Babylon 5

Red Coat said:
Yeah, you're right. It's common language among the British Commonwealth nations as well, for example, Australia. Although the term 'Season' is sometimes used.
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It goes beyond that somewhat in North America though. Though In North america the term series refers to a show in it's entirety. So there are five Star Trek series: TOS, TNG, DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise and each series has 3, 7, 7, 7, and 4 seasons respectively.

And Canada, part of the Commonwealth, seems to go by that standard...
 
It goes beyond that somewhat in North America though. Though In North america the term series refers to a show in it's entirety. So there are five Star Trek series: TOS, TNG, DS9, Voyager, and Enterprise and each series has 3, 7, 7, 7, and 4 seasons respectively.

And Canada, part of the Commonwealth, seems to go by that standard...
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Yeah, well we all know language changes over time. As I said, you do get people over here that will call it series and some that will call it season. It also has alot to do with American infulence as because the majority of TV shows are American, and as they call them 'seasons' the language has kind of spread. If you know what I mean.

Cheers,

Red Coat.
 
Red Coat said:
I heard it didn't do so well in the United States? I know sci-fi fans in the UK and in Australia loved it, but I heard in the U.S. it was dwarfed by Star Trek in just about every manner.

Cheers,

Red Coat.
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You're right. It was rather dwarfed by Star Trek here. Which is some thing I'll never understand. I've never really liked any of the Star Trek series and don't understand how they are considered by many to be better than the other scifi series. Personally I think Babylon 5, Firefly, Stargate SG-1\Atlantis, and Farscape have all been much, much better than Star Trek but many people don't seem to agree.
 
You're right. It was rather dwarfed by Star Trek here. Which is some thing I'll never understand. I've never really liked any of the Star Trek series and don't understand how they are considered by many to be better than the other scifi series. Personally I think Babylon 5, Firefly, Stargate SG-1\Atlantis, and Farscape have all been much, much better than Star Trek but many people don't seem to agree.
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Hmmmmm, I don't know myself. Seems like Star Trek was the classic mainstream and fans weren't open to much other than the classics. Personally Babylon 5 is my favourite TV series, and I enjoyed all the other TV series' that you mentioned, including Star Trek, although I only really watched TNG, DS9 and Voyager.

ST:DS9 was one of my favourites, if not my favourite show for a while, and then there was B5. :P

Babylon 5 just kind of wiped everything else out with it's storyline that really just sucked you in. Liked the setting too.

Cheers,

Red Coat.
 
You're right. It was rather dwarfed by Star Trek here. Which is some thing I'll never understand. I've never really liked any of the Star Trek series and don't understand how they are considered by many to be better than the other scifi series. Personally I think Babylon 5, Firefly, Stargate SG-1\Atlantis, and Farscape have all been much, much better than Star Trek but many people don't seem to agree.
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It's because although internet fans will argue forever about who has the biggest Star Destroyer, every single one of those shows listed is descended from/exists because of Star Trek -- from TOS making sci-fi-as-allegory popular on TV to Next Generation proving that upscale syndicated sci fi could be (very) profitable.
 
It's because although internet fans will argue forever about who has the biggest Star Destroyer, every single one of those shows listed is descended from/exists because of Star Trek -- from TOS making sci-fi-as-allegory popular on TV to Next Generation proving that upscale syndicated sci fi could be (very) profitable.
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Doesn't necessarily mean it's the better show, however. I guess though, I would be in the minority for liking Babylon 5 over Star Trek. I just enjoyed the continuing storyline of B5 over Star Trek, which didn't really have a long-standing storyline. Although you had elements that kept coming back, over and over, like relationships and crew casualties, it didn't have that feeling of continuation like B5 did. If you know what I mean.

Overall, world-wide, what do you think would be more popular, Star Trek or Star Wars though? :P Bit of a silly, easy question.

Cheers,

Red Coat.
 
Red Coat said:
Doesn't necessarily mean it's the better show, however.
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I would say it's a better (set of) shows, but that's me.

Red Coat said:
I guess though, I would be in the minority for liking Babylon 5 over Star Trek. I just enjoyed the continuing storyline of B5 over Star Trek, which didn't really have a long-standing storyline. Although you had elements that kept coming back, over and over, like relationships and crew casualties, it didn't have that feeling of continuation like B5 did. If you know what I mean.
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Deep Space 9 and Enterprise actually did each have a full year-long continuous plot arc. The DS9 one had a couple years of build up to it as well.
 
