Requesting correct Model-Credits

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Starman©

Spaceman
We don't need Psych for this, nor do we need you to flame this all over again. If you would have waited 10 minutes longer with your post, you would have received my apology with the intention to bring this finally to an end(but your post was faster).

I also want to apology to the community for even starting all this, I cannot make it unhappen, I can only prevent if from happening again and settle this things for the future in a normal way.
 

warzog

Spaceman
This Carrier-Model is build and textured by the WC-Saga Team (Mostly Lynx, Tolwyn and myself).
If you read the notes when you click on the mod in FLMM, one of the entries is:
Models by:
Bob McDob, BoH_Havoc, DMJC, Eder, Howard Day, Lynx, M.Kruer, MamiyaOtaru, Sadra, Stannum, Steele, and Tolwyn
Another entry is:
Models converted by:
Bob McDob, BoH_Havoc, Pani, and Tolwyn
I seriously thought that I HAD given credit to those that were due.
I went to the WC3D site, http://wcmdf.solsector.net and got the names (Steele & Tolwyn) that were connected to the model.
(Which is where I thought Tolwyn had taken it prior to sending it to me last year.)
The site clearly states that items may be used if credit is given.
And I thought that I had.
It's my understanding that almost all of the models are from WC-Saga,
but no one has ever said that credit needed to be given to that project,
just to the individual modelers.
And, I'm sorry, but no one ever mentioned you, Starman, to me.
I'm sorry if you should have been given credit, and were not.
As I have left the mod, for various reasons...
if you want...
I'm sure that you can get WC News, and Lancer's Reactor, to make the mod unavailable to the public.
My sincere apollogies if I offended anyone.
 

Starman©

Spaceman
warzog said:
As I have left the mod, for various reasons... if you want...I'm sure that you can get WC News, and Lancer's Reactor, to make the mod unavailable to the public. My sincere apollogies if I offended anyone.

There is certainly no need for your leave (at least not due to this crap here), nor do I have any intention of killing your project at all. I also don't deserve any credits, AFAIK you have no models included done especially by me, I was only refering to the other models

To make it short, this whole thread, and the way I wrote it was a very stupid idea,
and it is me who has to apologize in the first place, which I'm doing here again, especially towards you. Sorry for the anger, I might have started.

Regards

Starman©
 

gevatter Lars

Vice Admiral
Hey at least a normal person ^_^

@Warzog
We won't surely not ask anyone to shut down the mod and you got a PM hope that we can now clear everything to go back to normal.
 

warzog

Spaceman
Starman & gevatter Lars:
My leaving the mod has nothing to do with this matter.
In fact, I only discovered it this morning.
I left the mod due to my health, and my friggin' computer.
For some unknown reason, my computer continually corrupts files.
In particular, INI & DLL files.
Working on the mod is one thing.
But trying to find programming errors AND corrupt files has gotten to be to much for me to handle.
There's several hundred files in the mod, and repairing the corrupt ones over and over again is to stressful.
I'm 53, and the stress is just to much for me right now.
Now, if someone could help me find out why my Athlon powered HP Pavilion computer, with an MSN copy (not HP's copy) of XP, keeps corrupting files, I might reconsider.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
gevatter Lars said:
Hey at least a normal person ^_^

@Warzog
We won't surely not ask anyone to shut down the mod and you got a PM hope that we can now clear everything to go back to normal.

You forgot to read your note.
 

warzog

Spaceman
No, I read it.
The "P" in PM stands for "Private."
I just felt like keeping it that way. ;)
And I never thought that they were trying to shut the mod down.
Just expressing legitimate concerns over something that belongs to them.
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
I was referring to Lars. He was going on about how he posted a note telling himself not to visit the CIC anymore at the Saga private board (just after threatening some people).
 

Starman©

Spaceman
warzog said:
Now, if someone could help me find out why my Athlon powered HP Pavilion computer, with an MSN copy (not HP's copy) of XP, keeps corrupting files, I might reconsider.

Tough problem. I'm not really that good in these technicall matter, but it sounds like your harddisk or some other component required for data-transfer is damaged and loosing bytes, which will corrupt the files in the end.

I doubt that this can be done by a software-error or the OS (or a virus), you might probably bring it to some repairing-institute, if this problem occurs that often. On the other hand, if your finance allows, I would first go after a new harddisk, they aren't that expensive, and in the worst case you will have two HD's in the end, if the error is elsewhere
 

Edx

Spaceman
Yea I second that. Get a new hard disk and copy the whole lot. Thats what Id probably do anyway

Ed
 

warzog

Spaceman
gevatter Lars:
Were you aware that you can't/won't/don't receive PM messages?
Kinda hard to answer ya.

Starman:
Wish I could afford to get a new one, but I can't.
However, now that you mention hardware issues...
It might be the motherboard, or disk controller.
My CD-ROM can't read disks made on my DVD-RW drive.
In fact, it occasionally can't read anything.
Perhaps the two are related?
 

Starman©

Spaceman
warzog said:
My CD-ROM can't read disks made on my DVD-RW drive.
In fact, it occasionally can't read anything. Perhaps the two are related?

Possible. I had this earlier, that some CD-Roms didn't read any selfburned disks, but when you say it doesn't read CD's at all it can be really possible, that the IDE-Bus on your motherboard (or just the cable) is damaged (but in that case, the harddisk shouldn't work at all too)

Try changing the primary IDE-Cable with a new one. Since you have a DVD-RW I presume it is connected to the secondary IDE-Bus. You can also try to hang the CD-Rom onto the secondary BUS too, to see if that helps.

