Iraq or N. Korea? Or neither?

Who should America strike first, Iraq, N. Korea, or niether?

  • Iraq

    Votes: 16 32.0%

  • North Korea

    Votes: 7 14.0%

  • Neither

    Votes: 12 24.0%

  • Other

    Votes: 3 6.0%

  • Who cares? They'll just end up bombing Canadians again anyway.

    Votes: 12 24.0%
  • Total voters
    50
Overblown? Well, under US Naval regulations, the use of deadly force is autherised in the case of protecting nuclear weapons. I'd say that it's pretty significent in that case.

You wish all countries had nukes? How come?
 
Originally posted by Phillip Tanaka
Overblown? Well, under US Naval regulations, the use of deadly force is autherised in the case of protecting nuclear weapons. I'd say that it's pretty significent in that case.
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Blah? Wouldn't that make the possibility of them being stolen, *less*... Protecting things makes the possibility of them being stolen *less* significant.
 
Originally posted by Phillip Tanaka
You wish all countries had nukes? How come?
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For decades, nobody gave a rat's ass about the Pakistan-India conflict. The UN tried to negotiate an end to it, but without other states to pressure India and Pakistan into mediation, it was a doomed effort. Then both countries developed nuclear weapons... and guess what? Rather than nuclear armageddon, the result has been that suddenly, everybody wants to resolve the conflict.
 
I agree with Quarto. If everyone had nukes it would put us all on equal footing, and the world would need to start helping each other a bit more.
 
Originally posted by TC
Blah? Wouldn't that make the possibility of them being stolen, *less*... Protecting things makes the possibility of them being stolen *less* significant.
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What I mean is, sure, the use of deadly force is autherised, but these weapons have to be guarded first. I'm sure the situation would have changed in light of September 11, but during Blowjob Bill's time as President, it was rediculously easy for Red Cell, the Navy SEAL team that tested government and military security, to break into and set off "explosives" everywhere from a nuclear sub pen to Air Force One. If they were real tangos, America would have it's own Chernobyl and the President would be without his personal plane. And yes, some say the Richard Marcinko novels I read and get some of this from are consistantly fictional, but Red Cell was real enough, and I believe it when they say how poorly guarded some of the most important The Office of the Commander in Chief of the US Naval Forces in Europe, Richard swears, has a unsecured smoker's door that will get anyone inside, past all the security.

Originally posted by Quarto
For decades, nobody gave a rat's ass about the Pakistan-India conflict. The UN tried to negotiate an end to it, but without other states to pressure India and Pakistan into mediation, it was a doomed effort. Then both countries developed nuclear weapons... and guess what? Rather than nuclear armageddon, the result has been that suddenly, everybody wants to resolve the conflict.
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I can understand that line of thinking, in terms of trying to prevent a nuclear apocalypse, yes? However, let's say that Afghanistan, under Taliban rule, had nuclear weapons. The Taliban are the type to want a nuclear apocalypse brought down on unbelievers. I believe this because of the following text. And feel free to tell me that you believe this\don't believe it\that it's full of shit if you like. I don't particularly mind. In fact, I want to hear what you think of this text, and the reasons why.

Okay---on to plan B. I broke through his monologue again. "And what, pray, did (the Koran) tell you?"
He brushed my sarcasm aside. "That redemption was within my grasp," he said, his expression tranquil. "God promises those who believe in him lush gardens irrigatted by cool waters where they will live forever in great houses, graced by God's presence."
I looked at Lord Brookfield and edged an inch closer in his direction. "You recite Allah's promise to the true believers."
He looked cooly back at me. "I choose to think of it as the Prophet's promose to Martyrs. The following verse, Captain, says, 'Make war on unbelievers and hypocrites. Deal with them unmercifully.'"
I moved again. "With terror? Through biological warfare?" Todd Stewert held his ground as I spoke.
"If that is what it takes," said Brookfield. "These canisters are simply a means to an end."
I moved once more. "The end being?"
"Islamic unity. Islamic unity cannot be bought, as the Saudis and others have tried to do. It cannot be achieved by coexistence through the West---as those who have been subsidised by your country to make peace with Israel will discover. It must be earned---earned through struggle and redemption. It can be fulfilled only by following my plan."
 
Originally posted by Phillip Tanaka
However, let's say that Afghanistan, under Taliban rule, had nuclear weapons. The Taliban are the type to want a nuclear apocalypse brought down on unbelievers.
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Contrary to popular belief, Muslim fanatics, like Christian fanatics and Jewish fanatics, are not the least bit interested in destroying the world. They're willing to die, but they do perceive the difference between martyrdom and mass suicide. Thus, like everyone else, their use of nuclear weapons would be hampered by the notion of mutually assured destruction.

I believe this because of the following text. And feel free to tell me that you believe this\don't believe it\that it's full of shit if you like. I don't particularly mind. In fact, I want to hear what you think of this text, and the reasons why.
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It's a text. I don't know where it came from, I don't know who the speakers are supposed to be and/or if they even exist. For all I know, this could be an extract from a Tom Clancy novel. Therefore, at this point, I think nothing of it at all. But feel free to ask again after you explain the details of where it came from and such.
 
Okay. The text is from the Richard Marcinko novel Green Team, where the main villian, it turns out, is one Lord Brookfield. A member of the British military and a part of the Royal family, Brookfield was once kidnapped by Islamic terrorists. But he fell prey to Stockholm Syndrome, and was now devising a plan to use BWR (real bad biological warfare rat shit) on a number of countries. He had enough to take out half of America. Slip it into the water system and kill two million tomorrow. Anyway, the people in that text were Marcinko, Brookfield, and Brookfield's bodyguard Todd Stewert, when Brookfield has straped himself to one of the BWR canisters and threatening to kill himself and all of London if his demands are not met. Sure, Green Team is meant to be fictional, but I would think the quoted text would be an accurate representation of what someone like Brookfield would believe.
 