Bandit LOAF said:
It's because although internet fans will argue forever about who has the biggest Star Destroyer, every single one of those shows listed is descended from/exists because of Star Trek -- from TOS making sci-fi-as-allegory popular on TV to Next Generation proving that upscale syndicated sci fi could be (very) profitable.
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I know that if it wasn't for Star Trek the shows I like wouldn't be here. I've just for some reason can't get into it. Earlier today Spike was running The Next Generation episodes and being that there was nothing else on I though I'd give it another try. After about 30 mins. I got bored of it and popped in an Angel DVD.
To each there own I guess:p
 
I've yet to see crusade but I have all seperately purchased B5 seasons. :) Plus the movie box set from TNT.

I really loved Mollari... gotta be the best character arc :) I was very sad when Sinclair left in the second season but finding out why he was taken out and when he came back was pretty cool. :)

Did you guys notice the dark, heavy, grainy, smokey, gritty feel to film in the pilot,? Almost like Blade Runner.
Also the different in the makeup and such for G'Kar, and Delens bones detatching from the temples. :) ....the silly multi colored lights in CNC :)

Loved the Series... glad G'Kar showed up in the Ranger DVD but kinda put off by the overly sci-fi twist on the weapons firing... kicking and puching to fire the guns. :(
 
Red Coat said:
I loved all of Babylon 5, but by far the worst series of the five was indeed the final one. Just didn't seem like real B5, didn't have that feeling the storyline had with the other four series.

Cheers,

Red Coat.
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Yeah season 5 was cut short in terms of cramming a lot into it. JMS wanted to finish what he could with the characters to show how they ended up. If he had more time like a 6th season then I think it would have been more like the previous seasons but then the hypothetical season 6 would probably end up feeling the same way season 5 did. I was honestly hoping to see what happens with Sheridans Kid and the Drahk between the time the son is born and the time Sheridan dies. It was so agrivating seeing Mollari asking for a Drink and there was none, so he couldn't warn Sheridan or Delen when he gave them the gift. Also wanted to know what happens to Lita and G'Kar out on the rim... arrrgh. So much hanging out in the open. :)
 
Kilrathi_Princess said:
I've yet to see crusade but I have all seperately purchased B5 seasons. :) Plus the movie box set from TNT.
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Not a lot of people like Crusade, but it’s kinda of fun. I think that, if it was given enough time, the characters could have become quite interesting. That Galen guy was fun.

The original movie is quite different indeed. And how can one poison an ethereal being like a Vorlon? :)

Loved the Series... glad G'Kar showed up in the Ranger DVD but kinda put off by the overly sci-fi twist on the weapons firing... kicking and puching to fire the guns. :(
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Yeah G’Kar was great, we’ll all miss him.

The Ranger movie is bad is so many ways. The idea of not retreating whatever the odds as used on the movie is ridiculous. The protagonist is frowned upon because he didn’t waste his crew’s life on a purposeless suicide attack when he had no weapons to speak of.
 
You all know why Crusade sucked, right?

TNT butchered it. All the fans of B5 were only tuning in to the station to watch Babylon 5, and then all the fans of the other shows on the station wouldn't watch it. TNT decided they didn't like that, but just cancel the show outright. So they started putting up these insane demands that they knew JMS wouldn't/couldn't follow so they could cancel the show out of contract dispute.

That's how Crusade died. It was aired out of order, and the final three scripts for season 1 were unfilmed (Much to Walter Koenig's dismay, as he'd already memorized all of his lines for those scripts).

Babylon 5 is indeed an amazing show. I really do hope that at some point JMS is able to revive it and give the splendor it truely deserves. If he was able to find a way to continue Crusade, nothing would make me happier.
 
Crazy J said:
You all know why Crusade sucked, right?

TNT butchered it. All the fans of B5 were only tuning in to the station to watch Babylon 5, and then all the fans of the other shows on the station wouldn't watch it. TNT decided they didn't like that, but just cancel the show outright. So they started putting up these insane demands that they knew JMS wouldn't/couldn't follow so they could cancel the show out of contract dispute.

That's how Crusade died. It was aired out of order, and the final three scripts for season 1 were unfilmed (Much to Walter Koenig's dismay, as he'd already memorized all of his lines for those scripts).