If so, it might be possible that the primary IDE-BUS on the mainboard is damaged. (but I doubt that, as said, I think in that case the harddisk wouldn't work any proper at all). I guess it is either the cable, the CD-Rom or maybe the HD itself.

Though these are just suggestions like I would do it, I'm not really that hardware-freak. I can't gurantee of course, that any of these tips help or not. But it may be worth a try.

Starman©
 

warzog

Spaceman
Something that finally clicked, made me realize that there may be some confusion about the Reckoning, and it's "TEAM."

In October 2003 I decided to check out Freelancer, as I heard that it was alot like Privateer.
When I did a search on it, I came across Lancer's Reactor, and discovered that Freelancer could be modded.
I purchased Freelancer, taught myself how to mod it, and made the first of my "Equalizer" mods.
When I was ready, I started doing some research to find data on the original Privateer.
To my surprise, it led me back to Lancer's Reactor, and to Bob McDob & Tolwyn, who, along with Acid, were working on the Reckoning mod.
Acid had just left the team to pursue other things, So I requested, and was granted permission, to join the team working on the mod.

Being an obnoxious, take-charge, kinda guy, I sorta took over the mod.
Tolwyn, upon seeing the mod take off as it did, left the team to concentrate on WC-Saga.
(Which left me & Bob McDob as it's only members.)

I searched through Lancer's Reactor's download section, and discovered a couple of Wing Commander ships, and some Privateer equipment.
I ask for, and was granted permission, to use the Privateer Sensor icons, the Banshee, and the TCS Vesuvius ships.
(See the mod's credits.)

When Lancer's Reactor started several Mod-Specific forums, I jumped at the offer!
(It's the 2nd most posted to Mod-Specific forum on Lancer's Reactor.)

Over time I found Swift, who did all of our other icons, and Sadra, who made the Tarsus and Privateer mines.
(Swift got bored of FL and left, and Sadra's joined another mod.)

However, the only permanent members have always been Bob McDob, and myself.
(And with my leaving, the only "TEAM" member left, is Bob McDob.)
 

Viper61

Spaceman
I'd like to release a statement on the behalf of myself and the Saga members. To keep from further polluting the Reckonings forum, the statement is a link to a PDF (since releasing it in MSWord format may not allow everyone to view the document).

WC:Saga Statement

Those with older Acrobat versions may have a problem following the hyperlinks (it may try to download the website and convert it to PDF), but this can be resolved by holding Shift before clicking the link.

C-ya
 

Bandit LOAF

Long Live the Confederation!
A PDF file is pretty awkward to reply to.

The indignation that I'd dare be able to read your internal board is insane -- I simply posted quotes forwarded to me (or TC, rather) by a member of your team. I don't see any breach of trust on my part.

It bothers me, though, that your reaction was 'how could *they* do this?' rather than seeing that you've done anything wrong. The fact that you're using a private forum to complain about/threaten other Wing Commander mods is very relevant to the issue the original post brought up.

I'll happily address my own bias'. Yes, I hate Freespace. Until very recently, however, my claim has always been the very easy-to-make, amusing-in-debates that Freespace looks very nice once it's been remade and given Wing Commander's intellectual property. I haven't been happy with Saga in recent weeks, for the exact same sort of egotism everyone took from Starman's post. I posted something to SpaceBattles to the effect that the Wing Commander Standoff mod looked nicer than the Star Trek being discussed -- the result was, somehow, a nasty private message from one of your team members about how I was damaging Saga's reputation.

... and that's the exact same attitude I saw here when I decided to stand up for Bob and Reckoning. From the original post, it seemed like your mod had decided to crush the little guy because they'd actually published. My understanding is that debate over models has been around forever. I've talked to people on both mods in the past, concerned over the issue. It seemed to me that you all decided to make it public the minute Reckoning should be enjoying some success.

The idea that one Wing Commander mod is big and powerful and has the right to boss around others is very wrong -- and I think the Standoff and Privateer members saw the same thing.

(You're also purposefully misreading my take on the models and credit. Yes, I agree that the technical work of building a copy of a model or redesigning the textures deserves credit. I don't think it deserves *the* credit, though -- and look at Tolwyn's WC model site. Who designed the TCS Murphy? Some guy named Steele, apparently. This plays into the original issue - mods need some humility. If I can lay down rules in my community to force some on them, I'll do that.

And as I told Lars when he private messaged me at the beginning of this mess, people copy things I've written/created/etc. from the CIC *all the time*. This very Privateer mod included segments of my map redesign without crediting me. People copy my timeline (one guy edits out the movie references -- poorly!), people *sell* the Academy episodes I digitized... try finding a WC ship guide on the internet that *doesn't* use our /ships screenshots. Heck, the Japanese took articles I wrote and put them on their release of the DVD!

And sure, it bugs me on occasion -- but it's also why I'm here in the first place, so I don't go after it at all. The only time I've ever contacted anyone about copying our material is when they're hotloading it -- linking directly to our server. Of all the times I've seen my map show up, I've only ever e-mailed anyone to ask that they credit Captain Johnny for the original design. This is all an extreme... no one should expect you to simply give away your models -- but your job is to make a mod, not to spend time attacking others. Even if the Reckoning was wrong (and they may well be), you should either take care of it in private or leave judgement up to the community -- we're a pretty smart group.
 
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