Hey AD!
Apologies for the delay in responding to your questions -- I hope the following responses are of help!
AD said:
...What I'm wondering though is if there is a way to get sound while editing in virtualdub.
Yes there is a way.
Once you've opened a video file, you will usually see a video pane/window containing the input or source file on the left and the output or filtered video on the right (these settings can be changed if desired though, i.e. output file on the left, input on the right, or they can be aligned vertically, i.e. input on the top, output below or vice versa, etc.)
To play either the input/source or output/filtered, click the appropriate "play" (play arrow) button in the bottom left-hand corner of the work area, i.e.
"play I" to play the input file and
"play O" to play the output. Alternatively, you can go to the
"File" drop-down menu and select
"Preview input..." ;
"Preview filtered..." or
"Preview output from start..." The latter two may not playback in real-time if you have a computation-intensive filter (or number of filters) affecting the input video.
If you apply any filters (such as a resize, de-interlace, noise-reduction, de-logo, etc) then they will be realised in the output/filtered video pane. If you are only implementing a
"Direct Stream Copy" for the video, then your input and output panes will be identical.
AD said:
...As well, Is there a way to encode the video back into a VOB after? Haven't figured that out yet...
Well technically, yes, but there would be quality degradation and the process would be quite convoluted, as VirtualDub(Mod) does not allow for direct stream copying of MPEG1/2 streams -- the final container must be either AVI or Matroska, both of which cannot comprise MPEG1/2 streams.
The way to go about "saving" an MPEG2/VOB source back into a MPEG2/VOB after cutting/filtering it in VirtualDub(Mod), would be to encode the output with a lossless codec, such as HuffyUV, and then re-encode that lossless segment into a compatible MPEG2 stream with a utility such as
Tsunami MPEG Encoder. As you can imagine, this would be fairly inefficient and is not recommended due to the monotony, as well as the increased probability of introducing quality loss and syncing errors into the production.
With hindsight, I have now realised that recommending VirtualDub/VirtualDubMod at the beginning of this thread was not very well considered/thought through on my part, given the scope of your project and the processes it requires. I hope I haven't led you up the garden path, AD, regarding VirtualDub(Mod) usage and can only apologise for any setbacks/problems incurred from its use on my recommendation. VirtualDub and VirtualDub(Mod) are very useful pieces of open source software and I can envisage a good place to use them in the project, but I should have been clearer on their effectiveness and limitations from the beginning.
To clarify, while you can use VirtualDubMod to open and then cut/trim/filter specific VOB files (MPEG2 & AC3 streams) and therefore preserve the original Dolby Digital 5.1 audio, VirtualDubMod is not a non-linear editor and also requires the inputted VOB stream to be further filtered/compressed with an appropriate codec suitable for the AVI or Matroska containers, i.e. with VirtualDubMod you cannot open a particular WC4 VOB file, edit and then save the edited portion as a VOB directly.
Considering that you want to compile an MPEG2 DVD version first, it would be better and much more straightforward to import all the VOB's into a suitable editor (as you mentioned doing so far) and maintain the source format (MPEG2) all the way through production and then only convert to MPEG4 once the final MPEG2 DVD version is complete. The only downside being (again as you mentioned in your first post) that you would need to discard the AC3 option, unless you can find a way (perhaps a 3rd party plugin?) to integrate this capability into the editor you are using or upgrade to a more professional (expensive) package or suitable open source programme.
Where I can see VirtualDub(Mod) being useful is for the encoding of the MPEG2 final cut into a suitable MPEG4 package, as well as for adding multiple audio streams and sub-titles, as detailed below the next quote.
You mentioned in one of your first posts that you were using
Cyberlink's PowerDirector to edit the scenes -- I've downloaded a trial version of the programme and will give it a go to try and get a better feel of the processes you are using and to try and see if it's possible to somehow import AC3 directly or through a workaround involving other programmes.
Two other programmes that you could experiment with are firstly
Chopper XP 2.7 which opens VOB files and allows you to trim/edit and then save to VOB, but you can only cut/edit to within 1 second, instead of 1 frame, which may hamper creative choice. The other programme is
Cuttermaran 1.6.3 which is a frame accurate MPEG2 cutting tool. I believe that is quite widely used amongst enthusiast's, but was very unstable on my system when I tried it.
AD said:
...I would also like information on adding multiple audio tracks. For example, if I get it to work, I could include both 5.1 and the stereo mix I'm currently working with... That way people can chose according to their sound system...
Yes, this can be done.
