Mekt-Hakkikt
Mpanty's bane
That is almost as stupid s the German's plan to bombard England with false notes, so that their economy would crash.
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- Thread starter Shooter
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That is almost as stupid s the German's plan to bombard England with false notes, so that their economy would crash.
It sounds silly, but its true! It was one of the many things that was kept secret from the public, both in Europe and in the US. They did not want to stir up panic since Europe was already taking cover on a nightly basis and the people in the US would have simply freaked out. A couple did manage to find their way to the US and detonate but the military passed it off as weapons tests. The bombs did no damage and caused no casulties.
RFB
RFB
Yep, that was Sabaro Saki, Japan's top surviving Ace of WW2. Unlike Bader though, he never really came back from his injury. While he scored over a 100 kills before it, the loss of peripheral vision and depth perception from the loss of his eye meant that he achieved only three kills afterwards, and narrowly missed being ambushed and killed by US fighters.
The other strength the Zero had was in its ability to out-turn virtually any other fighter in a dogfight in the horizontal plane. Even pilots flying the Spitfire (whose turning ability was legendry in Europe) learned to avoid that sort of fight in the Pacific. As for the cannon, they were twin 20mm weapons mounted in the wings, IIRC.
Best, Raptor
Well, yeas and no. In the early part of war, Japanese pilots were well trained, experianced (many having fought in China) and were extremely deadly. The extremely rigourous training programme the Japanese had for their pilots, which ensured high quality but low numbers, backfired on them later on though. They just didn't have enough pilots coming through to replace the losses even from their victious camaigns, let alone disasters like Midway. By the second half of the war, pilot quality had degraded massively.
Best, Raptor
Originally posted by Hobbie
Raptor (forgot to comment on this)- Good point about kill scores- I agree that kill scores don't determine a pilot's success. Adolf Galland's kill score was relatively low when compared to other German aces. But, he was one of the most feared Axis pilots because he had great flying ability. I consider him to be one of the true warriors in the war. He loved flying, not the killing. He survived the war and I believe did some important post-war things in Germany. Hartmann is probably overrated, but you can't deny that you must be good to have 150+ kills.
It was closer to 350+
(352, IIRC.) In his own autobiography "The Blond Knight of Germany" Hartmann himself says that he didn't consider himself Germany's top fighter pilot. That was because most of his kills were against the Russians, and he considered that one British or American fighter was equivalent to two or three Russian aircraft.Best, Raptor
I suck at remembering numbers and most dates 
Are you sure about the Zero, maybe late model versions (named Nates, I think) had double cannon, but I seem to remember a singled cannon mounted below the propeller. Maybe I am thinking of another fighter? Speaking of pilots, the U.S. pilots got better during the war because their training was better (the Japanese required lots of time to train compared to the Americans, if given the full time, Japanese training was better, but because of time constraints they had to hurry pilots). The Japanese had a brilliant commander in Yamamoto. He was shot down though in a Betty bomber. Yamamoto, Rommel, and that Russian general (damn, can't remember- Zac something- help me out Raptor ) were the best generals of the war IMO. You can go on for hours about Patton and I will always disagree with you..
Are you sure about the Zero, maybe late model versions (named Nates, I think) had double cannon, but I seem to remember a singled cannon mounted below the propeller. Maybe I am thinking of another fighter? Speaking of pilots, the U.S. pilots got better during the war because their training was better (the Japanese required lots of time to train compared to the Americans, if given the full time, Japanese training was better, but because of time constraints they had to hurry pilots). The Japanese had a brilliant commander in Yamamoto. He was shot down though in a Betty bomber. Yamamoto, Rommel, and that Russian general (damn, can't remember- Zac something- help me out Raptor ) were the best generals of the war IMO. You can go on for hours about Patton and I will always disagree with you..
Quarto
Unknown Enemy
Well, of course that would depend on how you define "the US"... I mean, Roosevelt desperately wanted to get in on the action. Indeed, he was far from unhappy when Hitler declared war on the US. And as for the public, I doubt that the isolationist segment was really in majority at the time... as you know, political influence depends not on numbers, but on wealth.
TC
SubCrid
Of course the government was listening to the people... the military didn't manipulate them at all... The fact that the US was warned by other governments that Pearl Harbour was going to be attacked and the US had all of it's good ships out of the harbour at the time doesn't look odd at all...
TC
Originally posted by Hobbie
I suck at remembering numbers and most dates
Maybe you're thinking of the BF-109 instead. There were versions of that had a single cannon firing through the proppeller boss. There were also a couple of Russian fighters with that cannon configuration. Just about all the combat version of the Zero though, had twin 20mm cannon in the wings and twin machine guns in the engine cowling.
