Where are WC4 weapons in prophecy?

[Quarto]

"I've been ahead of you since the last jump point" seems to imply that Piranhas can indeed jump. Unless of course, Confed has a carrier waiting at every jump point, on the off chance that a pair of Piranhas will need to be ferried to the other side

. But even then, Casey/Maestro would have said "I've been ahead of you since we took off".
BTW, this makes perfect sense. A patrol fighter might at some point need to perform recon in another system.
My mistake about the Wasp. I forgot about those missions, and I was thinking, Well, if Piranhas have them, then everyone must have them.
Oh, and if the Devastator doesn't have a jump drive, then Confed designers must be retarded. Thus, it is safe to assume that the Devastator can jump. Especially since the CIC Ships Database says so

. In fact, the CIC Ships Database says that all WCP fighters except the Wasp are jump capable. Is that good enough for ye?

Earthworm, quit harassing the newbies. You too were once a plebe. This isn't the Midway, and you're not Maniac.

And as for your argument as to why the Wasps' role would make a jump drive useful for them, think again. If the Wasps stay and fight while the carrier jumps, what happens if they encounter enemy fighters on the other side? Or will those bombers politely wait for the Wasp Interceptors to jump through as well?

 

[Death's Head]

Yeah, the Panther jumps a lot in Proph, I'm surprised that someone as detail orientated as yourself would have missed that EARTHWORM.

And when you said the Jump capable ferret was like many border world characteristicly modified ships-the ferret was acquired by Tolwyn for Paladin IIRC, Paladin has never served in the UBW as far as I know.

If you can get a jump drive in a TINY Ferret, why can't you do it to a Piranha like 12 years later?

What better a ship to put one in than the Piranha, a recon ship??

YES Casey does talk about jumping their ships. He doesn't say "WE HAVE JUST JUMPED OUR PIRANHAS", but he doesn't have to, we can infer that they jumped perhaps several times.

The WCCIC Ships Database even says the Piranha is jump capable, what more do you want???

You know what, forget it. I'm not going to pursue this issue any longer.

YEA, QUARTO! I wish I had checked this thread two minutes later, I wouldn't have had to reply.

BTW, I don't think I'm a newbie having first joined in say '98.

[This message has been edited by Death's Head (edited March 05, 2000).]

 

[Earthworm]

Yeah, the Panther jumps a lot in Proph, I'm surprised that someone as detail orientated as yourself would have missed that.

No it doesen't, it jumps only once.

And when you said the Jump capable ferret was like many border world characteristicly modified ships-the ferret was acquired by Tolwyn for Paladin IIRC, Paladin has never served in the UBW as far as I know.

WTF are you talking about? The Ferret was modified like many of the Border Worlds ships, I didn't say it was from the Border Worlds. And Paladin did serve in the free corps, which was a part of the Landreich.

If you can get a jump drive in a TINY Ferret, why can't you do it to a Piranha like 12 years later?

I didn't say you can', just that we don't know if it has one. Why doesen't the T-bolt have a JD in WC3? It's big enough to have one so why not? If Confed wanted a JD on all of their fighers they could have them. Besides that Ferret could have something taken out from it in order to have the JD, or extra fuel. Maybe it didn't have AB's, maybe it had weaker shields, there are many posibilities.

What better a ship to put one in than the Piranha, a Recon ship??

The Piranha is a short range fither. 'Nough said.

YES Casey does talk about jumping their ships. He doesn't say "WE HAVE JUST JUMPED OUR PIRANHAS", but he doesn't have to, we can infer that they jumped perhaps several times.

No we can't. He says that he was ahead of Maestro since the last jamp point. That could mean that their Piranhas were on a transport or some other capships, and it jumped in, the Piranhas launched, and Casey was ahead. It could mean that the Piranhas had all of their missiles pulled out and replaced with a jump drive, and it could be that the fighters jumped without a jump drive. In the WC4 novel the BW are using something that after a capships opens the wormhole, can open a small drift in the wormhole so the fighter can get through.

The WCCIC Ships Database even says the Piranha is jump capable, what more do you want???