For less complications and ease of use, I would recommend sticking with one audio format throughout the editing process and then only convert to another once the final edit has been encoded, e.g. if you're editing the main film with an audio track comprising portions of WC4 gameplay (say Stereo WAV or PCM) and video portions downconverted from 5.1 AC3 to stereo WAV or PCM, then maintain that until the final edit. You can then de-mux (separate) the audio from the video and encode it separately into say, Stereo MP3 or Ogg Vorbis or upconvert it to AC3 5.1 or 2.0 (there will be some minor quality loss and redundancy in the upconversion process, especially to 5.1, as the source would be stereo, albeit originally a 5.1 AC3 source).
Once you have the final MPEG2 movie compiled, say with Stereo MPEG Layer II audio or Stereo MPEG Layer III, it will be possible to de-mux/demultiplex the audio and then upconvert it to AC3 or vice versa and then multiplex the two audio streams back into the video stream and then author the MPEG2 version to DVD.
For the MPEG4 version, you can use either VirtualDubMod or another modified VirtualDub utility called NanDub (available at Doom9). NanDub only allows for the muxing of a primary and secondary stream (i.e. 2 audio streams) and AFAIK, the AVI container cannot contain more than 2 audio streams, whereas VirtualDubMod can AFAIK mux more than 2 audio streams, provided that the Matroska container is used.
Putting more than one audio stream in an AVI file is essentially a hack, as it was never designed to handle more than one audio stream. As such, either a specific audio stream switcher is required to playback an AVI file with two audio streams or a suitably configured media player is needed. If viewed via Windows Media Player, you need to install the Morgan Stream Switcher -- you should then be able to toggle between the two streams, however I recently downloaded the latest version of this and tried it with Windows Media Player 10 and was getting conflicts and syncing problems. I can recall it working with Windows Media Player 6.4 and according to the switcher's documentation, the latest version should work with Windows Media Player 9.
The other option and the one I would recommend, would be to use and suggest a media player like
Media Player Classic (available at Doom9) or
VLC Media Player -- the
DivX Player also allows you to toggle between streams.
To test compatibility with different media players, I encoded a short WC4 DVD sample with 2 audio streams [384kbps CBR 5.1 AC3 & 192kbps CBR Stereo LAME (MP3)]. To download it, right-click the link below:
WC4 DVD - Excalibur Encounter in Peleus (15.3MB)
AD said:
Is there a demand for subtitles? I could only do them in english and french, but I imagine that it would take a long time to work out (unless someone already has a text document of the dialogue) If there's demand I suppose eventualy I could forward an english transcript to someone to translate.
Well, I'm not sure about the demand -- perhaps someone at the CIC has some stats on the number of registered users from French/German/Spanish/etc regions and a better feel on the language demand/demographics (I have always been under the impression that WC has a large German following, amongst many other demographics for example). While the language of conversation on the CIC Forums is English, I know that there are quite a few member's that regularly post whose first language is not English and I would think that they and other foreign language fans would appreciate sub-titles in their own first language.
My WC4 DVD does not contain sub-titles, although there may be other localised versions that do, so you would probably need to generate your own once the final cut is complete. I would think that the programme that you eventually use to author the MPEG2 DVD version should allow you to add sub-titles (although they in turn may need to be compiled with a different utility). When encoding the MPEG4 version, you could use VirtualDubMod to add a number of sub-title languages if necessary, (a number of sub-title compilers are available on the Doom9 download section) although I have never tried this myself.
AD said:
Plus, if anyone is interested I may look into recording my thoughts on the story, character, wc in general, and of course the whole process of editing it all into this project and some of the decisions I made in the process and having it as an optional commentary or some such, as a bonus.
That would be great and widely appreciated I'm sure, but like the sub-titles, it's one of those tasks that doesn't really need to be done until the rest of the project is finished, but if you can fit them in at the end, it's a bonus.
AD said:
Man I have so much work to do, and my project just keeps getting bigger.
Yeah, I know how that feels! All I can say is don't let it take priority over other work/committments/real life and don't let it become all-consuming. Just take it as it comes and try not to let the whole thing become a chore.
Thanks for the update on the gameplay extraction process -- you should be an expert on the in's and out's of each WC4 mission after having to replay each one so many times
Lastly, I've hosted a 9.18MB video file called
wc4test.avi which I seem to recall getting from the CIC 6-12 months back, although I've tried to search through the CIC's archive and file sections and can't seem to find any references or credits. It's a short compilation of scenes, quite nicely edited together from the WC4 DVD and you may find it useful, that is if you are not the mystery author of the video
Anyway, keep up the great work!
Cheers,
BrynS
P.S. Link to
Doom9.net - The Definitive DVD Backup Resource
