What is with the Nephilim?

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TheBLACKLION said:
Well what about a hive mind, a form of advanced telepathy, then they could communicate across vast distances without comm-relays or they build organic ones right on the spot. They send a sub-Queen through the gate to manage the drones and recon ships, a few more for defence and attack...the Queen to hatch more drones, and we are the food/resource material along with the Kilrathi....They make a small hive here to work from using privateers and other people who travel the outer rims, scouting, and such as recon data and resource material. We know the ships are living beings themselves, just not intelligent, and so why can't they be using us as both food and resource material. Kinda like the desert wasp uses the tarantuala(sp)for a hatchery and food source. They then build everything they need out of genetic material here, advancing as they go....Make sense?

We've already ruled out a hive-mind. I forget who said it, but read the earlier posts, you'll catch it. I think it was Shane, but I'm not sure. There were no drones, or anything like that, at least none we saw. Every thing was brought in on transports and assembled, or it was brought through the gate whole and on its own. Plus, if they could communicate long distances without comm relays, why did they build them? I can remember taking out two, but there could have been more. Wait, no, you didn't take out two, but if you didn't get it the first time, you got it the next. It was the same mission Wolfpack squadron comes aboard.

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Member of the LMG and hating it (Disgruntled Man)
Real heros wear SCBAs, not capes.--Me.
 
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Uh... just a question, fellas. How did they get the Ship Killer through?
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They opened the gate from the other side. Presumably, on the other side they already had a gate for ages - it's just that they needed to have gates on both sides to keep the thing open permanently (it's probably easier to keep that thing open than to keep opening it). Therefore, I think my scout theory makes perfect sense. They sent a scout ship through, he flew around the system (without shooting at things - and that's why he didn't get noticed), then he returned to the gateway at a previously decided time, and the bugs opened it to let him through.

Shane: Confed did cover up (actually, "cover up" is the wrong term; "deny" is better) the Nephilem encounters in Vega and Sol, but the fact remains that the bugs got all the way to Sol without being noticed. How else can you explain the fact that we only went after the bug fleet once they got themselves entrenched in Proxima? Surely, if such a vast fleet was detected while moving, Confed would have thrown everything they had at it.
 
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The bigger the war, the bigger the budget...
and less civilian interference. I just saw a portion of Discovery Channel's vid on the Haarp Project in Alaska. Lot of concern on military funded research - general opinion was not enough explanation on the effects of heating the ionosphere to the environment. Quite sinister some say. So even in the 27th century, the military and the civilians put such inconveniences against the other. As usual, the confed is being sinister about it. Well, it's the Price of Freedom
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Turn me loose, Colonel.
This is what I live for!
 
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Quarto said:
Uh... just a question, fellas. How did they get the Ship Killer through?
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They opened the gate from the other side. Presumably, on the other side they already had a gate for ages - it's just that they needed to have gates on both sides to keep the thing open permanently (it's probably easier to keep that thing open than to keep opening it). Therefore, I think my scout theory makes perfect sense. They sent a scout ship through, he flew around the system (without shooting at things - and that's why he didn't get noticed), then he returned to the gateway at a previously decided time, and the bugs opened it to let him through.

That makes no sense. If it were so easy to keep opening them, we would have had wormholes EVERYWHERE, not just in Kilrah and Proxmia, but everywhere there was an applicable one. And I don't remember hearing anything about other anatomical surges from K-105, you'd think that a few in a relitively short period of time would be mentioned, wouldn't you? And Quarto, watch the opening scene, when the gate comes through. The towers come through, and as Finley said, once the towers are there, they're there, until they are destroyed and the wormhole then slams shut. I highly doubt that they can open and close them at will.

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Member of the LMG and hating it (Disgruntled Man)
Real heros wear SCBAs, not capes.--Me.
 
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What if the Bugs had made it all the way to Earth, and some how infected or took over the ConFed Brass. That would explain why they would deny the existance of the Bugs. That would also explain why they captured Blair, the only member of the Brass not yet converted...I know I am stretching for a plot here, but sounds good...conspiracy within a conspiracy?
As for the gate therory, what if its more of a dimensional rift. Even if it is a wormhole, maybe they have the tech to make a temp. one where ever they need it.


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BLACKLION
Special Operations
"Kind of a bummer have your butt kicked by a dead guy!"

[This message has been edited by TheBLACKLION (edited August 03, 2000).]
 
You're silly, Knight
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. How could those towers come through if they don't have the ability to open the jump point at will?
 
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I think I finally see where you are going Quarto. They can open the rift from the far side without having the gateway here. They have to open it somewhat for the gateway to begin to come through in the first place. You are proposing they made a samller opening, just large enough to get a scout ship through (which might even put out less of a signature than the big opening did.) They agree to reopen it after, say, 24 hours. Possible...

