What is with the Nephilim?

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Quarto: We don't know just how effective the bugs decontamination capabilities were. After all there was a time when us hairless apes thought poppies would ward off the plague - "Ring of posies. Cough, cough. We all fall down." (Something to that effect
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KillerWave: The bugs did fight Confed but why refer to an active enemy as 'non-aligned?' I think it's pretty obvious which side the humans are on.
 
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MAN you guys know a lot well as soon as I finish my stupid 10 th grade I am off totally to my favourite game off my life
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Warriors leave the dead behind while they fight dead people in their dreams!
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NOW that's scary!
 
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Methinks unworthy means that they don't consider them a threat or are a poor food/breeding source, and non-aligned means they have yet to take them over and are in the process of doing so...think....alot of bugs plant their eggs in another species to use ther bodies as hatcheries and food. Makes sense to me....

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BLACKLION
Special Operations
"Kind of a bummer have your butt kicked by a dead guy!"
 
Went away for a long weekend. Took me a while to ctach up, but still didn't see the Quarto Theory.
smile.gif
Oh well...

Disease: Confed has been having problems with Bug diseases and it's safe to say they knew about the problems with contamination. Still people are careless. Ever read The Stand? Something like that could have happened, though I think it would need a longer incubation period. I'm not arguing for or against the theory, just propping it up a bit.

Weapons upgrades: Confed also had upgrades come out in SO. It could be that the bugs began to adapt their weapon systems to the threat they were facing from confed. Seems like a quick turnaround, since I'm assuming things like the dust cannon had been in the pipe before the bugs were known. Still, it is often in times of war and conflict that you see the largest leaps in technology.

The Bug force at Kilrah: Why have ship killers in the first wave? I'm still arguing the detruction of Kilarh lead to the bugs invasion, and so I figure that if they detected the planet went up that there may be a considerable presence in that part of space that would be a threat to the bugs. Btter to be a little over prepared than under prepared.

Hibernation: Hmmm, that's an intriguing idea. I can't see a 4000 year hibernation (Okay, I can, but not a natural one) The detsrction of Kilrah could have woken up the bugs. This has problems though with the amount of time between the Star Gods and the present. However, this awakening process would explain the gap between the destruction of Kilrah and the arrival of the bugs.
 
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Shane said:
Went away for a long weekend. Took me a while to ctach up, but still didn't see the Quarto Theory.
smile.gif
Oh well...

Disease: Confed has been having problems with Bug diseases and it's safe to say they knew about the problems with contamination. Still people are careless. Ever read The Stand? Something like that could have happened, though I think it would need a longer incubation period. I'm not arguing for or against the theory, just propping it up a bit.

Weapons upgrades: Confed also had upgrades come out in SO. It could be that the bugs began to adapt their weapon systems to the threat they were facing from confed. Seems like a quick turnaround, since I'm assuming things like the dust cannon had been in the pipe before the bugs were known. Still, it is often in times of war and conflict that you see the largest leaps in technology.

The Bug force at Kilrah: Why have ship killers in the first wave? I'm still arguing the detruction of Kilarh lead to the bugs invasion, and so I figure that if they detected the planet went up that there may be a considerable presence in that part of space that would be a threat to the bugs. Btter to be a little over prepared than under prepared.

Hibernation: Hmmm, that's an intriguing idea. I can't see a 4000 year hibernation (Okay, I can, but not a natural one) The detsrction of Kilrah could have woken up the bugs. This has problems though with the amount of time between the Star Gods and the present. However, this awakening process would explain the gap between the destruction of Kilrah and the arrival of the bugs.

Sounds good...
Disease:Bugs even in the real world spread diseases...

Weapons:If they have been capturing people out on the rim and what not, would't they know our level of tech and have come up with a way to defend against it?

Bugs on Kilrah: Did not the cats in the credits refer to the Bugs as the coming of darkness? Maybe they are the reason the Cats do not co-exist with other races. Maybe they met the bugs as their first contact, and the bugs made them a food source/slaves/hatcheries?
So the cats develope away to get rid of the infestation (back to disease) so no contact with the hive mind, and begin there conquest of other races as a way to protect them selves from further incursion from the bugs.

Hibernation: Like you I tend not to agree with this, maybe a chrysalis stage as they increased there defences adapting to the Cats weapons; and after the distruction of Kilrah they started to check us out as well. As for the 4000 years, maybe time passes diferently for them then for us, a different dimension maybe?


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BLACKLION
Special Operations
"Kind of a bummer have your butt kicked by a dead guy!"

[This message has been edited by TheBLACKLION (edited August 01, 2000).]

[This message has been edited by TheBLACKLION (edited August 01, 2000).]
 