The CIC ships database also says that there's a Jratakh, or some other ship in WC2, and it has the images of the Kamakh and the Fralthra reversed.

You know what, forget it. I'm not going to pursue this issue any longer.

Than why the hell did you post this?

<<Mr. Spock mode>>Maybe you runed out of logical arguments?<</Mr. Spock mode>>

 

[Earthworm]

In fact, the CIC Ships Database says that all WCP fighters except the Wasp are jump capable. Is that good enough for ye?

There are more than one mistakes in the CIC SD.

How would they know if the Shrike or the Devastator can jump?

Earthworm, quit harassing the newbies. You too were once a plebe. This isn't the Midway, and you're not Maniac.

I'm not harassing anyone.

And as for your argument as to why the Wasps' role would make a jump drive useful for them, think again. If the Wasps stay and fight while the carrier jumps, what happens if they encounter enemy fighters on the other side? Or will those bombers politely wait for the Wasp Interceptors to jump through as well?

Or maybe they'll launch the remaining Wasps? The Midway has three squadrons on board, and all of them have Wasps.

 

[Earthworm]

Yeah, the Panther jumps a lot in Proph, I'm surprised that someone as detail orientated as yourself would have missed that EARTHWORM.

Well, I couldn't missed something that happens a lot, since it happens only once DEATH'S HEAD

.

 

[Quarto]

There are more than one mistakes in the CIC SD. How would they know if the Shrike or the Devastator can jump?

Oh, indeed. There are many, many mistakes in the CIC SD. But it just so happens that those mistakes have been copied straight out of manuals

. The CIC people used credible sources; it's not their fault that the sources were wrong (except the Fralthra/Kamekh mixup). Don't forget that it was torpedo bombers that first got jump drives.

I'm not harassing anyone.

No, you're just making snide remarks. Enough.

Or maybe they'll launch the remaining Wasps? The Midway has three squadrons on board, and all of them have Wasps.

It seems to me that a situation requiring the Midway to jump out before recovering fighters would call for them to launch all Wasps.

The CIC ships database also says that there's a Jratakh, or some other ship in WC2

[Highly Amused] Do you deny the existence of the Jrathek fighter? Perhaps you deny the Wraith's existence as well? And while we're at it, the Strakha is a myth made up by Lt. Colonel Blair

.

------------------
The WC Source Code Release Project needs you!

 

[Earthworm]

There are more than one mistakes in the CIC SD. How would they know if the Shrike or the Devastator can jump?
Oh, indeed. There are many, many mistakes in the CIC SD. But it just so happens that those mistakes have been copied straight out of manuals

. The CIC people used credible sources; it's not their fault that the sources were wrong (except the Fralthra/Kamekh mixup). Don't forget that it was torpedo bombers that first got jump drives.

Ecept that neither the Prophecy manual or guide say that the Shrike Devastator or T-shark are Jump capable. It only talks about the Vamp being jump capable.

Oh, and what's that talk about torp bombers having JD first? How are we suposed to know that?

I'm not harassing anyone.
No, you're just making snide remarks. Enough.

No, I'm just arguing.

Or maybe they'll launch the remaining Wasps? The Midway has three squadrons on board, and all of them have Wasps.
It seems to me that a situation requiring the Midway to jump out before recovering fighters would call for them to launch all Wasps.

Yes, they would launch all 60 or so of them.

The CIC ships database also says that there's a Jratakh, or some other ship in WC2.
[Highly Amused] Do you deny the existence of the Jrathek fighter? Perhaps you deny the Wraith's existence as well? And while we're at it, the Strakha is a myth made up by Lt. Colonel Blair

.

He he, I deny it's existence in WC2 Quarto.



[This message has been edited by Earthworm (edited March 05, 2000).]

 

[Quarto]

Oh, and what's that talk about torp bombers having JD first? How are we suposed to know that?

I see you've never flown a Broadsword, obviously.

No, I'm just arguing.

That's a nasty habit of talking back you have there. Which part of the word "Enough" are you having trouble with? While we do not, as Death pointed out, expect you to behave "nice" in the way of Barney, we do expect a certain level of respect towards other users. Particularly new users, whose knowledge is obviously quite limited. That's why I don't want to see "Thank you for enlightening all of us", or "Erm, his a newbie and the master of the obvious".

