Kilrathi on Assassinations

M

Miracynonyx100

Swabbie
Banned
While Fleet Action said that Assassination was something the Kilrathi didn't evne have a word for... I'd have to say the WC Bible should be taken more seriously here...

The Kilrathi are a ruthless race who if they weren't fighting us Humans they'd fight themselves... if anything Assassination sounds accurate in the WC Bible as being common maneuvers

What does everybody here think


Victoria Kent
 
Assassination from the shadows is very different from the face to face stand-up fighting that the Kilrathi love.
 
When a noble Kil wanted his lord dead, he would challenge him to a duel to the death, not have him poisoned or shot from hiding. I would presume that Kilrathi honor codes would say that it would have been greatly shameful for the lord to have refused a valid challenge to a duel.
 
Ijuin said:
When a noble Kil wanted his lord dead, he would challenge him to a duel to the death, not have him poisoned or shot from hiding. I would presume that Kilrathi honor codes would say that it would have been greatly shameful for the lord to have refused a valid challenge to a duel.
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Kilrathi honor is a unique point of view... keep in mind these are the same people who attacked a virtually unarmed people on countless occasions (Goddard, Locanda, etc.), (in the losing version) committed mass genocide, murdered unarmed pows, shot down ejected pilots, tricked the TC into a truce which they then were able to slaughter all of the politicians of Earth w/ a suicide bomber... I could go on all day... its seems the Kilrathi code of honor is not a true warriors code, more like a code of convenience.

When I think of honor, I think more to a code of Chivalry and the Klingon Warrior... it always seemed (at least post TOS) that the Klingons lived by a very strict code where if you even thought about killing someone who was unarmed you were instantly dishonored and shuned by the entire empire.

Hehehehe... I'd say it would be interesting to see the Klingons and Kilrathi go at it, but I don't want to get the entire place mad at me for starting a "Spacebattles thread"
 
Miracynonyx100 said:
While Fleet Action said that Assassination was something the Kilrathi didn't evne have a word for... I'd have to say the WC Bible should be taken more seriously here...

The Kilrathi are a ruthless race who if they weren't fighting us Humans they'd fight themselves... if anything Assassination sounds accurate in the WC Bible as being common maneuvers

What does everybody here think


Victoria Kent
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Just to be sure: as long as the part in the Bible is not in any published product, the published product shows what is true.

Problem is, concerning assassinations: while FA tells us it is an alien concept to the Kilrathi, IIRC the WC 3 manual tells us that they are perfectly normal. Though that may have been propaganda.

The Kilrathi honour system is difficult to understand. Most of the time, I think it is implied they have a honour system that is supposed to work like the Klingon's or Japanese. And to be fair, the false truce and the poisining of Locanda were matters that were difficult to justify for the Kilrathi but they were desperate.

It seems to me that the Kilrathi value strength, courage and so on, meaning that they do not shy away from combat but that does not mean that they are protective of the weak. On the contrary, it seems that everybody who is weak, a prey species, has no inherent worth and you do not have to obey any rules towards him.
It makes the Kilrathi just more alien.
 
Maybe the Kilrathi concept of honor is not so simple and well defined. Although the core tenets of that honor code are clearly uphold by any honor-bound Kilrathi warrior, it's possible that many other notions are not equally accepted by every clan. Thrakath was above assassination attempts on fellow Kilrathi nobles, but not above taking hostages among enemy species, a practice shunned by many other Kilrathi as dishonored. Also, while Thrak and Melek had trouble in grasping the concept of surrendering, many other kats proved to be more "knowledgeable" about this.

It's also possible that many of the more subtle and complex aspects of the kilrathi honor code are still being debated to death by Kilrathi philosophers and simplified beyond all recognition by the warriors in the frontlines - especially the Kilra'hra ones.
 
I agree with Sycrusian -- it would make sense. (Also, it would make the distinctions among the clans more interesting, and it seems that the overall WC storyline is progressing in a direction where there ARE significant differences between the various clans, given that they're going to war with each other now... Heck, I want to see an Arena-era storyline-based game set among Kilrathi pilots now. Mmmm.)
 
The Bible doesn't carry the same weight as other sources.