Babylon 5 is indeed an amazing show. I really do hope that at some point JMS is able to revive it and give the splendor it truely deserves. If he was able to find a way to continue Crusade, nothing would make me happier.
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I'm keeping my fingers crossed that The Lost Tales will be such a hit on DVD that JMS will be able to do a new B5 series. At the very least some more straight to DVD movies.
 
Crusade could've been better, and the pilot movie has some awful soundtrack, but it still beats Legends of the Rangers.
 
TNT butchered it. All the fans of B5 were only tuning in to the station to watch Babylon 5, and then all the fans of the other shows on the station wouldn't watch it. TNT decided they didn't like that, but just cancel the show outright. So they started putting up these insane demands that they knew JMS wouldn't/couldn't follow so they could cancel the show out of contract dispute.
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Ehh, this is what *JMS* says... and he's very, very good at knowing how to blame everyone else for his problems. It's the same empty rhetoric you hae whenever a genre show is cancelled - 'this evil network was plotting against us from the beginning!'.

That doesn't happen, and it's especially disgusting here... since TNT decided to save Babylon 5 for the fifth season specifically because of its founder's personal interest in the show. It wasn't some brilliant scheme to lure the huge Babylon 5 viewer base to the channel... the was absolutely never any such thing as that.

The truth of the matter is that Crusade *premiered* to less than a quarter of the audience that Babylon 5 Season 5 opened to. It also wasn't very good - JMS likes to bitch and moan about how getting all sorts of network notes (a *standard* thing in television) which lead to the show being shown out of order...

but what he always forgets to mention is that there's no point where the show is secretly great. It's universally slow and boring - watching the original pilot (shocking horrible TNT change: the uniforms are different!) doesn't make the show any better... even the earlier intro movie is similarly dull. Crusade didn't have ratings share, it didn't have hardcore fan support, it had a creator who spent all his time bitching on the Usenet about the hand that fed him and just wasn't compelling TV - Turner would have been doing its shareholders a massive disservice by not cancelling it.

There was certainly no secret plot to make the show fail - a network can shut down production of a series whenever it wants in the process... especially a genre show with millions of dollars of assosciated production costs just to produce a pilot.

In fact, TNT spent a massive amount of money on Crusade and recieved a pilot they (and we, ultimately) didn't like. Instead of cancelling the show then, they spent *even more* money allowing JMS to retool the show... Which he happily did until he turned in a result that didn't please anyone - remember that, too! He didn't stand up and say to hell with the network for suggesting I change things... he didn't have a problem until *after* he was given a second chance and the show was cancelled. The cost of paying off a few producers half-season contradcts pales in comparison to what they wound up spending shooting/editing/promoting/airing for 13 hour-long shows.
 
"A Call to Arms" have an awful soundtrack and a dull battle, but last time I read about it JMS was defending it as the result of 'bold' decisions.
 
Kilrathi_Princess said:
If he had more time like a 6th season then I think it would have been more like the previous seasons but then the hypothetical season 6 would probably end up feeling the same way season 5 did.
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There was never any ideas of a 6th season. The show was always just a 5 year arc. If there is any reason why Season 5 feels the way it does it is because right before he was to start writing it, all his note cards on season 5 were thrown out by the hotel cleaning staff where he was staying. He recounts the story in Vol 11 of the script books.

LOAF really hit the nail on the head. Call to Arms and Crusader seemingly have a good premise but it fails to deliver. I own them for the sake of owning them, they are B5 after all, but I don't watch them very often. I've only watched Crusader all the way through once.

And the Rangers movie that followed was even worse. I'm hoping because JMS is returning to B5 itself and not some other part of the B5U that things will be better this time around. I at least hope so, because I'd really like to see the 2nd DVD that is supposed to include Garibaldi.
 
Dundradal said:
There was never any ideas of a 6th season. The show was always just a 5 year arc. If there is any reason why Season 5 feels the way it does it is because right before he was to start writing it, all his note cards on season 5 were thrown out by the hotel cleaning staff where he was staying. He recounts the story in Vol 11 of the script books.
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Uhhhh... that's an extremely unlikely story. Hotel staff know better than to throw away anything that's not placed in rubbish bins, precisely to avoid the kind of situation described above. Throwing away the guests' property, that's like begging for a lawsuit.
 
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