Yes, they would launch all 60 or so of them.

Somehow I doubt that the Midway would have 60 Wasps; they've only got 252 fighters total. Besides, do you think they've got little elves back there to make those booster packs?

Contrary to popular belief, the Midway is hardly all that big, when you consider that it has a crew of 1500 in there.

He he, I deny it's existence in WC2 Quarto.

It appeared in Academy, which is set roughly in the same time frame as WC2. Of course, it was just a prototype; but so was the Morningstar, and nobody questions that ship being in WC2.

 

[Earthworm]

Oh, and what's that talk about torp bombers having JD first? How are we suposed to know that?
I see you've never flown a Broadsword, obviously.

He he, so I see you didn't see the WC movie. The Rapier Mk I has a JD. And just because the first time we saw the JD in a game was on a Broadsword doesen't mean that it didn't exist before, and on fighters.

Yes, they would launch all 60 or so of them.
Somehow I doubt that the Midway would have 60 Wasps; they've only got 252 fighters total. Besides, do you think they've got little elves back there to make those booster packs?

Contrary to popular belief, the Midway is hardly all that big, when you consider that it has a crew of 1500 in there.

Um, the Midway has a crew of 6,000. Including pilots and a 1,500 big marine unit.

Now, the Midway has 252 fighters. It has seven different types of fighters on board. 20 Piranhas, Panthers, Vampires, Devastators and Shrikes, because only one sqadron each uses those, 40 T-sharks because two squadrons use them, 60 Wasps because all squadrosn use them. That's 200 fighters, leaving space for 52 more fighter sized ships.

He he, I deny it's existence in WC2 Quarto.
It appeared in Academy, which is set roughly in the same time frame as WC2. Of course, it was just a prototype; but so was the Morningstar, and nobody questions that ship being in WC2.

But it never apeared in WC2 like the Morningstar. The CIC SD is seperated by who uses the fighters in each game, so it's obviously a mistake. So what if Academy was at about the same time as WC2? SO and Prophecy are seperated by only few weeks, and the CIC gived SO it's own page for fighters.




[This message has been edited by Earthworm (edited March 05, 2000).]

 

[Death's Head]

Maybe you runed out of logical arguments?

If that's true, then I might not be the only one.

Than why the hell did you post this?

I'm not even going to start with that, because it might be something you don't understand.

Holy shit Earthworm what's with these posts one after another. Even I go back and edit the previous one if someone just posted a reply seconds before me rather than having two posts btb.

What's this, you don't think Academy counts as part of WC2? True it is a stand alone game like SO, but it is still a legit game. The Wraith and Jrathek do exist *cough*ARMADA!*cough*

And while we're at it, the Strakha is a myth made up by Lt. Colonel Blair

Stop Quarto I'm laughing to tears man! I love it, you're the man.

Are you serious earthworm? 60 wasps? Let's have 120 Devastators while we're at it. I don't see the logic. I have seen Panthers launched and deployed in 6s, but I haven't seen Wasps or Devastators flying in 6s. Just becuase their are seven fighter types on the Midway doesn't mean 252 is divided evenly by seven.

I ship's complement is made up by each squadron's needs.

30 Wasps sounds more realistic.

I'll bet you think that there are 10 of each fighter on Cerberus too, don't you?

Smaller ships are different from larger ones. For one, uh size-the small ship can't afford as much flexibility as the large ones. That's why the Victory had ten of each fighter class. That was during the war, where fighter demands were high and led to ships being vaguely specialized. The Victory could "merely" handle the minimum requirements for a fighter carrier.

It simply isn't "logical" as you are fond of using to assume all ships are separated into fighter groups in such a manner.

I'll use something you can relate to, a novel. The TCS Lexington had an extra squad of hellcats and Arrows. Why? Because they are cheaper, and an effective way to bolster the FC. Plus, there is a greater demand for multi-purpose ships in this era-the hellcat, and a cheaper yet fighter that is fast, easy to maintain, and versatile-the arrow.