The first we see of a Kilrathi attempt assassination is Jukaga during FA. Prior to that the Kilrathi have no experience with the concept as we define it. As others have said the Kilrathi sense of honor is something that is extremely important to their culture. Think of some of the Palace scenes between the lesser of the noble clans. They are straight out fights, nothing done in the shadows.
 
While Fleet Action said that Assassination was something the Kilrathi didn't evne have a word for... I'd have to say the WC Bible should be taken more seriously here...
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For what purpose? The interesting thing about the Kilrathi is that they *aren't* just furry Klingons - why insist on making them more generic? The fact that evil the most generic Kilathi villains to follow a noticably 'alien' code of honor makes them interesting, not wrong. What's the benefit in contradicting Fleet Action?

Kilrathi honor is a unique point of view... keep in mind these are the same people who attacked a virtually unarmed people on countless occasions (Goddard, Locanda, etc.), (in the losing version) committed mass genocide, murdered unarmed pows, shot down ejected pilots, tricked the TC into a truce which they then were able to slaughter all of the politicians of Earth w/ a suicide bomber... I could go on all day... its seems the Kilrathi code of honor is not a true warriors code, more like a code of convenience.
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There's the rub - *people*. The Kilrathi code of honor doesn't necessarily extend to how they treat prey species.

Problem is, concerning assassinations: while FA tells us it is an alien concept to the Kilrathi, IIRC the WC 3 manual tells us that they are perfectly normal. Though that may have been propaganda.
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As Fleet Action and the Wing Commander III novelization explain, assassination is something the Kilrathi learn from us. In 2668-69 there were three 'human style' assassination attempts against the Emperor - so the Victory Streak reference is correct. Beyond that, the more ordered system of honorable challenges is probably considered a form of assassination by human observers.

The Bible doesn't carry the same weight as other sources.
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It doesn't carry any weight - it's a historical curiosity, not a canonical source.
 
Bandit LOAF said:
(...)

As Fleet Action and the Wing Commander III novelization explain, assassination is something the Kilrathi learn from us. In 2668-69 there were three 'human style' assassination attempts against the Emperor - so the Victory Streak reference is correct. (...)
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Ok but (the German translation of) VS reads more like assassinations were part of Kilrathi politics since the beginning.
 
Yeah, I think the English one says something similar - but I'm thinking that it refers more to the formal system that allows challenging a superior to attain his position rather than the 'lone nut with a sniper rifle' sort of a thing we assosciate with the word.
 
Here is my take on Kilrathi honor

They will treat equals fairly, but prey species, almost anything goes.
Humans were promoted as equals in Action Stations, but demoted back to prey species in Fleet Action because of Jukaga's fail attempt.

The False Treaty was looked down upon by other Kilrathi Noble's beside the Emperor, Thrakath, and Jukaga because it seemed dishonorable. The actual treaty part, though.

There are certain rules in a one on one fight...as Hunter found out in Freedom Flight...(after kicking the Kilrathi in the balls)

And some other things that I can't remember right now.
 
If the Kats wanted a fair duel among nobles, they should have both been given Epee's the winner is the one who actually has the guts to climb into the cockpit. :)
 
Ijuin said:
When a noble Kil wanted his lord dead, he would challenge him to a duel to the death, not have him poisoned or shot from hiding. I would presume that Kilrathi honor codes would say that it would have been greatly shameful for the lord to have refused a valid challenge to a duel.
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How far does that go though? I'm sure that there are many Kilrathi across the empire, both noble and lowborn who could take Thrakhath in hand to hand combat (not to mention the elderly Emperor), but it's not as though they can get a crack at them simply by issuing a challenge to a duel.

QuailPilot said:
Epee is not a piece of shit like you make it out to be
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You're probably going to be outvoted on that one.
 
The Kilrathi are a predatory species, and just like humans, some Kilrathi generally believe they shouldn't harm others unless they violate the societal and cultural norms. But like you'd see in any predatory species are sociopaths and psychopaths -- people who have no conscience; no qualms about even hurting their own, and like most people of the like, they're very good at manipulating religion and moral codes to justify their actions. Thrakkath strikes me as a psychopath.

Victoria Kent
 
Epee isn't the greatest thing in the world, but I'm not a hater of it.

It's good in experienced hands...

BUT lets keep this in the Epee gripes thread ok ;)?

Thrakkath doesn't exactly strike me as a psycopath.
 
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