The reports form SO that I read, seem to suggest small craft missing, not really big engagemnt with the bugs. My thinking goes something like this. The bugs opened theri gateway in our space at Kilrah because of some unique property. The reason there aren't gateways popping up everywhere is because the right conditions need to be met. The bugs realize that one point is not a good way, so they do send out scouting parties, looking for other places to develop the gates. These are not huge fleets, but maybe cruisers or light carriers that van carry a small complement of fighters to help defend the ships, but their primary mission is not to fight. However, they may come across ships, or stations that detect them and they move quickly to neutralize these targets to try to keep that info from being spread. Yes, by destroying ships they raise suspicion, but if they had already been deteced, it is the lesser of two evils to destroy the ship and make some folks ssupicious instead of letting a ship escape and report what it saw. It's a little vague how much traffic passes through certain areas. Remember that Confed isn't at war so it may not make frequent patrols of certain areas. As I've said 15 times before I need to get around to playing SO. I'll also want to take a look at my map from Prophecy. I do seem to recall ne confed report saying they were getting similar readings from multiple locations. I'll see if I can find it.

Quarto, if you have time to kill and hadn't seen this before, it is supposedly an early script of WC Prophecy. Has nothing to do with this argument (since it was scrapped, it wouldn't matter anyhow) and you can see they went off on a different path, but it was kinda cool to skim through. It definitely needed more refinement though. I was looking for the answer to the End of War question and stumbled on this by accident. I liked some of what they did with Blair, and it follows some of my thinking, if you saw it months ago, where I was wishing they had moved him into some kind of diplomatic position with the Kilrathi. You'll need Adobe Acrobat Reader
http://acenet.simplenet.com/wcpss/script.pdf

[This message has been edited by Shane (edited August 03, 2000).]
 
TheBLACKLION: There's not really any proof that the bugs have a hive mind. They seemed reasonably individualistic to me. I haven't read the SO fiction but if Confed were losing ships to an alien force that it didn't know anything about then I think they would cover it up to avoid a panic - not because they had been brainwashed by the bugs. Blair was captured for the same reason all those other cats & humans were captured - the bugs wanted to examine them.

Knight: I know that eventually humanity will spread beyond the Earth to other worlds. But we will go to the nearest worlds. We won't use resources to explore areas thousands of years away. As for the comms station fitting through the wormhole - if the dreadnought could fit then the comm station shouldn't have any problem.

Mad Hatter: You're right. Mother Nature still has a few cards to play.

Quarto & Shane: I think Quarto's theory makes the most sense. They would've had to have conducted extensive reconnaissance to be able to advance so quickly. Just bulling your way into unknown territory with maximum firepower usually gets you a high casualty list. Also sending cruisers & carriers to do scout work isn't likely. Ships of that size attract attention, regardless of whether they get into fights or not. More likely if the bugs did do prior reconnaissance they sent smaller craft like the SWACS or drones.
 
Quarto, Shane: I see what you're saying now. They can flash it open, but in order to make it a more stable and pemanent means of travel, they had to have gates on both sides. Still, I doubt that one fighter could scout the entire Kilrah system, find two hidden bases, etc in only 24 hours. Probably was a team of Devil Rays. I was going to reply to this last night, but the CIC went down, I think
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I couldn't load anything.
Penguin, I'd say that if we get a better source of fuel for exploration, we will go out to those far worlds, but like you said, start small
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Also, but in order for the Comm Station to get through, something had to pull it, like a tugship or something. It has no engines, as far as I can tell at least, so something had to get it there.

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Member of the LMG and hating it (Disgruntled Man)
Real heros wear SCBAs, not capes.--Me.

[This message has been edited by Knight (edited August 04, 2000).]
 
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I'm still not sure I buy the flash opening idea. It makes sens to try to do recon, but how did the bugs find a hidden base Confed and the Kilrathi never knew about? If you are scanning that hard someone is liking to notice you. I still am fond of my idea that the initail push into our space by the bugs was almost SWAT like. Ships came in, wnet on their assigned misions, looked for any trouble and neutralized it.

Do we know of any bug fighters or bombers that are jump capable? That would be about the only way I could think of scouting other systems without using something larger. Even then, they'd need to go to the little bug's room. I guess that could be built into the ship. The reason I suggest a light carrier, something on the order of the Tarawa, is that they were able to scout Confed space, but nothing escaped from them to report them. Ships went missing, but no reports of bug craft were made, if I recall correctly. A single fighter couldn't do that kind of damage and a free trader or fighter could likely outrun a corvette. Actually, the more I think of it, I think the reports said something to the effect of they thought they were dealing with a few bugs left from the Kilrah invasion, so perhaps they had been reported. I wish the SO documentation came in a handier format than their website. From a gee-whiz POV it's nice, but when you want to find something it is a pain.

[This message has been edited by Shane (edited August 04, 2000).]
 
Shane: SWAT teams operate with excellent intelligence
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The Devil Ray is certainly jump capable. Don't know about the others.
As for the smugglers' base, I'd say the scouting team had been told to seek out moving targets, and then follow them to their bases. Thus, the bugs would have been led to the base.