Best, Raptor
Supdon3
Kal-El
Im pretty sure at the time the general public was content to let things in Europe handle themselves. Everyday people were struggling through the Depression and were dealing with that. THough things started to pick up, we dont know if the Depression in the US would have ended if not for the war. But for the most part people were trying to take care of themselves. Then of course when Pearl Harbor was bombed nationalism took over and the public was by and large behind the war effort.
Quarto
Unknown Enemy
Ack, it's that conspiracy theory again
. I read a Roosevelt biography a few months back which proved quite well that not only is this theory false, but it's also silly. Roosevelt was stuck in an extremely delicate situation - on the one hand, he didn't want war with the Japanese, but on the other hand, if he pulled his fleet out of Pearl Harbour it would look like he's backing down and essentially he'd be giving the Japanese permission to run amok in the Pacific (which would get him in trouble with the non-isolationist part of the public). Then there's Europe... as the U-Boot war intensified, he wanted to borrow the Pearl Harbour fleet for convoy escorts in the Atlantic, and indeed the non-isolationists (and the UK) all wanted him to do so - but if he sent in too many ships, it would look like he was gearing up for war against Germany (which would get him in trouble with the isolationists, a very powerful faction in the Senate). As for the threat of attack on Pearl Harbour, no amount of intelligence could have prepared him for a sneak attack. Sneak attacks were totally unheard of at this time; it is standard procedure to declare war first .So you see, Roosevelt really couldn't afford to do anything. He had to wait.
Supdon3
Kal-El
Plus the fact that any attack at all on the US would have been sufficent to put us in the war. Roosevelt would not have needed to have let all those sailors and civilians die, and let nearly the entire Pacific fleet be taken out when those ships were going to be needed right away. Plus the fact that he wouldnt have let that happen under any circumstances. To hell with anyone who says otherwise.
O.K. I know that I was away for sometime but...
1) The US have broken the purple code (Japonese diplomatic code) and know all that was transmited to US japonese ambassador.
2) The Pearl harbor fleet was most of battleships, if used in Atlantic convoys U-Boats would get nice shoots to important ships (The US DID used, or better borrowed to UK old, WW I battleships that were modified to work as escort ship)
3)There was a embargo of oil to Japan by the US, I belive that US forced Japan to attack.
4) Pearl Harbor was not expected be attaced so soon in the war also US at that time belived the Japonese planes/pilots inferior, that was a error.
5) There was a upgraded version of the Zero with four cannons but the name I cannot remember at this time.
6) ME 262 were send to japan but the U-Boat with the parts was sunk, but Japan using (if memory serves) a manual that was send before was able to make a "house" version but it never seen combat.
1) The US have broken the purple code (Japonese diplomatic code) and know all that was transmited to US japonese ambassador.
2) The Pearl harbor fleet was most of battleships, if used in Atlantic convoys U-Boats would get nice shoots to important ships (The US DID used, or better borrowed to UK old, WW I battleships that were modified to work as escort ship)
3)There was a embargo of oil to Japan by the US, I belive that US forced Japan to attack.
4) Pearl Harbor was not expected be attaced so soon in the war also US at that time belived the Japonese planes/pilots inferior, that was a error.
5) There was a upgraded version of the Zero with four cannons but the name I cannot remember at this time.
6) ME 262 were send to japan but the U-Boat with the parts was sunk, but Japan using (if memory serves) a manual that was send before was able to make a "house" version but it never seen combat.
Shooter
Rear Admiral
O.K., but the destruction of all those ships in Pearl Harbour was decisive for the U.S. to win the war. It forced them to rebuild most of the navy with new and better ships.
Remember the te majority of the ships sunked in Pearl Harbour had many years of service. And the U.S. Navy inteligence knew about the large Jap. task force heading for P.H. . I guess they thought they would never atack.
Remember the te majority of the ships sunked in Pearl Harbour had many years of service. And the U.S. Navy inteligence knew about the large Jap. task force heading for P.H. . I guess they thought they would never atack.
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
Not selling oil to Japan is hardly a reason for them to launch a surprise attack...
I mean, I'm not selling oil to Japan *RIGHT NOW*!
AHHH!
I mean, I'm not selling oil to Japan *RIGHT NOW*!
AHHH!
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
Sure I am... I spend lots of money on useless Japanese WC products!
Supdon3
Kal-El
No one is going to take the chance and send warning to an Ambassador in the country your going to attack. They may have warned that at some point they were going to attack, but they didnt send a message to the man revealing the exact details before the attack. That would have been stupid.