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Shane: If the bugs did return because they detected Kilrah's destruction then wouldm't they send in a reconnaissance force? I mean if something has enough bang to take out a planet then charging in guns blazing might not be the best choice.
Hibernation? For thousands of years? Please. I seriously doubt that the bugs would send a scouting party to search for races several thousand years (literally) away. They are not that bored.
No I haven't read 'The Stand.' What happened that makes it relevant?

TheBLACKLION: I don't think that non-aligned means a species yet to be conquered. In a literal meaning it would mean a race totally neutral to the whole conflict.
The reason the cats don't co-exist is because the star gods told them they were unworthy. They have to conquer other races to prove that they are worthy.

KEEP IN MIND WE HAVE NO EVIDENCE THAT THE BUGS ARE THE STAR GODS.
 
Penguin said:
Shane: If the bugs did return because they detected Kilrah's destruction then wouldm't they send in a reconnaissance force? I mean if something has enough bang to take out a planet then charging in guns blazing might not be the best choice.
Hibernation? For thousands of years? Please. I seriously doubt that the bugs would send a scouting party to search for races several thousand years (literally) away. They are not that bored.
No I haven't read 'The Stand.' What happened that makes it relevant?

KEEP IN MIND WE HAVE NO EVIDENCE THAT THE BUGS ARE THE STAR GODS.

We agree on hibernation. At least a natural one. Some kind of species wide suspended animation might be possible, but that would have to be some good equipment to last for 4000 years. I also agree with you on the issue of long distnaces, I don't think that is how they got here the first time. Why go in with a really small force that is going to get walloped? They didn't bring their whole fleet through at first, but they did bring enough firepower to get a beachhead. They failed to hold it, though.

The Stand, by Stephen King, is a great book. I recommend the unabridged version. Basically, the first third or so deals with an outbreak of a Superflu. It was being worked on in a bioweapons facility and there was an accident. One guy escaped with his wife and kid. He crashed into a samll town in Texas, almost dead, his wife and child already dead. Before he died, he infeted some people there, they infected some other folks. The government tried to cordon off the town, but people passing through had picked up the infection and passed it on to other people. The Superflu killed something like 99.9% percent of people. The governemt tried to cover it up and contain it, but it got out of control. The last two thirds of the book deal with the aftermath and a battle between forces of good and evil. My wife got part way through the book, but stopped after someone sneezing at work freaked her out. The Stand would be an analogy for the disease example someone mentioned earlier.

I haven't seen it, but LOAF was looking for a copy of the text files that comes with the Prophecy demo for me. In it, it does say the Nephilim are the Star Gods.


[This message has been edited by Shane (edited August 01, 2000).]
 
I personally think that the bugs are alot more advance race then the killrathi so the cats think that there gods or the bringers of darkness. Just like if there were a more advanced race on earth then humans we might think there gods or something because they have technolagy that we can't undersand and we think its power or something when its really just more advance technolagy.

-ICEMAN


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You're like a virgin on prome night!!
 
ICEMAN said:
I personally think that the bugs are alot more advance race then the killrathi so the cats think that there gods or the bringers of darkness. Just like if there were a more advanced race on earth then humans we might think there gods or something because they have technolagy that we can't undersand and we think its power or something when its really just more advance technolagy.

-ICEMAN



If you look back in some of the older posts that's what we've been saying. I figure it would take more time than most people have to try to catch up. Anyhow, most of our disagreement of late has been why did it take them 4000 years to return and what may have stunted their development during that interim period.
 
Shane: I don't agree with the hibernation hypothesis. Why would you hibernate for 4000yrs? Why would you travel for 4000yrs? None of that makes sense. I mean honestly suppose that scientists today somehow found definite proof that life exists on a planet thousands of light years away. That fact wouldn't really be applicable because even though we would then know that we weren't alone, that race is so far away we wouldn't have any impact on each other. We wouldn't go & try to find some way to bridge the enormous gap. We'd concentrate on exploring our more immediate environs & build up to that.
As for the small force. I said reconnaissance. Their job is not to fight but rather to gain information covertly about the circumstances of the destruction of Kilrah. Sending an invasion force is an over-reaction. What if what they encountered on the other side of the wormhole not only destroyed their fleet (which happened) but captured the wormhole & sent their planet killing weapons through to finish off the bugs. The bugs would've brought about their own destruction, which defeats the purpose of coming to Kilrah in the first place.
The Stand - sounds cool. I get the plague bit but forces of good versus evil? Sounds definitely like Stephen King.
If LOAF found evidence that the bugs are the star gods then fine. LOAF is usually above question when it comes to wC.
 
Penguin said:
KillerWave: The bugs did fight Confed but why refer to an active enemy as 'non-aligned?' I think it's pretty obvious which side the humans are on.

Non-aligned wouldnt mean that confed where not aligned with the bugs? Maybe they have an alliance or something...



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Well, its classified... i mean, i could tell you, but then i have to kill you...
 