In the 2681 era, the ships are far more specialized. Some ships can take on and deystroy capships, others can only harm turrets, other ships are limited to short range combat-taking on bombers, others still are devoted to dealing with fighters.

Make a Wasp jump capable? OMFG! LOL. If the Wasp had that kind of endurance, it wouldn't be a short range interceptor. At least the Piranha can afford to devote more energy to drives, that includes JDs. Uh-*cites the Piranha's minimal recharge rates*

Ecept that neither the Prophecy manual or guide say that the Shrike Devastator or T-shark are Jump capable. It only talks about the Vamp being jump capable.

Oh, and what's that talk about torp bombers having JD first? How are we suposed to know that?

Oh man. Ah let me think, SO A BOMBER CAN GO AFTER A CARRIER WITHOUT SUPPORT?

I don't have to know it, we can infer. I agree with Quarto, if they didn't put a JD on the Devastator or Shrike the designers must have been retarded.

So what if Academy was at about the same time as WC2? SO and Prophecy are seperated by only few weeks, and the CIC gived SO it's own page for fighters.

Ah then are the SO fighters um prototypes or not real fighters?

I fail to see the significance of what you said.

 

[Quarto]

He he, so I see you didn't see the WC movie. The Rapier Mk I has a JD. And just because the first time we saw the JD in a game was on a Broadsword doesen't mean that it didn't exist before, and on fighters.

There were also Broadswords in the movie. Which were newer?

Um, the Midway has a crew of 6,000. Including pilots and a 1,500 big marine unit.

Uh... my mistake

. I looked at the wrong number; I wasn't really looking at what the number means. But that just proves my point, does it not?

Now, the Midway has 252 fighters. It has seven different types of fighters on board. 20 Piranhas, Panthers, Vampires, Devastators and Shrikes, because only one sqadron each uses those, 40 T-sharks because two squadrons use them, 60 Wasps because all squadrosn use them. That's 200 fighters, leaving space for 52 more fighter sized ships.

The 52 spare spaces prove your reasoning is wrong. But either way, you're looking a it all wrong. A Piranha is not as useful as a Vampire, for example. So your reasoning of 20 fighters per squadron is pretty darned messed up. They have to have spare fighters of the more used types (Vampire, Panther, Tigershark, Shrike, Devastator) to make up for the inevitable losses on combat missions. And while the Wasp is certainly very important in its role, you have to consider that it's really reserved for emergencies, where enemy fighters penetrate the Midway's screen of fighter patrols. I don't think the Midway crew enjoy watching Mantas on torpedo runs - thus, we can assume that there will be a lot more fighters for long-range patrols than there will be for emergency scramble situations. Prevention is better than cure, and offense is the best defense, after all.

But it never apeared in WC2 like the Morningstar. The CIC SD is seperated by who uses the fighters in each game, so it's obviously a mistake. So what if Academy was at about the same time as WC2? SO and Prophecy are seperated by only few weeks, and the CIC gived SO it's own page for fighters.

Wow, I guess you can read their minds, if you're so certain that it's just a mistake. Do you really think that they would accidentally slip those two fighters in there, fail to notice doing so, and then forget to create a separate section for Academy? "That is an unlikely sequence of malfunctions."
Oh, wait. I guess it was sabotage then

.

The reason SO got its own section, was because just about every ship in it was different, and they didn't want to confuse people by having "Black" ships alongside normal ones. Particularly with people like you, who would start complaining about how SO has to have its own section because it's not an add-on to WCP.

 

[Earthworm]

He he, so I see you didn't see the WC movie. The Rapier Mk I has a JD. And just because the first time we saw the JD in a game was on a Broadsword doesen't mean that it didn't exist before, and on fighters.
There were also Broadswords in the movie. Which were newer?

The Rapier in the movie is over 100 years old.

Um, the Midway has a crew of 6,000. Including pilots and a 1,500 big marine unit.
Uh... my mistake

. I looked at the wrong number; I wasn't really looking at what the number means. But that just proves my point, does it not?

Not realy.

