Fahrenheit 9/11
- Thread starter Iceman16
- Start date
- Status
overmortal
Bearded Person
GAH! I had been browsing other windows while that picture loaded, so I clicked on this window and that damned fuzzball startled the hell out of me.
TigerNobleHeart
Rear Admiral
McGruff said:
This one is closer to Melek.
AAAH!! Jeez, man!
Haven't seen anything that freaked me out that much since I saw the "Event Horizon"s fight recorder scene!
Jeez, Man that's just pure freaky *Shudder*
RiotAct218
Spaceman
I've decided that if anyone has a problem with Moore's arguments or his point of view, that they can go and do what he did: get a video camera and make their own god damned documentary. That's all "Roger and Me" was, in case you didn't already know.
Why can't people leave 9/11 alone. I know we should always remember what happened, it certainly changed my life, but it seems like people are on a witch hunt. My question is why? No one was at fault for 9/11 except the poeple who planned and participated (meaning the terrorists) in the attacks. I believe that after 9/11, We the United States have the right to invade anyone who is threatening or is a potential threat to us.
I not only have stood behind my government I was also in front of it. It pains me that if I get called back up that I will be fighting for people like Moore, Mike D of the Beastie Boys, and the Dixie Chicks, who are against the war in Iraq. Personally why do they care so much about fighting the issue instead of caring about our Soldiers who are fighting.
Bush did say one statement, that I will always remember and believe in, about the war on terror: "I would rather fight the terrorists on their home soil with our military, than have to fight them on our soil with our firefighters and police officers." I am totally for that. Whatever happened to the so called "Patriotism" that everyone had after 9/11? Its funny how fast it all disapated.
Peace,
Echo
I not only have stood behind my government I was also in front of it. It pains me that if I get called back up that I will be fighting for people like Moore, Mike D of the Beastie Boys, and the Dixie Chicks, who are against the war in Iraq. Personally why do they care so much about fighting the issue instead of caring about our Soldiers who are fighting.
Bush did say one statement, that I will always remember and believe in, about the war on terror: "I would rather fight the terrorists on their home soil with our military, than have to fight them on our soil with our firefighters and police officers." I am totally for that. Whatever happened to the so called "Patriotism" that everyone had after 9/11? Its funny how fast it all disapated.
Peace,
Echo
LeHah
212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
RiotAct218 said:
http://www.michaelmoorehatesamerica.com/
Now, while I hate Michael Moore for being a self-involved hack who spits out half-truths and masturbates to his own political agendas, someone making a movie taking on Michael Moore is like that movie that spoofed spoof movies.
BlackJack2064
Spaceman
I think the guy is smart, doesn't matter if you agree with his political standing and beliefs. Republicans can't put a spin on this movie, the more they do, the more publicity it gets and the more people who are gonna see it. Good ol George Bush is a polarizing figure in American History, and not just for 9/11 happening in his presidency, but by his actions afterwards. He is either going to be remembered as a great president who battled for the safety of America or an absolute idiot who should have never been put in office.
I tend to disagree with him than agree (actually not tend lol), but I am not gonna wish hateful things on him, I am not sure if trying to make us live in teror is actually good for the country, cause that is what this seems like. I can honestly say I don't agree with the money he has spent to upgrade his house in Texas to be a white house away from the white house. I don't know about you, but I would be damned proud to have the honor to live there for 4 to 8 years. It's my belief to that a president shouldn't get vacations, being president shouldn't be a careerr, and to me a career politician is nothing but a crook who loses touch with his people.
The best part of living in this country is you can be absolutely wrong, depending on your views and NO ONE, can tell you that you are wrong, cause we defend everyone's right to an opinion.
I did see a pretty funny bumber sticker though, "somewhere a village in Texas is missing an idiot". I find that funny no matter what my political views, but I find humor to be the greatest gift of our society.