Penguin said:
Shane: I don't agree with the hibernation hypothesis. Why would you hibernate for 4000yrs? Why would you travel for 4000yrs? None of that makes sense. I mean honestly suppose that scientists today somehow found definite proof that life exists on a planet thousands of light years away. That fact wouldn't really be applicable because even though we would then know that we weren't alone, that race is so far away we wouldn't have any impact on each other. We wouldn't go & try to find some way to bridge the enormous gap. We'd concentrate on exploring our more immediate environs & build up to that.
As for the small force. I said reconnaissance. Their job is not to fight but rather to gain information covertly about the circumstances of the destruction of Kilrah. Sending an invasion force is an over-reaction. What if what they encountered on the other side of the wormhole not only destroyed their fleet (which happened) but captured the wormhole & sent their planet killing weapons through to finish off the bugs. The bugs would've brought about their own destruction, which defeats the purpose of coming to Kilrah in the first place.
The Stand - sounds cool. I get the plague bit but forces of good versus evil? Sounds definitely like Stephen King.
If LOAF found evidence that the bugs are the star gods then fine. LOAF is usually above question when it comes to wC.

I think we're talking past each other on the hibernation issue. I agree with you. I do not think some kind of natural hibernation that lasts 4000 it is very likely. A suspended animation might be possible, but for that long is also problematic. I think you got one of my posts confused with someone elses. I did say awakening from hibernation and getting things on order could explain the amount of time that passed between the destruction of Kilrah and the Nephilim appearance. And that it could explain the lack of development of bug technology over 4000 years. However, once again, I don't think the Hibernation Theory is viable. Even in hibernation bodily activity continues, just at a slower rate. 4000 years is too long for some kind of natural biological hibernation.

Sci-Fi is full of long term suspended animation, planets become unihabitable and the inhabitants placing themsleves in suspended animation until the crisis passes or a rescuer arrives. However, even this is a stretch. The equipment would have to run without maintainence for 4000 years, more or less. Their ships and/or factories would have to be preserved as well. You'd have to have a reliable, redundant power source. It could be possible, but I'd have to think it out better. Why go in to suspended animation for starters.

As for the recon force, to hear Quarto tell it, they've been poking around for a while, we just failed to notice
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I don't really buy that one, but I'll pitch it up there. Second, to get their ships in they needed to have a gateway, which is an expensive (possibly in material, design time, building time, etc) undertaking. Why guard that with a tiny force? Also, why send a small set of ships into harm's way, when you can send a bigger force and negotiate from a position of strength? Finally they seem interested not in recon, not in negottiations, but in conquest. They sent a force they thought could obtain a beach head, likely sent other smaller groups out to recon and were preparing to bring more ship in through the gateway at Kilrah when it was closed. The Allies in WWII did not send a small force to Normandy hoping to avoid the germans on the beach while they built docks for their ships. They sent an invasion force becasue they knew the Germans would want to prevent the Allies from getting a beachead in Western Europe. Granted the Allies had more Intel than the bugs did (unless Quarto is right), but the Bugs didn't have the luxury of trying to fly across Cat and Confed space without tipping off their hand that they were there. I think the bugs sent a force large enough to hold the Kilrah system and then began shipping in reinforcements and larger recon units, looking for other places to build gateways.
 
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Shane said:
I think we're talking past each other on the hibernation issue. I agree with you. I do not think some kind of natural hibernation that lasts 4000 it is very likely. A suspended animation might be possible, but for that long is also problematic. I think you got one of my posts confused with someone elses. I did say awakening from hibernation and getting things on order could explain the amount of time that passed between the destruction of Kilrah and the Nephilim appearance. And that it could explain the lack of development of bug technology over 4000 years. However, once again, I don't think the Hibernation Theory is viable. Even in hibernation bodily activity continues, just at a slower rate. 4000 years is too long for some kind of natural biological hibernation.

Sci-Fi is full of long term suspended animation, planets become unihabitable and the inhabitants placing themsleves in suspended animation until the crisis passes or a rescuer arrives. However, even this is a stretch. The equipment would have to run without maintainence for 4000 years, more or less. Their ships and/or factories would have to be preserved as well. You'd have to have a reliable, redundant power source. It could be possible, but I'd have to think it out better. Why go in to suspended animation for starters.

