Border Worlds and Militia

An ally? If UBW was created around 2673 (Im not assuming it is) how can they be allies, if they're part of ConFed already. For example, a state of a nation is not considered an ally, but a part of that nation. Wouldn't the same go for UBW?

I believe UBW existed during the war as there are references to it being an 'ally'.
 
I disagree that that the UBW is the same as the Gemini Sector because that would mean that the whole Gemini Sector broke away from the Confederation. I also think that the sort of Militia we encounter in Priv1 can be found in almost every Terran Sector and that the BW Militia just kept its name when it broke away from Confed. I have no real proof for my points, it is just what I think.
BTW, did the UBW broke away because of the Black Lance affair (i.e. because they thought Confed wanted to surpress them) or did they want to be independent all the way and it coincidentally as at the time of the BL when they tried to enforce it?
 
You don't find it at all strange that despite the fact that you've provided no sources or even actual proof from the WCU that the two organizations are linked, that you still demand the same from me? Fine...

"...The Union of Border Worlds, as they now call themselves, indicate they remain at peace with the Confederation -- but that Confed's bylaws and constitution no longer govern them." - Barbara Miles, Wing Commander IV, 2673.219. The specific date comes from the letter Doctor Brody wrote to Captain Eisen.

"The Admirality Court has ruled that the rebels have rejected the Confederation's authority. Therefore, they are not entitled to the privelges of citizenship." -- WCIV novel, p.143, again indicating the recent creation of the Union of Border Worlds.

"Militia forces are local mercanaries hired by individual planets for security purposes." = description of the Privateer militia, Privateer Playtester's Guide, p. 56.

Information about Home Defense squadrons can be found on page 99 through page 101 of the WC3 novel.

Another important source is Page 47 of Claw Marks. Compare the map of the Vega Sector circa 2654 to the map of the Vega Sector included in Prophecy. Seggalion and Dakota were then parts of the Terran Confederation and are now parts of the Union of Border Worlds.

"Militia n : civilians trained as soldiers but not part of the regular army." - the definition of militia, from dictionary.com.

http://www.presscolor.com/library/4ctheory.html - an article on how the eye see's color, which will be usefull for helping distinguish the *BLUE* Confed systems and the *GREEN* Union of Border Worlds ones on the Wing Commander Universe map (included with Wing Commander Prophecy). There are no yellow systems in the Gemini Sector.
 
Originally posted by Bandit LOAF


http://www.presscolor.com/library/4ctheory.html - an article on how the eye see's color, which will be usefull for helping distinguish the *BLUE* Confed systems and the *YELLOW* Union of Border Worlds ones on the Wing Commander Universe map (included with Wing Commander Prophecy). There are no yellow systems in the Gemini Sector.
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LOL, of all the things posted here, i think you're wrong about one little thing, i think the UBW uses the GREEN color on the WCP map<G>
 
I guess my photo-pigments weren't working:)

(But still, I edited it, you just can't tell because I'm a moderator and can edit things without people knowing).
 
[T]he Border Worlds were simply a region of Confed . . .
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The Border worlds were not a region of confed.
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True.:)

Those views sum up the situation in the early 2670s quite well. (And remind me of the debates that still occur to this day over the American Civil War.)

Certainly the planets rounding out Confed’s borders are “border worlds”, and there was probably a time when the term (spoken) meant only that, but still often means just that, similar to the way that “core” and “colonial” worlds, for example, are distinguished in Fleet Action.

There’s also a good reason to make the distinction. It’s surely no coincidence that in addition to a UBW there’s a Landreich, and that Tolwyn’s description of the BW in The Price of Freedom as “a wild lot–full of rogues, privateers, and the Border Worlders themselves” could be easily amended to fit Gemini Sector too. Human history is full of examples of how settlements or colonies tend toward independence, and how the more distant they are from the “homeland” (or the more distressed they are compared to it), the greater that tendency.

So I think we can at least agree that the dispute over the BW generally begs the question of what was happening in Gemini and how Confed managed to “hold on” and keep it from going the way of the two other infamous “frontiers”. (I mean, there must be a story there; Gemini Sector is a civil mess in 2669-70.)

