Favorite Wing Commander Movie Scene

[Phillip Tanaka]

Originally posted by TC
Wow, where did you get that?

It was from a movie review I think. Um, geez, where was it? I'll try and find it.

 

[LeHah]

Originally posted by Dougie
Dear Lehah, I'm afraid i am simply asking you to agree with my interpretation of the shots in the movie.

But that would make me as wrong as you.

LOAFs was an ambiguous answer, mine was more specific. Do you agree with my re-telling of the shots in the film, or do you have no eyeballs?

I have eyeballs. But I also have the ability to form my own opinion, which is just as valid or invalid as yours. I happen to agree with LOAF's not because I'm a groupie, but because I'm not a goose-stepper like yourself, who attempts to force that he's right in an arguement but doesn't show evidence good enough to support it.

It's not a hard question. I'm not saying LOAF has no eyeballs, his answer is simply vague, but you choose, basically, to trust a vague description over a specific description without even consulting the seemingly anal abundance of material you have about the source.

You are correct. I did not get up off my ass to watch that segment of the film. I happen to work two jobs during the week and rather enjoy having one day off, so pardon me for not getting off my lazy ass once a week to find evidence to prove someone wrong in an internet arguement. Sheesh.

I do support LOAF's view simply because LOAF's track record of being right about Wing Commander is extremely impressive. Just because you are able to form your own opinion does not make it fact but to dispute LOAF's knowledge does lead to another fact: Your're an idiot to dispute him.

Hey, maybe you can tell me what the book says about Knight's death/mircaculous houdini escape act. A direct quote (with no fudging) would do great.

It would be great to find one so we can stop this juvinile arguement... but I'd also like you to find a quote yourself. Leaving all this research to me is kinda unfair, you know?

-knight is still in his chair 0.0 seconds before the shot where his broadsword is suddenly a ball of vapour. This is surely UNDISPUTABLE.

If it's undisputable, why am I, TC, Wild Weasel and LOAF not agreeing with you. For something to be undisputable, everyone must agree and that certainly is not the case.

When angel ejects, the camera focus is much closer on her fighter, yet it takes much much longer for her rapier and her ejection pod to move to separate fields of view, which leaves the possibility of Knight surviving as close to zero as you can get without it actually being zero. So going by the filmamaking techniques, it is clear that Knight in the movie is very, very dead.

Whos to say Rapier-Bs and Broadswords have the same ejection system?

it is extremely likely that Chris Roberts wasn't thinking 'gosh, this has to tie in with the continuity of the games' when making the movie..

Well, Roberts only wrote the treatment, so he only wrote the bare bones. However a lot of the 'continuity errors' pointed out by people have been solved or disproven by various other sources. In fact, I'm so sure that you're wrong, I'm never going to reply to this arguement again.

I truly, honestly, painfully would love someone to give me anything to help me believe that Chris Roberts produced this movie with the intention of it fitting in with the games.

Well, lets see. The movie has several of the pilots from the games in it. It also has the carrier from WC1 & 2. In fact, there are tons of little things from the games in the movie, down to the sound effect from Privateer 2.

I respect you people for coming up with ways of making the continuity fit, I really do, but if you start believing your fantasies you really are deluding yourselves. I really would love to believe otherwise. Although not too much because the movie is one of the lamest bags of arse I've ever seen.

Changing jobs from 'wrong' to 'asshole', huh?

And Ghost, congratulations. You've brilliantly learned how to quote out of context, thus adding absolutely nothing to the conversation.

Attacking Ghost is like attacking the French in WWII: It's no real acomplishment.

 

[Ghost]

Originally posted by LeHah
Attacking Ghost is like attacking the French in WWII: It's no real acomplishment.

 

[Dougie]

But that would make me as wrong as you.

So i'm wrong, regardless of whether someone else has agreed that that is what happened, it doesn't contradict LOAF and tigersclaw agreed with what i originally said. I'm wrong, and you are so prejudice against me that you refuse to accept any other possibility.

So you

I have eyeballs. But I also have the ability to form my own opinion, which is just as valid or invalid as yours. I happen to agree with LOAF's not because I'm a groupie, but because I'm not a goose-stepper like yourself, who attempts to force that he's right in an arguement but doesn't show evidence good enough to support it.

So you have the ability to from an opinion of your own......
.....yet in this instant you decided to have someone elses.


All I've been doing since the start is giving evidence. More so than someone who uses a circular argument based on an assumption that the movie is part of the same timeline as the games. An assumption that must be un-assumed for the purpose of any form of reasoned debate.

You are correct. I did not get up off my ass to watch that segment of the film. I happen to work two jobs during the week and rather enjoy having one day off, so pardon me for not getting off my lazy ass once a week to find evidence to prove someone wrong in an internet arguement. Sheesh.

So why'd you debate it in the first place?

Changing jobs from 'wrong' to 'asshole', huh?

huh?