Now, the Midway has 252 fighters. It has seven different types of fighters on board. 20 Piranhas, Panthers, Vampires, Devastators and Shrikes, because only one sqadron each uses those, 40 T-sharks because two squadrons use them, 60 Wasps because all squadrosn use them. That's 200 fighters, leaving space for 52 more fighter sized ships.
The 52 spare spaces prove your reasoning is wrong.

No, it proves that there are 52 other fighters, that are held in reserve, or are used for testing, or that each sqadrong has a little over 20 pilots.

But either way, you're looking a it all wrong. A Piranha is not as useful as a Vampire, for example. So your reasoning of 20 fighters per squadron is pretty darned messed up. They have to have spare fighters of the more used types (Vampire, Panther, Tigershark, Shrike, Devastator) to make up for the inevitable losses on combat missions.

Exactly, and that's where the remaining 52 fighters come in. They're used for reserve.

And while the Wasp is certainly very important in its role, you have to consider that it's really reserved for emergencies, where enemy fighters penetrate the Midway's screen of fighter patrols. I don't think the Midway crew enjoy watching Mantas on torpedo runs - thus, we can assume that there will be a lot more fighters for long-range patrols than there will be for emergency scramble situations. Prevention is better than cure, and offense is the best defense, after all.

Again, I agree, but that doesen't change the fact that there are 3 full squadrons that use them. So one pilot in each squadron should have one Wasp, and few should be held in reserve.

But it never apeared in WC2 like the Morningstar. The CIC SD is seperated by who uses the fighters in each game, so it's obviously a mistake. So what if Academy was at about the same time as WC2? SO and Prophecy are seperated by only few weeks, and the CIC gived SO it's own page for fighters.
Wow, I guess you can read their minds, if you're so certain that it's just a mistake. Do you really think that they would accidentally slip those two fighters in there, fail to notice doing so, and then forget to create a separate section for Academy? "That is an unlikely sequence of malfunctions."
Oh, wait. I guess it was sabotage then

.

They don't have a section for Academy? Why?

The reason SO got its own section, was because just about every ship in it was different, and they didn't want to confuse people by having "Black" ships alongside normal ones.

He he, I thought it was just because it's a seperate game

Particularly with people like you, who would start complaining about how SO has to have its own section because it's not an add-on to WCP.

Yeah, you're right and now I'll start complaining that Academy isn't an add-on to WC2.

 

[Quarto]

The Rapier in the movie is over 100 years old.

Who says that it wasn't fitted with a jump drive later on? The Rapier in the game was upgraded during its first ten years of service. Do you really think that the movie Rapier could go for a hundred years without being upgraded? Particularly when you consider that the Akwende Drive was developed later than the Rapier

.

Not realy.

Ah, that's got to be your most imaginative argument today. Can't argue with that

. But obviously, neither can you

.

No, it proves that there are 52 other fighters, that are held in reserve, or are used for testing, or that each sqadrong has a little over 20 pilots.

You forget about the various support ships, which take up a lot more space.

Again, I agree, but that doesen't change the fact that there are 3 full squadrons that use them. So one pilot in each squadron should have one Wasp, and few should be held in reserve.

Why? What are the chances of all three squadrons having to scramble at the same time? If they have to do that, then they might as well just surrender, because either 1. Their CO is too dumb to understand the value of CAP, FORCAP, BARCAP and all the others, or,
2. The pilots are too dumb to obey their orders, and didn't go out on patrol.
Indeed, twenty-thirty Wasps would already be more than is ever needed. Plus, of course, ten or so back-ups. Or a few little elves, depending on which is more convenient

.

They don't have a section for Academy? Why?

1. Because it's the same time frame.
2. Because only two ships are new, and the others are all the same. Essentially, a separate section would mean an utter waste of space and time.

He he, I thought it was just because it's a seperate game.

I know you did

. Which is quite dumb of you, since the games are merely convenient ways of dividing the whole thing into time frames. I mean, they could use years instead, but then you'd have too much in the '81 year, with all those Black and standard ships. As well, of course, as some major confusion in '69, with ships from Armada, Priv, and WC3 all in one spot

.

Yeah, you're right and now I'll start complaining that Academy isn't an add-on to WC2.

You'd better not, if you know what's good for you. We all know it's a separate game; but frankly, that's just a formality. Focus on the content, not on the exterior.