Nevertheless, I don’t see how we can presume a relationship between the UBW and Gemini just because they comprise “border worlds”. WC4 offers no support for the proposition; the “trouble” in the game is clearly focused in or around the systems that the later (and not much later) Prophecy map identifies as belonging to the UBW.

Moreover, the name “Border Worlds” in WC4 is formal, not generic, and thus must refer to a particular set of planets. By the same token, such a distinction wouldn’t arise from sudden mass whimsy. Like the example of Deneb Sector being another name for Epsilon Sector, there must be a reason or event–specifically a history–back of it, and AFAIK the name “Border Worlds” is never used in Privateer or RF despite a smorgasbord of conversations about Gemini and its political and social troubles.

Finally, human history again teaches that conspiracy and rebellion require a compelling set of shared interests, and I can’t think of anything that “compelling” that the frontier planets of Gemini would share with the mostly frontline worlds in Vega, Epsilon, or Enigma.
 
LOAF. I Love it when you do my arguing for me <g>. I really dislike it when people demand facts for my case without presenting any for their own, that is the most annoying thing in the world.
 
Gemini doesn't even really fit the non-plotical definition of the border worlds, though -- that being band of systems between the Confederation and the Kilrathi -- Gemini borders the unexplored edge of the galaxy, and has only a small border with the Empire (the last major battle with the Kilrathi in Gemini was in 2658...).

Politically, there are several groups -- The Union of Border Worlds, the Free Republic of the Landreich, the Grovsner Colonies... all of which can be considered 'border worlds'. The military we serve with in WCIV was the newly formed militia of the newly formed Union of Border Worlds (the Landreich had declared their independence years earlier).
 
Gemini doesn't even really fit the non-plotical definition of the border worlds, though -- that being band of systems between the Confederation and the Kilrathi . . .
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Maybe you mean frontline systems, in the sense of where the major action is? I agree, that’s a very important distinction that likely goes a long way to explain the social/political evolution of the border worlds in Vega, Epsilon, and Enigma into the Border Worlds and finally the UBW.

As far as “border worlds” go though, Gemini fits pretty well. Its birth and heritage stem from the military entering the region first to establish an effective border against the Kilrathi. In addition, the Exploratory Services terms Gemini a “border sector” like Vega or Enigma. And attacks, though not major at the time of Privateer, occur in all four quadrants, with the Kilrathi being regular visitors along the frontier systems in Fariss. It would be quite natural, therefore, to think of Gemini in terms of “border worlds” or “border settlements” in addition to “the frontier” or “the unknown”.
 
Gemini is a border between the Kilrathi and *nothing*, though -- it's not a border in the same sense as the UBW, between the Kilrathi and the homeworlds.
 
Well, you’ve just described Enigma Sector too, haven’t you?:) I mean, it has a “small border” with the Empire while it’s also on the edge of “nothing”, in this case more literally since it’s close to the galactic rim and intergalactic space. (Yes, the front and therefore the border were very much in play in Enigma, but that’s the critical point isn’t it?)

The distinction you’re drawing still sounds like it depends on how active the given front is and consequently how much of a threat is being presented to the so-called inner or core worlds. I agree with the need for the distinction, but I don’t understand the need to straitjacket what is on its face a broad term like “border world”. I’d think we’d want a term like “frontline” or “buffer” or whatever else would at least suggest the distinction.

To be sure, a generic term can acquire more specialized meanings–heaven help me, “chad” just came to mind–but the generic meaning usually endures because of its utility. More to the point, how could we not tolerate someone on Palan calling it a border world? (What would we say: “Sorry friend, I know you might think that just because your world is on the frontier, defines a border, and is also near a front it’s okay to call it a ‘border world’, but . . .”? Yikes! Too Orwellian for me.)
 
I haven't had time to read through everything here, but you can't really compare Enigma to Gemini. Enigma might be on the edge of 'nothing' but a lot of fighting goes on there too. Whereas the Vega Sector provides the main corridor between Earth and Kilrah, and is therefore heavily guarded, the Kilrathi decided to attempt to move in from the Epsilon and Enigma sectors.

And as for the Deneb Sector/Quadrant thing, I think that whoever designed the WCP map didn't have enough systems for Deneb, or didn't have enough room overall, and thus just renamed Deneb a quadrant.
 