I'm basically miffed that people refuse to look at things from my point of view. I don't understand why anyone who says the movie is not intended as official timeline is instantly labelled as 'wrong', black and white, all evidence ignored, or answered by the same tired circular argument. I give my opinion, people say 'no you're wrong' i ask 'why' and you say 'because Knight appears later' or whatever, which falls apart if you look at things from my perspective.

Attacking Ghost is like attacking the French in WWII: It's no real acomplishment.

LeHah knocks ghost, tc knocks lehah. Ghost it appears to redeem your honour you must knock tc. erm.

p.s. I'd like to further add that I'm not actually so sad that I'm violently angry or otherwise emotionally heated over this matter. I just like debating, and as an insomniac british student I have a lot of time on my hands.

 

[TC]

Originally posted by Dougie
All I've been doing since the start is giving evidence. More so than someone who uses a circular argument based on an assumption that the movie is part of the same timeline as the games. An assumption that must be un-assumed for the purpose of any form of reasoned debate.

Um... it's not circular reasoning... it's logic... It's not an assumption that the movie is part of Wing Commander. It is a perfectly 'canon' piece of material.

 

[Dougie]

Um... it's not circular reasoning... it's logic... It's not an assumption that the movie is part of Wing Commander. It is a perfectly 'canon' piece of material.

A sensible enough comment. However I believe because of how he borrows elements from all of the games....bossman's death and angel's pain from it, skipper missiles, angel/blair romance, blair and maniac being friends, crewmates not trusting Blair thinking he's a traitor, bombers etc. that Roberts' plan was not to make it fit with the same 'canon', but indeed views it as an adaptation of the games as a whole, wanting an artistic license any movie maker is entitled to. The movie I feel supports this likelihood.

An example of where this might be the case is with Red Dwarf books (canon in their own right until split between authors etc.) and red dwarf tv show (also having their own continuity, totally separate from the books). Also soon to add the Red Dwarf movie, another separate story, when it is (finally) made.

It's circular reasoning because your point 'the movie is part of the timeline' is based on the main evidence that 'the movie is part of the timeline'.

 

[WildWeasel]

Originally posted by Dougie
It takes about one second I estimate for the ship to turn from a ship to absolutely nothing at all, which fits in with the games quite well (except the 'strangely my fighter is taking time to die i'd like to take this moment to wish you the best' extended deaths).

Yeah, it takes about a second, except for when it doesn't. Nice try.

Yes, that's kind of like a biblical fundamentalist going 'no see that bit of the bible can't be wrong, because it says here in the bible that everything written in it is perfect'. You're using a circular argument. I say that the movie isn't part of the continuity, and it's demonstrated by things *such as*, and especially, Knight's death.

You're doing the exact same thing by assuming that he dies.

Therefore that totally irrelevent point you make, and you would know it was irrelevent if you read everything more carefully and maybe perhaps look at things from *another point of view* for a change, holds no water whatsoever, and isn't therefore as simple as 1+1=2, so your point is totally irrelevent, thank you come again.

You're criticizing us for not considering your point of view? Every single "point" you've raised has been considered and debated on this board countless times over the past few years. We've had plenty of time to form our opinions based on those discussions. You're not exactly giving us any revelations here, you know. We have no reason to reform our opinions based on old news.

 

[DoomsdayPlague]

In my opinoin of the facts and points you have all made of this movie compared to this game it makes me think Chris Roberts was in the mind of making this a what if (like the Twilight Zone) instead of a true to timeline prequel with the fact that the cats were now hairless and the fact that a bunch of the history was either changed abit or rewritten completely out of the story.

 

[Quarto]

Hmm, I'll throw in my five cents here...

Originally posted by Dougie
A sensible enough comment. However I believe because of how he borrows elements from all of the games....bossman's death and angel's pain from it, skipper missiles, angel/blair romance, blair and maniac being friends, crewmates not trusting Blair thinking he's a traitor, bombers etc. that Roberts' plan was not to make it fit with the same 'canon', but indeed views it as an adaptation of the games as a whole, wanting an artistic license any movie maker is entitled to. The movie I feel supports this likelihood.

I agree that Roberts probably didn't intend to make the film fit in as part of the continuity. But I disagree that this means we should consider the movie as not being a part of the continuity. Once you throw one product out, what's to stop you from throwing others out? If we were to do so, we would soon find ourselves coping with a multitude of separate continuities - and each of us would have different ideas about which product fits into which continuity. The 'it doesn't fit in' argument can be made about any WC product, and it is equally justified/unjustified in every case. That way lies madness...

 

[Ghost]

Originally posted by Dougie

-We can assume that that section .....

- ....the actual camera footage seems to overlap itself before and after paladin's headshot.


-...and maybe perhaps look at things from *another point of view* for a change, holds no water whatsoever, and isn't therefore as simple as 1+1=2, so your point is totally irrelevent, thank you come again.

