaceframe has been unchanged for the past 'half century'. Also, it won a design award in 2654.
- We see an Arrow in the first episode of Wing Commander Academy (2654).
- The Arrow's designation is F-27, suggesting that it is noticably older than the F-44 Rapier II.
... which, at the *very least* makes it older than the Rapier II (which was in the previous list.)
We know that Scimitars were around in 2527 (per the Confederation Handbook) -- but then also that they were retired by the Confederation in 2655 (per Secret Missions 2). I believe the last time we see one flying is 2673, with the Border Worlds militia. The Nephilim War goes from 2681 (Prophecy, WCSO) until some time shortly before Arena (2701).
I do agree that the Prophecy fighters should be represented in any mod that's telling the story of the Nephilim War... as should the 'new' fighters mentioned in Star*Soldier (remember, the ones we fly in Arena aren't supposed to be new... they're the stuff being flown by mercenaries -- Confed proper has Hurricanes and Auroras and whatnot.)
Jason_Ryock
Vice Admiral
I'd forgotten this - thanks for the reference information, LOAF! Did you get a chance to look at the revised timeline posted above and/or the notes about the ship classes right above that?