I took a look at that supposed WCP script. It's pretty worthless though, because it looks like it's fan-made (factual errors, and lots of 'em). Oh, and I hate what they did with Blair
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. I know he joined the Diplomatic Corps after WC3, but frankly I don't think he was quite suited for it. And then the writers went and spoilt the Kilrathi rituals. I mean, don't these people know anything about our feline allies?
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Knight: The 24 hours thing is just Shane's suggestion. In fact, they could have had a time limit of two months, or something like that. And yeah, there would have been a whole team, probably.
As for the Comm Station... well, there is that unused model of an alien drone that someone found in WCP. I would assume that they do have some sort of tugs.
 
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They work with the best intelligence they can get. Sometimes they don't have the luxury or ability to get a complete picture. Yeah 24 hours was just a number I threw out, though you do wonder about the need for food and potty breaks. Bug physiology questions. The comm station also could have boosters that it jettisons at some point. Where was that station located, anyhow?

As for the script, like I said it needed work and had some holes. I work for an advertising agency and that kind of quality for a draft doesn't surprise me. Very rarely do these things end up coming out like what they looked like in the begining.

I always felt Blair should be more involved with the post-war Kilrathi given his role, especially as it was laid out by Forstchen in the segment I quoted earlier. Sort of like the high position that Picard held with the Klingons, but not the same either. I would have liked to have seen a game where Confed in a sense picks a side in the civil war and you get to fly with Kilrathi pilots in Kilarthi ships. Another Special Ops/Secret Missions kind of deal. Of course there may be a high price for Confed for getting mixed up with Internal Cat politics. Still as with post WWII the Allies set up governemnts in the former Axis countries that they felt were more to their liking. However, the Allies victory was more decisive in a way, so this was easier to do. They were in much better shape than Confed was when the war ended.

[This message has been edited by Shane (edited August 04, 2000).]
 
You took out the comm station in the mission where the Wolfpack joined up with the Midway, and if you didn't get it taken out, you got to have another pass at it in the next mission.

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Member of the LMG and hating it (Disgruntled Man)
Real heros wear SCBAs, not capes.--Me.
 
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Death's Head said:
I believe you can see morays jump in SO.

Yeah, like the 2nd mission, or it might be the 2nd nav pt. on the first mission. You have to catch up to them, and not let them outrun you, or they jump.

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Member of the LMG and hating it (Disgruntled Man)
Real heros wear SCBAs, not capes.--Me.
 
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Quarto said:
As for the Comm Station... well, there is that unused model of an alien drone that someone found in WCP. I would assume that they do have some sort of tugs.

I don't remember it. What drone are you talking about? Yeah, I was figuring on a Triton with the 3 cargo modules taken out, just the bridge and the engine, with a tow line off the bottom/back somewhere, for a tug.

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Member of the LMG and hating it (Disgruntled Man)
Real heros wear SCBAs, not capes.--Me.
 
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Knight: I'd be very surprised if you did recognise it
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. As I said, it didn't actually appear during the game, but there was a model for it. You can see in over on Thomas Bruckner's page.

Shane: Neither the input nor the... uh... output of food would present any problems for the bugs. These are fairly trivial problems, which had been solved at the very outset of Humanity's exploration of space. Thus, we can be certain that the bugs solved these problems just as effectively.

I think that the Confederation would be afraid to take part in a Kilrathi civil war, because such an intervention could lead to a new war. Besides, it's in Confed's interest to keep the Kilrathi bickering amongst themselves.
 
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I just finished the script that shane post a link, its just me or it has a lot of B5 ideas on it?
A Kilrathi not Kilrathi born...
A prophecy that tells of the return of an old enemy...
The Mantu having working and warrior casts...
Using organic ships...

I think that i'm forgeting something else...

There was a lot of things that i didnt liked:
The Black Lance ( it was finished at the end of WC4), or Blair honouring Sivar for example...
But it had some interesting ideas.
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Well, its classified... i mean, i could tell you, but then i have to kill you...
 
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Knight: Forget the tug. With the WCP model if you bump another object, it will travel in the direction you want. Just have a cruiser bump the thing through the wormhole.

Shane: After the war Blair wanted to settle down - hence the stint as a 'Farmer Blair' on Nephele II.
Also the provision of toiletry & associated human consumables facilities on a spacecraft wouldn't be a problem. They've done it for the various American space shuttles & the Russians even managed to jam that stuff into their new Su 34 bomber which is about the same size as the F-15E.
Confed wouldn't be able to take sides in a Kilrathi civil war because a) there is/was no civil war & b) Confed is in no shape to meddle in other people's business when the war ended.

Quarto: If Confed did want to keep the Kilrathi bickering amongst themselves they'd have to take an active hand.

Death's Head: AFAIK all the fighters in WCP can jump.
 
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