Cloaking devices and Flashpaks

Originally posted by Dominator
Anyway (returning to UE) puting flashpaks in it would have upset balance and made this excellent game too easy. And I would like to say that last mission was one of the best I saw in space combat sims - UE is worth playing even for this mission only!
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Yeah, it reminds me those multi capships battles in Tie Fighter or XWA
 
Note: I will cut this a lot. It was getting to long.

Originally posted by Viper61
No not really. It's also a movie, cartoon, and novel series, as you stated earlier.
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What I said is that you can't dismiss something because it happens on a game and say "That's gaming". Its the same as saying "that's novel" to deny something that happened during "End Run".


I tend to beleive from what I've gleamed from the novels that a ship going nova is the exception, not the rule.
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I don't think ships being destroyed togheter with their crew was a rare event during Kilrathi war.


Is it realistic that whenever 1 torpedo hits in WC2 & 3 that we see no explosion?
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As realistic as using the flashpak. Perhaps the torpedo went inside the ship and the explosion was internal. But anyway, you discuss a lot the realism of the game engine, which of course is limited by technology. Flashpaks does the same as a few torpedoes in the game, as far as the game engine goes.


But I really wasn't referring to that, I was simply comparing horrible acts in the WC universe to what would happen if those same acts happened today.
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Let's compare to how things were seen on the WC universe. Dragons are not immoral per se. Seether used them for evil, but Blair used them for good. The flashpak is just a super-torpedo, like the Dragon is a super-fighter. It is a conventional weapon. Morality depends on the use you make of it.

The whole idea on WCIV is that you can choose not to destroy some ships and installations like the BW Cruiser, the Lexington or the Ella superbase.
 
Originally posted by Dominator
I would like to make another comparison - let`s say that this `Black Lance` affair is a `low intensity` conflict in todays terms and the Kilrathi War is an all out war like WW II. During low intensity conflicts it is important to destroy enemies ability to fight - after all such conflict is short and you don`t want to conquer anybody. But Kilrathi War is an all out and very long war. In such case the physical elimination of enemy is regrettably also and probably more important than destroying his weapons - after all trained and experienced soldiers are harder to replace than weapons (see Japanese pilots in WW II). And during long war you have to find means to finish it faster - that is why `special` weapons were developed. Using them is a difficult moral issue but by using them you save many more lives that would have been lost if conflict had continued.
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Makes sense, really. While the renegade confed forces were out to kill as many BW's "thugs" as they could, you can see Blair has a clear option. He can go with Hawk and kill as many confed as he can, or go with Panther in the more humane path.

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Sorry for the double post.
 
Originally posted by Ghost
Yeah, it reminds me those multi capships battles in Tie Fighter or XWA
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Yes TIE fighter also came into my mind when I played this mission. I had no idea that WCP engine can simulate such a big battle with many groups of fighters pursuing their different goals - it captures the feel of real battle where you are only a part of larger picture - that was why TIE fighter was a great game.
 
Originally posted by Quarto
I would like to make another comparison... no, wait, I wouldn't. You guys do realise that this discussion has absolutely nothing to do with UE, right? :p
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Hey,I told you about endless debates :P you are the moderator and looks like you are too kind so far....:)

Originally posted by Eder
Hey, has anyone else here played UE? Great add-on. I was just playing it right now - got as far as mission 4, then these Kilrathi... hey wait, what am I doing? I'm talking about UE in the UE forum!


--Eder
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Shame on you! This is an off topic section !Stop writing about UE right now !
 
Originally posted by TCSTigersClaw
Hey,I told you about endless debates :P you are the moderator and looks like you are too kind so far....
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Pah, some off-topic chatter is only to be expected. If we insisted on absolutely UE-only talk, there wouldn't be much talking here.
 
We'd need a forum for UE canon debates though. Or maybe Delance should just start an email list :p
 
Originally posted by Filler
We'd need a forum for UE canon debates though. Or maybe Delance should just start an email list :p
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That's such a good idea. And by good, I mean bad.
 
Originally posted by Ghost
Oh yeah, i thought that you said the thing about heavy armor capships in the WC4 era (the only capship with heavy armor was the Vesuvius).
But If you can Flashpak a SuperBase...mmhhh... i don´t know how much armor you need to make the Flashpak obsolete.but that Ella had a very-big-heavy armor.
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And you're getting this data from what, precisely?

However, the script notes that the heavy armor on the Vesuvius is some sort of alloy that is unlikely to make an outside strike successful. They never explain whether this alloy is what gives the Vesuvius its extra toughness or not, though it does seem to make it unlikely that an external Flash-Pak strike would work.
 
That all the ships that you see (except the vesivius class) were very old, you don´t update the armor so easily.
Nor you make a weapon that won´t be usefull if every ship has the new alloy.
 
Originally posted by Ghost
That all the ships that you see (except the vesivius class) were very old, you don´t update the armor so easily.
Nor you make a weapon that won´t be usefull if every ship has the new alloy.
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Well, yes, if the new alloy can be used anywhere. Perhaps is something so expansive or rare that they will only use it on special ships like a fleet carrier or the cerberus.
 
Yes ,that is why i said in WC4, they didn´t upgraded all the ships with the new alloy, only the Vesuvius (that is what i suppose)
 
Actually I think that the Vesuvius class carriers were deliberately given that special armor at great expense specifically because Tolwyn was afraid that somebody might try to steal the Flashpaks and use them against him like Blair ended up doing.
 
Originally posted by Ijuin
Actually I think that the Vesuvius class carriers were deliberately given that special armor at great expense specifically because Tolwyn was afraid that somebody might try to steal the Flashpaks and use them against him like Blair ended up doing.
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Well doind the attack Blair did inside the hangars is supposed to be incredibly difficult. It’s easy with a Dragon because of the cloaking devices.
 
Exactly. Tolwyn had the special armor put on the Vesuvius in order to make it "near impossible" for Flashpaks to be used against it. And, sure enough, it took Blair doing the "near impossible" feat of flying inside the Vesuvius' hangar to do it. (I am going by the novel here, since in any "real" terms it's kind of dumb that an enemy can just fly into the hangar and start shooting the place up.)
 
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