I tend to disagree with him than agree (actually not tend lol), but I am not gonna wish hateful things on him, I am not sure if trying to make us live in teror is actually good for the country, cause that is what this seems like. I can honestly say I don't agree with the money he has spent to upgrade his house in Texas to be a white house away from the white house. I don't know about you, but I would be damned proud to have the honor to live there for 4 to 8 years. It's my belief to that a president shouldn't get vacations, being president shouldn't be a careerr, and to me a career politician is nothing but a crook who loses touch with his people.
The best part of living in this country is you can be absolutely wrong, depending on your views and NO ONE, can tell you that you are wrong, cause we defend everyone's right to an opinion.
I did see a pretty funny bumber sticker though, "somewhere a village in Texas is missing an idiot". I find that funny no matter what my political views, but I find humor to be the greatest gift of our society.
BlackJack2064 said:
right, he just doesnt have much of a vocabulary and cant pronounce Abu Ghraib too well. and he bought his way into university. and he had a c+ average throughout school.
BlackJack2064 said:
cant argue with the truth
BlackJack2064 said:
yeah, he lied his way into two wars which is stretching the US military to the breaking point, they're recalling retired and discharged army personnel into service, whether they like it or not, and is leading the US dollar to almost all time lows( I think if it goes any lower, it'll be lower than it was in the great depression, of course add inflation)
BlackJack2064 said:
I think he'l be remembered as an idiot who should have never been put in office. he is leading the US right down the drain.
BlackJack2064 said:
I cant stand the guy, IMHO I wish he would be assassinated for the good of the world
I'll post more tomorrow after Ive had a sleep
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
I don't think anyone who's unable to figure out the difficult physics of shift key usage can accuse anyone else of being stupid.
(Seriously, though - you generic hyperweenies insist that the president is both a) really, really dumb and b) the evil secret mastermind of a horrible plot that only you can possibly understand. Which is it?)
God, I hope not.
Iceman16 said:
Good thing you are not in America or it would be my civic duty to call the Secret Service. It is illegal in the US to even make threats such as this. Also I think that you are showing your own deep down personality by saying that any man should be killed for the good of the world. The jury is still out on the official word of any lying to the public. Anything listened to now is just rumors. I fail to see how he is such a big threat to the world. Bush led America into toppling a regime of terrorists in Afganistan turning that country over to its own freely elected leaders who have asked for continuing US support. He then acted on some bad intelligence, which every world leader has done at some point in their careers, and went into Iraq to topple Saddams regime of racial profiling, mass murder and dictatorship. After that he again turned the power over to Iraqs own citizens who also asked for a continued US presence. Talk about an evil man
Also don't forget that Saddam was in violation of several other UN mandates for over 10 years. It was about time we stopped appeasing him and acted. I think that 9/11 was just used as an appropiate catalyst to convince the American people and the world that it was justified. America as a whole just doesn't seem interested anymore in doing what is right. WW2 was the right course of action, Korea was right, Vietnam I'm abstaining from that one. But Americans (and it seems a few Canadians) are only looking out for their own self-intrest. They don't care about what doesn't effect them. Instead of pointing fingers, maybe, just maybe you can think about how you would do in the same situation.jim
PS Iceman:
Don't you find it the least bit hypocritical for a sixteen yearold to complain about the obvious stupidity and college grades of someone when you have not had the opertunity to expierence the same for yourself?
Bob McDob
Better Health Through Less Flavor
I was with you right up until this part:
I don't think this is a new phenomenon. Let's face it, most people are inherently self-interested. If it doesn't concern them, why should they care? They have problems of their own. What about things like Robert Mugabe's racial policies in Zimbabwe, or the chaos and anarchy in Somalia, or the tenuous political situation in the Congo? These are all situations which most of us would regard as being bad - so why aren't we off deploying troops there? Because it doesn't concern us. We're kidding if we think that we went to war for purely altruistic reasons. Every war the US has fought (with the possible exception of the Spanish-American War) was because we felt, at some level, the enemy was a threat to us.