------------------
The WC Source Code Release Project needs you!

 

[Earthworm]

The Rapier in the movie is over 100 years old.

Who says that it wasn't fitted with a jump drive later on? The Rapier in the game was upgraded during its first ten years of service. Do you really think that the movie Rapier could go for a hundred years without being upgraded? Particularly when you consider that the Akwende Drive was developed later than the Rapier

.[/QUOTE]

Who says it wasn’t fitted with a jump drive 50 years before WCM? Who says it wasn’t fitted with one earlier than the Broadsword. Besides the WC2 Rapier is more than just upgraded. It’s a new ship.

Not realy.
Ah, that's got to be your most imaginative argument today. Can't argue with that

. But obviously, neither can you

.

Except it’s not an argument, but an answer.

No, it proves that there are 52 other fighters, that are held in reserve, or are used for testing, or that each sqadrong has a little over 20 pilots.
You forget about the various support ships, which take up a lot more space.

Support ships? The Midway carries 252 fighters and bombers, shutles and other ships like that aren’t included in that.

Again, I agree, but that doesen't change the fact that there are 3 full squadrons that use them. So one pilot in each squadron should have one Wasp, and few should be held in reserve.
Why? What are the chances of all three squadrons having to scramble at the same time?

Prety small, that doesen’t change the fact that there are 3 squadrons, and I doubt that they would be switching the ships between squadrons.

If they have to do that, then they might as well just surrender, because either 1. Their CO is too dumb to understand the value of CAP, FORCAP, BARCAP and all the others,

What if there is a need to launch all squadrons with Wasps? What if there’s an enemy capship, with at least 60 fighters? You send the Wasps, they take down the fighters, and turrets on the cap, and then fly back to the Midway to get to the bombers.

2. The pilots are too dumb to obey their orders, and didn't go out on patrol.
Indeed, twenty-thirty Wasps would already be more than is ever needed. Plus, of course, ten or so back-ups. Or a few little elves, depending on which is more convenient

.

Except that when a ship jumps into a system, and imedietly sees an enemy strike force, you won’t launch any patrols, because there’s no need for them.

They don't have a section for Academy? Why?
1. Because it's the same time frame.
2. Because only two ships are new, and the others are all the same. Essentially, a separate section would mean an utter waste of space and time.

Then why not just put the ships by date instead of confusing someone about there being a new ship in WC2?

He he, I thought it was just because it's a seperate game.
I know you did

. Which is quite dumb of you, since the games are merely convenient ways of dividing the whole thing into time frames. I mean, they could use years instead, but then you'd have too much in the '81 year, with all those Black and standard ships. As well, of course, as some major confusion in '69, with ships from Armada, Priv, and WC3 all in one spot

.

Thank you for that complement Quarto.

Dividing it into time frames would be a better way to put the ships even if sometimes one year would have much more ships than the rest.

Yeah, you're right and now I'll start complaining that Academy isn't an add-on to WC2.
You'd better not, if you know what's good for you. We all know it's a separate game; but frankly, that's just a formality. Focus on the content, not on the exterior.

As you wish my lord Prince.

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A good soldier is not the one who die for his country, it's the one who makes his enemy die for his.
Gen. Patton

 

[Nob Akimoto]

Well....

First, as the Wasp IS a short range interceptor, it wouldn't really make sense for a ship to stock up on so many of em. Better off having more multirole versatile craft. As it is they have rather low endurance(the Black Wasp doesn't count, it's not a mass production model ship.) and can't do much more than squash bombers(admittingly it does that well), and seeing as thus, having over a fifth of it's compliment be interceptors would cut down greatly on the Midway's long range power projection capabilities(which is exactly what a carrier is SUPPOSED to do.) You don't see the US using tons of F-14s do you? They're switching to more versatile(though cheaper, and inferior in air interception) F/A-18s for the shear value of a multirole(and hence cheaper to mass produce) craft out of a tighter budget. Though Confed seems to have taken a slightly different route, they probably produce as a whole, FAR more Panthers and Tigersharks, than they do any other craft for the simple reason that they can do a whole lot more than the others while being reasonable in price.(Price area is conjecture).