No, Enigma isn't on the frontier -- the Landreich Sector is 'below' it, cartographically speaking (G) Gemini Sector actually is on the edge of explored space.

No one would call Palan a border world in the Wing Commander Universe, because the Border Worlds are a specific political entity.
 
No, Enigma isn't on the frontier -- the Landreich Sector is 'below' it . . . Gemini Sector actually is on the edge of explored space.
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You misunderstood me. I didn’t say Enigma bordered on unexplored, unsettled, or empty space. I was pointing out that if you considered the space beyond Gemini to be “nothing” (hardly a measured term, especially when applied to the space extending on toward and around the galactic core), then the same could certainly be said for the space beyond Enigma, and that your description of Gemini therefore does nothing to set it apart from Enigma or any other frontline sector with territory to protect (settled, strategic, or otherwise valuable). The focus should instead be on what was happening along the fronts.

BTW, I’m wondering what you’d think of the term “Border Worlds frontier”?

No one would call Palan a border world in the Wing Commander Universe, because the Border Worlds are a specific political entity.
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No one? Anywhere? Ever!?

Yeah, right.

So there can’t be a “union” other than the Union of Border Worlds; a “republic” other than the Free Republic of the Landreich; or a “confederation” other than the Confederation. And of course that’s all in keeping with the “fact” that no one in our own reality ever refers to a state except for one of the fifty states of the United States.

But why stop with governments? A formal name is a formal name, and any number have sprung from or otherwise relate to generic terms. I guess then there can’t be a thanksgiving dinner except once a year on Thanksgiving, a merchants' guild except for the Merchants' Guild in Gemini, or a militia except for Gemini’s . . . wait a minute. Where have we heard that argument before?
 
Space beyond Gemini isn't *nothing*... it's just not anything, if that makes sense (G) If the focus is what's happening on the front, then again, Gemini isn't the same as the Border Worlds -- which bear the brunt of the Kilrathi aggression.

I'm sure there are lots of other unions, republics and confederations -- but I don't think I'd ever refer to another country as 'the united states' because they were made up of united states (G)
 
If it weren't for the US, the rest of the world would have to make fun of Canada... and that gets old fast!
 
Space beyond Gemini isn't *nothing*... it's just not anything . . .
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I think it’s fair to say that Confed considered it “something” though, because the primary purpose of establishing the front in Gemini was to prevent the Empire from expanding into the region.

If the focus is what's happening on the front, then again, Gemini isn't the same as the Border Worlds -- which bear the brunt of the Kilrathi aggression.
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Agreed. Gemini has border worlds but not Border Worlds. As I suggested before, one of the likely reasons the border worlds in Vega, Epsilon, and Enigma became the Border Worlds was because of where Kilrathi aggression was focused over time and the role those planets were forced to play.

I'm sure there are lots of other unions, republics and confederations . . .
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As we’d expect and as we commonly experience with all sorts of generic terms. The term “border world” is no different.

Consider the word “frontier”. I’m sure many of us, and I’d include myself, would in the first instance think of it as meaning the edge of exploration, but it also means a shared border between two independent states or territories. Thus, Gemini is on a frontier in the sense of unexplored space, but Vega, Epsilon, and Enigma form a frontier vis-à-vis the UBW.

By the same token, the term “border world” can have different meanings for different contexts. It can be a world that historically served to protect the core worlds during the Kilrathi war and became one of the Border Worlds; it can be a world that, depending on how borders expand over time, has the capability to serve as a buffer for Confederation territory at times of conflict; and in its most generic and static form it can be a world or settlement near or along any kind of border.

It’s just a fact that general terms have different, sometimes even contradictory meanings. That’s the power of language. (And thank goodness it is; otherwise language would only stifle, not inspire the imagination.)

In that spirit, LOAF, I trust you won’t be offended if I call you a minion of the Zone. (I do mean it in its complimentary sense.)

. . . but I don't think I'd ever refer to another country as 'the united states' because they were made up of united states
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That’s your choice. But as the Oxford English Dictionary notes, others have chosen differently. And we can think of other contexts. For example, the G7 or G8 as “the united states of industry”.
 
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