Don't forget that throughout history, Americans have been essentially isolationist and conservative, preferring to manage their own affairs. Most Americans weren't terribly interested in Hitler and the Nazis, which they saw as essentially another European conflict of no interest to them. It took Pearl Harbor to spur America into action. Korea was, for the most part, a controversial war at the time, one that Truman took a lot of flak for. And Vietnam ... we all know about Vietnam.
I think most of the criticism of Iraq (the more legitimate ones, at least) stems from whether Iraq had anything to do with the US's campaign against terrorism. Certainly Saddam Hussein wasn't exactly buddy-buddy with bin Laden, but then, he did support suicide bombing in Israel and roadblock the peace process in the Middle East. Maybe Bush lied about Hussein's al-Qaeda links, or his weapons of mass destruction; well, FDR pretended a Lufthansa chart was an invasion plan of South America. This is nothing new. Politicians are politicians; they will sometimes twist the facts if they think it will serve the greater good. Is it good that the Nazis are gone and Saddam is out of power? Few people will argue with that. But when you ask if they'll pay the cost, in blood, for that good, people will hesistate and consider. They all will.
The other part of Iraq comes from the aftermath. Pretty much everyone in the US supported the war; not everyone supported the peace. The US has had to make some deals to maintain peace in Iraq. Deals like more or less giving Fallujah over to Islamic fundamentalists. Then there's the worry that Iraq will serve as a recruiting ground for more terrorists. Certainly it hasn't done anything for the US's world press, and it's put al-Qaeda and other groups front and center. I suppose the US could find a way to turn the latter to its advantage. Make no mistake: Iraq is a troubled country, and there's growing resentment over the US occupation (Iraq may be sovereign now, but the US is still for all intents and purposes the big boss in the area). But from the people I've heard from, people actually stationed there, it's not nearly as bad as CNN makes it sound.
Personally, I was ambivilant about the war in Iraq - I would have preferred that we put more effort into Afganistan first - but we can't afford to do things halfway. That's what people who advocate pulling out of Iraq overlook. Any mess we make, we have to clean up.
I always feel a bit bad when talking about this, because it's not my ass on the line there, it won't be me getting killed if I turn out to be wrong and Iraq is a hellhole and Moore is right and the US is some evil capitalist oppressor demon or whatever the hell is the word of the day. All I can say is what I think, however far off the mark I may be. Maybe that's all anyone can do.
Anyway, this is really more of a soapbox thread then an actual debate, and I've said my peace, so I'll leave it be. Here's some kittens, for good measure:
Also, Erkle, you suck at using paragraphs, please do. That is all.
I don't think this is a new phenomenon. Let's face it, most people are inherently self-interested. If it doesn't concern them, why should they care? They have problems of their own. What about things like Robert Mugabe's racial policies in Zimbabwe, or the chaos and anarchy in Somalia, or the tenuous political situation in the Congo? These are all situations which most of us would regard as being bad - so why aren't we off deploying troops there? Because it doesn't concern us. We're kidding if we think that we went to war for purely altruistic reasons. Every war the US has fought (with the possible exception of the Spanish-American War) was because we felt, at some level, the enemy was a threat to us.
Don't forget that throughout history, Americans have been essentially isolationist and conservative, preferring to manage their own affairs. Most Americans weren't terribly interested in Hitler and the Nazis, which they saw as essentially another European conflict of no interest to them. It took Pearl Harbor to spur America into action. Korea was, for the most part, a controversial war at the time, one that Truman took a lot of flak for. And Vietnam ... we all know about Vietnam.
I think most of the criticism of Iraq (the more legitimate ones, at least) stems from whether Iraq had anything to do with the US's campaign against terrorism. Certainly Saddam Hussein wasn't exactly buddy-buddy with bin Laden, but then, he did support suicide bombing in Israel and roadblock the peace process in the Middle East. Maybe Bush lied about Hussein's al-Qaeda links, or his weapons of mass destruction; well, FDR pretended a Lufthansa chart was an invasion plan of South America. This is nothing new. Politicians are politicians; they will sometimes twist the facts if they think it will serve the greater good. Is it good that the Nazis are gone and Saddam is out of power? Few people will argue with that. But when you ask if they'll pay the cost, in blood, for that good, people will hesistate and consider. They all will.