I've never been up to date on the squadron composition in WC(mainly since they never really go in depth with it), but wouldn't 3 squadrons be about 42 ships?(Base figure, 3 wings with 252 fighters, 84 fighters per wing, 6 squads per wing with 14 per squad, a single dedicated squadron for interceptors). Just seems that 60 is WAY too high of a figure. (And otherwise you really couldn't get much diversity per air wing. 1 Interceptor, 2 bomber, and 3 superiority? 1 Wasp, 1 Dev, 1 Shrike, 1 Panther, 1 Vamp, and 1 T-shark per wing? Doesn't seem to balance out too well...oh well I'll have to rethink that again I guess).

Quarto was comparing the F-44-A Rapier II from WC1 to the F-44-G Rapier II in WC2. Yes they actually DO look a bit different, but as the registries show they ARE the same ship. Sorta like the difference between F/A-18-A Hornets and F/A-18-E "Super" Hornets. The latter is much larger, and has several design changes as well as newer systems as a whole. It IS common for fighters to go through dozens of revisions(look at the F-16..there's liek 30 varients).

------------------
"I hope you make it, Tarkington. Just don't pull the handle till after we've hit. Promise me."
"I'm behind you all the way CAG..."
-Captain Jacob Lee "Coolhand" Grafton, and Lieutenant Robert "Toad" Tarkington, Final Flight

 

[Bandit LOAF]

Enough! When did Earthworm go from being the next candidate for moderator to being what is displayed above? The only thing worse than someone who thinks he knows everything and will bite people to death if they try to disagree with him (like me!) is someone who is actually wrong who thinks he knows everything and will bite people to death if they try to disagree with him.

I have reviewed this thread. These are my comments-

Sosa and Catscratch are probably *not* still with the UBW, since the UBW has no standing military.

The Tigershark is the latest evolution of the Hellcat.

There's absolutely no evidence that the Bearcat 'got cancelled'. We just haven't seen it since Wing IV. We didn't see Thunderbolts in WCP, but we find out later that they're still in service, don't we? Our one character on the Midway is *NOT* omniscentient. If I go to an Air Force base and don't see a B-2, will I assume that the Air Force has no B-2's?

The following Prophecy ships have jump drives: the Piranha, because of the dialogue in the intro. Arguing that it can't have a jump drive because you don't want it to have a jump drive is *BAD*. The Shrike and Devestator both jump at points in the game, as do the Vampire and Panther.
The Piranha can perform *recon* missions, and as thus is not a soley short range fighter.

The jump capable Ferret wasn't one of the Landreich's modified ships -- it was something Tolwyn had put onboard the black ops ship Bannockburn.

The Landreich and the Border Worlds are not one and the same.

The earliest known fighter-sized vessel to mount a jump drive was the Wasp personal transport. We are told several times that *bombers* were the first ships to use jump drives, but are never given a particular class. The CF-117b Rapier mounts a jump drive -- this version entered service in 2645.

The Midway has a crew of 7,000, including pilots and marines.

WCA: A mistake? What the fuck? Die die die. It should be *painfully* obvious that the reason the two WCA ships are in the WC2 sections because there is absolutely *NO* point to have indexes for WCA: Kilrathi and WCA: Confed when there's *only* one ship in each.

We do not measure by time because the ship database is 'game based'. A universe based ships database is coming in the near future.

The Midway's specific fighter complement is *unknown*. It is absolutely pointless to make up numbers. 'I'm right because there are 52 extra, hahahaha!' and the ilk just makes you look foolish

Furthermore, we *know* that each pilot doesn't get multiple fighters. And before you argue, there are obviously pilots *not* listed on the scoreboard, given that we see their names at Dallas' funeral and in the scene where casualties are listed to the CAG.


------------------
Long live the Confederation,
Ben "Bandit" Lesnick
( loaf@wcnews.com - 302228)

The Wing Commander CIC

"You go, LOAF! Get some!" -JPG

Bombardez les Ptitard!

 

[Death's Head]

Thanks Loaf. I got more info out of that than all the post in the past week.

 

[Earthworm]

OK, I'd like to apologize to all people whom I pissed of, and if I insulted anyone.