Originally posted by Phillip Tanaka
Sure, Green Team is meant to be fictional, but I would think the quoted text would be an accurate representation of what someone like Brookfield would believe.
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Yes, as someone like this fellow, by definition, would have to believe similar things. Otherwise they'd hardly be alike. Using a fictional character as proof of something seems rather absurd.
 
Maybe. But then, wouldn't there have been an outcry if this point of view was embellished? Nah, on second thought, perhaps not, considering how much they've done it with other things such as North Korea and the American government.

While I'm here, I neglected to tell you about something else I read. Steve Hartman, the real life Stevie Wonder from the Rogue Warrior novels and former weapons inspector (the dude who can, alledgedly, used the dreaded F word in ways to make Bruce Willis envious), has a solution to Iraq, and it's a good one, and I'm going to tell you RIGHT NOW.

If I were in charge, I'd go after Saddam's money. Cut off his cash directly, wherever you can. Then set up an aid program that goes directly to the people. Fly the food and the supplies in, then let the U.N. or some aid organisation oversee the distribution. Keep it out of the hands of the Iraqi government. Go after the hearts and minds of the people. The sactions we've got now are just hurting the people.
 
Originally posted by Quarto
For decades, nobody gave a rat's ass about the Pakistan-India conflict. The UN tried to negotiate an end to it, but without other states to pressure India and Pakistan into mediation, it was a doomed effort. Then both countries developed nuclear weapons... and guess what? Rather than nuclear armageddon, the result has been that suddenly, everybody wants to resolve the conflict.
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Yeah.... but what was the reason that they rushed to stop it all. They didnt want it to get out of hand and for them to blow each other away. But gee.... let me think.... how are Pakistan and Iraq different.... Oh yeah.... one (Iraq) is run by a complete lunitic who has some nasty weapons and is willing to use it to get some attention . I have to disagree, I think if everyone had nukes then the US would be in serious trouble. You may say its our own fault anyways... and you might be right... but part of the reason is also becuase we've pissed off quite a few people doing what the UN wants us to do.
 
Originally posted by Maniac II
Yeah.... but what was the reason that they rushed to stop it all. They didnt want it to get out of hand and for them to blow each other away.
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Yes, but that's precisely why Pakistan developed nuclear weapons in the first place - doing so put them on an even footing with India. Suddenly, all-out war ceased to be an option. And notice how it's only Pakistan, not India, that threatens to use nuclear weapons in the case of a war. Why? Because as the underdog, it is obviously in Pakistan's interest to dissuade India from attacking, and to encourage other countries to intervene.

But gee.... let me think.... how are Pakistan and Iraq different.... Oh yeah.... one (Iraq) is run by a complete lunitic who has some nasty weapons and is willing to use it to get some attention.
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I bow before your superior mind-reading abilities. To be honest, I'm really jealous of you now. I can think of millions of situations where telepathy would be oh, so useful. Especially when we're talking about abilities sufficient to reach all the way to Iraq. I don't suppose this is something you can teach me?

I do apologise... faced with such nonsense, I simply couldn't resist the sarcasm.

Originally posted by Phillip Tanaka
Okay. The text is from the Richard Marcinko novel Green Team,
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Well, in that case, it would be an utter waste of time for me to comment on it, except to point out that the writer had an obvious interest in making the bad guys look as bad as possible. Mild-mannered terrorists that object to using biological weapons and are actually quite squeamish about the whole killing thing would make for a great comedy, but I don't think that's this Marcinko's specialty.

As for that idea... well, it's not exactly different to the idea of declaring war. Because that's the only way you'll get the Iraqi government to agree to essentially giving up all their power, as Hartman's idea would require them to.
 
I wouldn't know. It might not be possible to send food and supplies to the people of Iraq without having Saddam effectively surrender. But that is what would happen if America did this, and Steve Hartman probably knows a lot more about whether or not it is possible than any of us would.
 
Originally posted by Quarto
I bow before your superior mind-reading abilities. To be honest, I'm really jealous of you now. I can think of millions of situations where telepathy would be oh, so useful. Especially when we're talking about abilities sufficient to reach all the way to Iraq. I don't suppose this is something you can teach me?

I do apologise... faced with such nonsense, I simply couldn't resist the sarcasm.
Click to expand...


Chuck E. Cheese Says: "Buckle up! It makes it harder for the Kilirathi to cuck u out of ur car!"
 
here is an interestiong tid-bit, before the gulf war, Iraq was recieving food aide from the US. this was big bucks, im talking billions of dollars. Saddom was selling the food that was free to him, to other countries to turn around and by weapons to army his army. even Al Gore called it the biggest rip off of the American tax payer. So we payed for Saddom's army....

just something to think about.
 
I don't think we could have known. And, that ex Navy SEAL Steve Hartman I mentioned said to set up an aid programe outside of the Iraqi government, because Saddom, as you call him (I think I catch your meaning), would sell off the food supplies for weapons. How do you think the Taliban funded themselves? From the profits they made trying to destroy the western world by flooding it with drugs.
 
Actaully didn't the CIA have a hand in arming the Taliban? I'm not sure but I don't think there are drug cartels in Afghanistan.

And Happy, the US has been supporting a lot of people by way of the CIA. Quite a few schemes have ended up back firing.
 
If not from Afghanistan, I'm sure it was from Afghanistan much of the opium trade comes from, but I could double check, anyway, if not from there then at the very least the Taliban had been flooding the world with drugs to destroy their enemies from within.
 
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