It seems that you assume too much but...

Originally posted by Dougie

An assumption that must be un-assumed for the purpose of any form of reasoned debate.

...So you are the one that can only assume?
So to have a reasoned debate we must not assume things but you can?

Originally posted by Dougie


regardless of whether someone else has agreed that that is what happened, it doesn't contradict LOAF and tigersclaw agreed with what i originally said.

People agreeing with you doesn´t make your assumption a valid one

Originally posted by Dougie


I give my opinion, people say 'no you're wrong' i ask 'why' and you say 'because Knight appears later' or whatever, which falls apart if you look at things from my perspective.

Your perspective could be wrong, you can see a mirage in a desert, but is just a mirage not a reality

Originally posted by Dougie

LeHah knocks ghost, tc knocks lehah. Ghost it appears to redeem your honour you must knock tc. erm.

We have a *level* of cordiality so i don´t need to knock TC or even lower myself to Lehah status

Originally posted by Dougie


It's circular reasoning because your point 'the movie is part of the timeline'

No, it´s logic.
And your point is that the movie isn´t part of the timeline just because you think that Knight is dead.
in your same line of thinking *i only believe what i see in the movie, nothing more* you can think that Adm. Wilson was a poor guy who was killed/captured at the begining of the movie...of course that isn´t the case because he was the main traitor.
And you surely thought that Sansky was killed in the bridge, again a mistake, he was alive.

Originally posted by Dougie

,,,that Roberts' plan was not to make it fit with the same 'canon',

There are no distinct Canonity levels in WC. Games, Books,movie, cartoon all share the same level of canonity and isn´t stated in any official, not-official place that the movie is *more-less* canon than the other things nor that there is more than one timeline

 

[Phillip Tanaka]

Originally posted by Quarto
Hmm, I'll throw in my five cents here...


I agree that Roberts probably didn't intend to make the film fit in as part of the continuity. But I disagree that this means we should consider the movie as not being a part of the continuity. Once you throw one product out, what's to stop you from throwing others out? If we were to do so, we would soon find ourselves coping with a multitude of separate continuities - and each of us would have different ideas about which product fits into which continuity. The 'it doesn't fit in' argument can be made about any WC product, and it is equally justified/unjustified in every case. That way lies madness...

Yup. Ho, just look at X Men to find billions of inconsistancies that'll make your head explode. Or take Smallville, the story of Young Superman. Is this the holy rite, or is it the comics? Or the movie? Or the long gone, dearly missed Lois & Clark? I half jokingly think of the movie as satire. Like a few X Files episodes, where the characters act out of character on purpose to poke fun at the show.

 

[DoomsdayPlague]

don't mean to sidetrack but will for a sec. as this question has been bugging me but since you mentioned it ghost. In the cartoon was Blair and Maniac voiced by Hamill and Wilson? (I haven't seen it in a while)

 

[LeHah]

Yes. And McDowell as Tolwyn.

 

[Ghost]

Then you don´t know what a satire is.

Yes they did the voices and Malcolm McDowell did Tolwyn´s voice

 

[TC]

Originally posted by Phillip Tanaka
Yup. Ho, just look at X Men to find billions of inconsistancies that'll make your head explode. Or take Smallville, the story of Young Superman. Is this the holy rite, or is it the comics? Or the movie? Or the long gone, dearly missed Lois & Clark? I half jokingly think of the movie as satire. Like a few X Files episodes, where the characters act out of character on purpose to poke fun at the show.

That's really not satire... and unlike any of the examples you listed above, future Wing Commander products, if any are made, will take the movie as part of the timeline as they have absolutely every other officially licensed product...

 

[Phillip Tanaka]

Originally posted by TC
That's really not satire... and unlike any of the examples you listed above, future Wing Commander products, if any are made, will take the movie as part of the timeline as they have absolutely every other officially licensed product...

I know it ain't satire, it's just that the way the movie is done makes me think that it was purposely made to not be a part of the games. Hell, I didn't see this the first time it came out because I didn't think it was Wing Commander, I thought it was some sci-fi film with the same name.

 

[Frosty]

That's Earth-shatteringly un-observant of you.

 

[Phillip Tanaka]

Originally posted by Frosty
That's Earth-shatteringly un-observant of you.

Ain't it just? Of course, at the time I was crazy about anything that was Resident Evil, then Evangellion, then other Japanese animation, and basically ignored anything that wasn't those.

 

[TCSTigersClaw]

Originally posted by TC
Why does it matter where we see him alive again? That's like me saying my uncle's dead because he was in a car crash and then I didn't see him for a week.

It does matter to some and personally to me.In my opinion I dont Consider WCM and WCAcademy Series and SWC in the timeline cause they dont make sense !


Everyone believes what he wants to believe.

 

[Ghost]

Define *sense*

SWC is the same thing as WC1 but with new graphics.