LOAF says: The only thing worse than someone who thinks he knows everything and will bite people to death if they try to disagree with him (like me!) is someone who is actually wrong who thinks he knows everything and will bite people to death if they try to disagree with him.

Except that I don't think I know everything.

But if I do think I'm right, I will argue about it.

Sosa and Catscratch are probably *not* still with the UBW, since the UBW has no standing military.

"After the Black Lance affair, the Terran Confederation and the Border Worlds moved aggressively to re-cement their damaged relationship. One of the diplomatic tools employed was a compact increasing in military exchange and cooperation between the two governments, including provision for the transfer of officers of all ranks between the militaries of each."

Doesen't that mean the UBW does have a military?

Besides, why wouldn't they have a military like the Landreich?

The Tigershark is the latest evolution of the Hellcat.

Of course it is. Was it said that it isn't?

The following Prophecy ships have jump drives: the Piranha, because of the dialogue in the intro. Arguing that it can't have a jump drive because you don't want it to have a jump drive is *BAD*.

He he, but I don't care if the Piranha has a jump drive. There is no evidence that it does though. In the WC4 novel, Blair and Maniac get to the BW fleet because a capship opened a rift in the wormhole large enough for the fighters. All I'm saying is that there are other ways for those Piranhas to get through a jump point.

The Shrike and Devestator both jump at points in the game, as do the Vampire and Panther.

Where do the Shrike and Devastator jump in Prophecy or SO?

The Piranha can perform *recon* missions, and as thus is not a soley short range fighter.

OK.

The jump capable Ferret wasn't one of the Landreich's modified ships -- it was something Tolwyn had put onboard the black ops ship Bannockburn.

But no one here said that it was one of the Landreich ships.

The Landreich and the Border Worlds are not one and the same.

Well of course they're not.

We are told several times that *bombers* were the first ships to use jump drives, but are never given a particular class.

Where was that said? Action Stations?

Midway has a crew of 7,000, including pilots and marines.

".... and a 1,500 man Marine Expeditionary Unit, for a total complement of up to 6000 personnel." From the ICIS manual. Where is it said that it has 7,000?

I'm right because there are 52 extra, hahahaha!' and the ilk just makes you look foolish

Um, OK, except that isn't what I said.

Furthermore, we *know* that each pilot doesn't get multiple fighters.

We know that the Wolf Pack and Diamond Backs have 3 different types of fighters, and the Black Widows have four. So each pilot can have mulitiple fighters for different missions.

And before you argue, there are obviously pilots *not* listed on the scoreboard, given that we see their names at Dallas' funeral and in the scene where casualties are listed to the CAG.

You're right, but we know that Midway class has three fighter squadrons. And though I don't belive we're ever told how many pilots a squadron has, I'd assume it could be between 10 to about 30. Though I don't see any reasons why those names wouldn't be on the killboard.


BTW, did anyone notice that Dallas has a different name in the game than in the official guide to Prophecy, and the SO fiction? Which one is the official one?

 

[Quarto]

I was wondering when LOAF might come by

.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

*sigh* You're still being an asshole

More notes...

The Secret Ops fiction (available at secretops.com) makes clear that the Confederation is nos charged with protecting the Border Worlds. The *Landreich* is an *enemy* of the Confederation, and as thus sort of needs a military.

You obviously *do* care whether or not the Piranha has a jump drive -- since you're willing to offer incredibly stupid and far fetched ideas to explain why it doesn't. That's bad. If you want to argue moronic what ifs, then I note that if the Confederation has the ability to open jump points for fighters, then the Midway would have been able to recover the Wasps after jumping out system.

Replacement Shrikes jump in during the WCP demo.

Furthermore, Tigersharks jump in Secret Ops, in Ella 7031.0A.

The Prophecy Guide says that the Midway has a crew of 7,000.

Carriers have the same number of pilots as they do fighters. I ask that you trust me on this, but if you'd like I can name enough Tiger's Claw pilots to prove this point.

Dallas' name in Prophecy is the 'official' one. This is fixed in the second edition of the Guide.

And stop with the quoting little bits. It's fucking annoying.