Whee, we made Slashdot

Status
Not open for further replies.
Right...

What's better than hosting a potentially illegal download? Pretending it doens't exist. Real smart.

This thread is a perfect example of miscommunication and haphazard ideas. MamiyaOtaru, please say something here, or talk to LOAF and assure him there is nothing to worry about so this thread can go away.
 
anything wrong?

What's wrong with pretending it doesn't exist?
The file isn't hosted on this server.
the server isn't linking to the file.
Nothing is wrong with that, even if there are problems with the file itself, hosted elsewhere
 
Yes, please, we really need to hear from MamiyaOtaru or whoever took care of the legal aspects of this project.

In addition to being a legal issue, it's also a relatsionship issue -- we rely on EA's cooperation for all sorts of other things, and if what we've been doing is hosting an illegal copy of their game then we need to work things out with them very quickly.
 
shivan said:
In my mind, EA has abandoned Privateer and Wing Commander. We have been waiting for them to come up with a way to play the original game on these silly windows boxes. Not since Windows 95 have you even had a prayer of playing the great classics without something like DOSbox.

If EA and some of those other gaming companies would get off their asses and provide us with newer versions we can actually play, we would buy it in a heartbeat. But no, they have moved on to glitzier games... I even used to keep a windows 3.1 machine just so I could play Privateer.
Click to expand...

Careful, this is the abandonware arguement. EA has not 'abandoned' Privateer and WC, they are just not building on it at this time or the close future. They have not, however, given up their rights to the IP (by closing their doors and abandoning their IP, or by giving it a community license/open license (is that the right term?). They effectively have those rights for over 50 years or something (US patents office can confirm this) If they do not defend their IP they can lose it (long legalese here, but this is a very brief nutshell).

All fangames are in violation of the IP to one degree or another. Standoff & UE use ship model designs (IP) belonging to EA, the WC universe etc and so impinge, but gameplay content is their own development. Priv Remake is one step further, using more content from one of the original games (well virtually all content, just a different engine to play under today's computers). The next level up is ripping a copy of a game directly (copy the disks, or get from abandonware sites).

Hence, WCNews doesn't support links to abandonware & warez sites.

EA can request (at any time) that fan development cease (infringement on their IP). This can range from unofficially remaking their games to run on modern computers (PR), using their content to develop fan games (Standoff, UE etc), even to requesting that WCNews shutdown since it uses pictures, information etc which is part of EA's IP. Proviso of course is that someone gets their permission beforehand.

They tend to be lax in that as long as no one else profits from their IP, they basically let us support fandom WC - instant fanbase for any potential new titles - hence instant sales dollars. But, they still have the power anyway.

Is PR substantially different to the various other developments out there: Privateer: The Reckoning, Standoff, UE etc? Are those differences enough to cause problems? I don't know.

If it will cause a problem, we need to fix it. If that means shutting down PR, then so be it. Personally, I'd rather lose PR, than lose access to the whole WC universe/community. If it means getting some sort of unofficial or official permission (maybe with the understanding that downloads would be removed if EA developed a similar update/WC addition), so be it - it should be done.

Note: personally, I would have liked to have known about this and been able to resolve it - beforehand. LOAF, did this occur to you before you received those emails you mentioned?

As always, if I have any points wrong, please correct for me.
 
the project is made for this community, and people are making too much of a fuss about it.

the /. and bluesnews posts are really more frustrating than helpful.

the real problem here is that too many people are paying too much attention.

EA would have said something if we had stepped on any feet. the project wasn't exactly kept secret, and it's been enough time since the 1.0 for someone to send any complaints.

no one is upset over ancient materials that have ceased giving income years ago.
but too much exposure is just gonna step on some toes. so i'm irritated at how much attention priv remake has gotten.

as far as what silverain said, i've been saying it all along. there is nothing here (at the cic) that is legally immune to EA's will.

so far EA has had no reason to get upset over anything. they have no WC product around, so we're not competing with them. there is simply no reason to care. im more concerned with shoving it in their face than what is being shoved :-/


-scheherazade
 
Scheherazade (& all),

I'm really sorry for this, but an apologist stance will not help much here.

If the project might have been some small fanfic creation, everybody would say: How nice, let's try it and forget it after a while. You might have drawn a sizeable crowd of fans, but that'd be it.

But we're talking about Privateer here - the game that's still quoted every time anything remotely resembling a trade/fight sim hits the market. The game that anyone still remembers and longs to play.

According to extremetracking, the site has drawn close to 100.000 hits this week - so I think you can't talk about "people paying too much attention". It's the same as if somebody would rebuild the Titanic to scale in their backyard and then ask nobody to notice it too much.

I think it's high time to take action, before action is taken by someone else.
 
@Riley Pizt

"hot button" topic or not, no need to call me names. Do you insult people outside of the internet, too? I already wrote, that I made a mistake.

"Privateer" is a registered trademark of Electronic Arts (serial no. 74298485)
Click to expand...

Yeah, but to keep your trademark you have to defend and *use* it. After a certain period of time, a trademark may get exposed to removal from registration. The last privateer game came out 1996.
But I invite you to correct me (if you can stay mature...).

As far as end users are concerned, if a user has a legitimate copy of the original Privateer game (and I do), that user can legally posses and use this remake even if EA doesn't approve its distribution.
Click to expand...