The other part of Iraq comes from the aftermath. Pretty much everyone in the US supported the war; not everyone supported the peace. The US has had to make some deals to maintain peace in Iraq. Deals like more or less giving Fallujah over to Islamic fundamentalists. Then there's the worry that Iraq will serve as a recruiting ground for more terrorists. Certainly it hasn't done anything for the US's world press, and it's put al-Qaeda and other groups front and center. I suppose the US could find a way to turn the latter to its advantage. Make no mistake: Iraq is a troubled country, and there's growing resentment over the US occupation (Iraq may be sovereign now, but the US is still for all intents and purposes the big boss in the area). But from the people I've heard from, people actually stationed there, it's not nearly as bad as CNN makes it sound.
Personally, I was ambivilant about the war in Iraq - I would have preferred that we put more effort into Afganistan first - but we can't afford to do things halfway. That's what people who advocate pulling out of Iraq overlook. Any mess we make, we have to clean up.
I always feel a bit bad when talking about this, because it's not my ass on the line there, it won't be me getting killed if I turn out to be wrong and Iraq is a hellhole and Moore is right and the US is some evil capitalist oppressor demon or whatever the hell is the word of the day. All I can say is what I think, however far off the mark I may be. Maybe that's all anyone can do.
Anyway, this is really more of a soapbox thread then an actual debate, and I've said my peace, so I'll leave it be. Here's some kittens, for good measure:
Also, Erkle, you suck at using paragraphs, please do. That is all.
Mystery muppet
Spaceman
My contribution: Could all of you just judge both people by the same standard? Thank you very much. (In the early pages of this thread, someone berated Moore for including half-truths and bending the truth, then stuck up for Bush. Need I remind you that Bush and his lies/misgivings have caused probably thousands of deaths and sent two countries into chaos? Say what you want about the Talibans, but there WAS some measure of order and law-enforcement.)
Erkle: Did you fall fast asleep during the months before the Iraq-war? It was supposed to be about finding weapons of mass-destruction, which, to my knowledge, has come up dry. Because there was little success in that, the cause was shifted to 'freeing the Iraqi people from an evil dictator'. BAH.
LOAF: For me, a mix of a) and a 'dumbed down' version of b). (To simplify, the dumb SOB is corrupted.)
Echo: Ya know, I DO feel kind of threatened by this Bush the Kidd (and I don't even live in USA, or any other country which happen to have a conflict of interests with USA!). By your logic, I take it it is alright if I just run into the White House and abduct Bush by force, live or dead? Hooray. The world doesn't work that way. It'll only come right back and bite the people responsible (or their descendants) where it hurts.
Also, there was a piece of a comic (Andy Capp) posted in a newspaper recently where Andy thought a guy was going to hit him, so Andy hit him back first. Tell me you see that's flat-out stupid...
Erkle: Did you fall fast asleep during the months before the Iraq-war? It was supposed to be about finding weapons of mass-destruction, which, to my knowledge, has come up dry. Because there was little success in that, the cause was shifted to 'freeing the Iraqi people from an evil dictator'. BAH.
LOAF: For me, a mix of a) and a 'dumbed down' version of b). (To simplify, the dumb SOB is corrupted.)
Echo: Ya know, I DO feel kind of threatened by this Bush the Kidd (and I don't even live in USA, or any other country which happen to have a conflict of interests with USA!). By your logic, I take it it is alright if I just run into the White House and abduct Bush by force, live or dead? Hooray. The world doesn't work that way. It'll only come right back and bite the people responsible (or their descendants) where it hurts.
Also, there was a piece of a comic (Andy Capp) posted in a newspaper recently where Andy thought a guy was going to hit him, so Andy hit him back first. Tell me you see that's flat-out stupid...
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
They're rennovating Pennsylvania Avenue, and have a tall fence with a tarp over it around the White House. I can say with absolute certainty that no one within a hundred kilometer radius of this thread is smart enough to get past a tarp covered fence.
- Status