Originally posted by Napoleon
..Preacher, most protestant sects dont have any form of redemption or way to atone for your actions either, and no amount of faith will put you in heaven.
...the vast majority of them believe in an idea that calvin put forward called "predestination". Predestination says that god has before birth determined whether or not you'll go to heaven or hell, so no matter what you do in life, your eternity is already predetermined...
...And the point is that the Petrine doctorine can be debated by both sides, thus you cannot say that the catholics are in error, since you cannot disprove the petrine doctorine anymore than they can prove it, so rather you can say that you disagree with their interpretation of scripture, not that they violate it.
...Islam accepts all the predecessors to it in the jewish and christian faiths, hence mohommed being the last prophet, with all the others being the jewish ones and Jesus.
--Wrong, bub; they - both the CC and Protestants -
do: It's referred to as the atoning death of Christ on the cross. Without that, Christianity itself wouldn't exist, or certainly wouldn't ever have "caught on" the way it has (It is, after all, the central tenet of the faith...). Faith in the finished work of Christ on the cross (and the repentance that naturally goes along with it) is all one needs; "good works" - which unfortunately, the CC emphasizes a bit too much - will not suffice. I could bring you many examples here, but only one should be necessary: The thief crucified with Jesus on the cross (Luke 23:40-43). This guy lived his whole life as a criminal/sinner, and when he was drawing his last breath, he repented of all his wrongs and asked Christ for mercy/forgiveness. JC assured him that he would be in heaven that very day...
--As for the whole predestination thing, that is a subject that could generate a whole 'nother thread like this one on its own; so I can hardly address it adequately here. I will say this much, though: Assuming it's true (and most of Christendom believes it is), God Himself is still the only One who
knows whether a given individual is "written in the Lamb's book of Life" or not. Therefore, it behooves you and I to do whatever we can to meet the "entrance requirements" to get to heaven (see above paragraph). In other words, if a way to get to heaven is given, and those who take that route are guaranteed a ticket there, then TAKE THAT ROUTE!...
Sure, He has predetermined it. But He also was thoughtful enough to outline for us and guarantee the route through which it would be achieved, and that is what the Good News of the gospel (the word"gospel" translates into "good news", BTW) is all about; telling man how he could be sure whether he'll get there or not. Think of it this way: Teachers and professors of mine have guaranteed that I would pass their course if I show up & pay attention in class, read the texts, study hard, and pass all the exams/quizzes. Yet, it was still up to
me to do these things; and sure enough, when I did all these things, I passed...
--As for the Petrine doctrine, I already shot one obvious hole in it; here's something else for y'all to chew on:
The central passage to the Petrine doctrine is Matt 16:13-19, which reads:
When Jesus came to the region of Caesarea Philippi, he asked his disciples, "Who do people say the Son of Man is?"
They replied, "Some say John the Baptist; others say Elijah; and still others, Jeremiah or one of the prophets."
"But what about you?" he asked. "Who do you say I am?"
Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God."
Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."
The CC interprets this the way that it would appear, at first glance in English, is meant: That Peter is the "rock" upon which JC would build the church (and thus the papacy, etc...). The problem with this view is that the original text is in Greek, and is not so straightforward in meaning as the English makes it appear. The definite article in Greek ("this", in English) does not attach to the 'rock' of Peter. The Protestant position is that that "this rock" refers not to Peter, a man, but rather refers instead to the
confession of faith that Peter had just finished making. When viewed in light of the rest of scripture, and the history of Christendom since NT times, this is the more likely rendering of the two. Think about it: The church was not built on the foundation of a single man, but on the foundation of the faith of
all men who have believed; including and since the 12 apostles. Indeed, similar could be said for the "church" of Judaism and of Islam: they are built not on
what Jacob/Mohammed said, but on the collective
faith of their adherents at any given point in time.
Inasmuch as the definite article is (ironically enough) vague - not attaching itself to
either Peter or his declaration of faith - I will concede to you that error cannot definitively be proven from the text... However, I still maintain that the overall context of history and common sense certainly indicate that the CC's interpretation is, at least, suspect...
--Um, in case you forgot, Jesus
was a Jew. Second, none of what you said above alters the fact that they do NOT share scriptures in common with Jews/Christians, whereas the latter two do share a common scriptural basis.