And as far as end users in china are concerned, they can give a fuck and just play it without any license. The problem is, that you haven´t to provide evidence that you posses the original to download/play it. If privateer isn´t abandonware and the developers don´t have a permission, this release ist no more than a warez hack. I´m more concerned about the CIC website at the moment.
 
This game hasn't been on sale for 10 years. I bought it in 1995 and it was already "bargain bin" by then. I highly doubt that EA are going to come looking for you guys....there is no financial gain or loss in this product for them
 
I would just like to point out that not only will the WC server be at legal risk here, but also our beloved sourceforge (and its mirrors), as that is where the actual game files are.
 
the worst that can happen is one of 2 things.

EA tells us to take down the project, in which case we do.

or

EA contacts the filehost serverprovider and tells them to remove the files.

nobody is in danger unless they refuse to comply with EA.
If EA choses to change their so-far-now-for-a-good-long-while tolerant stance on WC, it could happen.

which is why i'm concerned with the attention making them change their mind.

the project was available in 99% of the shape of the 1.0 release, for months before the 1.0 release. why all the attention now after we touch up a few minor things? cause some people sent info about the release to bluesnews and /.. that in itself is why there are 100k+ people visiting the site. project completion is a minority influence in this case. for all intents and purposes, the project has been complete for months.

-scheherazade
 
Note: personally, I would have liked to have known about this and been able to resolve it - beforehand. LOAF, did this occur to you before you received those emails you mentioned?
Click to expand...

No, it didn't. I just assumed they'd taken care of it much earlier, as they've been posting versions for quite a while.

I really just need to know what the status is -- if Hellcat et al. didn't get any permissions, I will happily go to bat for them with EA legal (which I've worked with before)... but I really need to know the situation before I'm forced to know it.
 
1.0 is a psychological release number, meaning "finished." If the only change from 0.99 to 1.0 would be a spelling fix it wouldn't matter wrt. attention.
 
Yea even if EA does decide to flex thier muscles here, this project has been around long enough that it wouldn't have much case. You can't sit around and let a project reach full development and THEN enforce a trademark/copyright.
 
scheherazade0xf said:
the /. and bluesnews posts are really more frustrating than helpful.
Click to expand...
Slashdot effectively exists so that naysayers and wannabe lawyers can practice their "craft" over the Internet.

The bottom line is that the hosts of any files which might infringe copyright which are located in the United States are immune from liability so long as they comply with any legitimate DCMA takedown request from the copyright holder. So, until such a request comes, don't worry about hosting the files.
 
criticalmass said:
I think it's high time to take action, before action is taken by someone else.
Click to expand...
That is absolutely ridiculous reasoning. The only thing you will accomplish by rocking the boat now is to turn it over prematurely.
 
kilolima said:
I would just like to point out that not only will the WC server be at legal risk here, but also our beloved sourceforge (and its mirrors), as that is where the actual game files are.
Click to expand...
No servers are at risk. If you receive a takedown notice, you simply remove the specified files. No one is going to come confiscate your servers or shutdown your site completely. Sourceforge has remove material from its servers before per proper request from copyright holders. It's no big deal. The pont is you should not go waving a red flag in front of a bull unless you want it to come after you. Let the bull seek you out on its own if it is going to do so.
 
Riley, I agree with you on the first part. About the bull issue, as LOAF said, they have a pretty good relationship with EA and I´m pretty sure they want it to stay as a peaceful cow, and the best way to do that is to be completely honest with them.
 
Riley Pizt said:
That is absolutely ridiculous reasoning. The only thing you will accomplish by rocking the boat now is to turn it over prematurely.
Click to expand...

Let me tell you that I riley don't appreciate your argumentative stance here. If you want to argue, please state your opinion or at least tell me what you suggest people should do.

This community had a good relationship to Origin in the past, and the contacts to EA are at least friendly and cooperative. If ever EA will think about doing something with their WC licenses, I'd like it to be the people in this community who are asked for their opinions and ideas.

But if we show that that we don't care about their intellectual property, then you've shown the red flag to the bull once and for all.

Or, to stay in your metaphor: I don't think it is wise to let the boat run as it is, claim it to be unsinkable and wait for a teeny weeny iceberg like EA to come and challenge us.

To sum it up: It may create an outcry with the fans, but my vote goes for immediate action until the legal status is resolved. It will be an act of showing responsibility for intellectual property, it will cost a minimal amount of embarassment, and it will actually win support and an even bigger fanbase after the case is cleared.
 
Silverain said:
... even to requesting that WCNews shutdown since it uses pictures, information etc which is part of EA's IP.
Click to expand...

Why on earth are you trying to muddy the already FUD-filled waters even more?

There is no such thing as IP (unless you talk about Internet Protocol).

What we're talking about here is plain copyright (except for the potential "Privateer" trademark, which I considered abandoned since a decade why they have no grounds - but I digress).

Copyright is clear. Copy (by whatever means) someones works without the permission of the copyright holder, in a way that is not protected under "fair use" (in the jurisdiction you are in), and you are in violation of applicable copyright law. It's as simple as that.

That copyright as it is today is completely unsuitable, even idiotic, when applied to media for a game released a decade ago (while giving the holder the copyright 70 years after its death - please, someone, tell me when do a soulless company "die"?) is a completely different matter.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top