As for the recon force, to hear Quarto tell it, they've been poking around for a while, we just failed to notice
smile.gif
I don't really buy that one, but I'll pitch it up there. Second, to get their ships in they needed to have a gateway, which is an expensive (possibly in material, design time, building time, etc) undertaking. Why guard that with a tiny force? Also, why send a small set of ships into harm's way, when you can send a bigger force and negotiate from a position of strength? Finally they seem interested not in recon, not in negottiations, but in conquest. They sent a force they thought could obtain a beach head, likely sent other smaller groups out to recon and were preparing to bring more ship in through the gateway at Kilrah when it was closed. The Allies in WWII did not send a small force to Normandy hoping to avoid the germans on the beach while they built docks for their ships. They sent an invasion force becasue they knew the Germans would want to prevent the Allies from getting a beachead in Western Europe. Granted the Allies had more Intel than the bugs did (unless Quarto is right), but the Bugs didn't have the luxury of trying to fly across Cat and Confed space without tipping off their hand that they were there. I think the bugs sent a force large enough to hold the Kilrah system and then began shipping in reinforcements and larger recon units, looking for other places to build gateways.

Okay lets skip the hibernation therory....maybe its a time space thing....the bugs exist in a seperate time space than Us and the Cats do. That would explain the time difference. As for them being the Star Gods...its possible if they were the one to drive the Kilrathi in to the frenzy of destruction of other races. The once burned therory seems tob e the drive and we all know historical references get distorted with time....so maybe the bugs are what started the whole thing. I still think they are grooming us as a viable food source or hatchery. The new Bugs take on some of the characteistics of the host kinda thing. They learn from combining with the food/nesting source.


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BLACKLION
Special Operations
"Kind of a bummer have your butt kicked by a dead guy!"
 
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Penguin said:
Shane: I don't agree with the hibernation hypothesis. Why would you hibernate for 4000yrs? Why would you travel for 4000yrs? None of that makes sense. I mean honestly suppose that scientists today somehow found definite proof that life exists on a planet thousands of light years away. That fact wouldn't really be applicable because even though we would then know that we weren't alone, that race is so far away we wouldn't have any impact on each other. We wouldn't go & try to find some way to bridge the enormous gap. We'd concentrate on exploring our more immediate environs & build up to that.

You think along the lines that most of those people in Washington that don't want space travel. We ARE concentrating on exploring and using our immediate environs, but think about it, eventually, we're going to run out. The population is growing so fast, that enough people are dying per day now, to warrant the expansion of our civilation to another habital world. I mean, we can use earth, use earth, and use more earth, but it won't last forever. And never think that it will. That's just like thinking the sun will last forever. Your grandkids grandkids grandkids may not see it, but it will run out. There's only so much we can do with Earth, and eventually, which I doubt (even at only 16) that I'll see it) we'll find another planet and occupy it, then another, then another, etc. But if we don't get our act together and do it soon (in the next 10-20 years, we may never get it done.), we're all pretty much screwed. I don't want to be Mr. Negative, but the damage is done, possibly irreversible. But, we can always hope for some new form of energy, powerful, unending, clean, etc. That would help things a lot. I'm not an enviro freak, or a tree-hugger, but I want to see humanity survive and kick the shit out of a race of alien felines around the year 2600
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Member of the LMG and hating it (Disgruntled Man)
Real heros wear SCBAs, not capes.--Me.
 
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I'm glad you've decided to drop the hibernation theory Shane, because I wouldn't want to laugh at you
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I fail to see why we would notice the Bugs poking about. Remember, they managed to infiltrate Vega and Sol sectors (in SO) without Confed even noticing. Considering the vast size of their SO fleet, this is pretty amazing.

At any rate, the evidence is overwhelming in the favour of my theory. Look at how quickly the Bugs moved in for the kill. They must have known a lot about the Kilrah System. How else could they found the Kilrah 7.4 outpost, as well as the Sivarist Monastery in the Kilrah belt (note that the belt would have wreaked havoc with their sensors)?
 
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Well until EA/Origin continues the game we will only be able to speculate about our therories concerning the Bugs. I still think they are an adaptive race that use the captured materials meaning us and the Cats to advance themselves. We are a new food source and possible breeding ground.

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BLACKLION
Special Operations
"Kind of a bummer have your butt kicked by a dead guy!"
 
Let me say this one more time. HIBERNATION WAS NOT MY THEORY.
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I thought it had a few good points, but too many negatives.

As for overpopulation, in Western Europe, Japan and to some extent the US population rates are dropping. If other parts of the world are able to devlop along similar lines, this could become a world-wide trend. Sub-saharan Africa also has had a major drop in population growth from just a few decades ago. Unfortunatlet that is not due to a western style of development but to the AIDS epidemic.

I agree though that we need to start being more aggressive in the way we explore space. I hoping the International Space Station will help move that along, but it is still another baby step. They need to work on some of the Mars expeditions I've been reading and hearing about.

Back to WC...

Quarto. I say the Bugs can't get through without a gateway. Since the gateway didn't appear until the first big ship came through, they had no recent recon. they were working off data from their last visit. We've been over this before, and I don't think we are ever going to agree. I may change my opinion when I play SO, though. As for the force that appears in SO, I believe it proves my point, if I read the info at the site correctly. Ships did go missing, there were signs that there was trouble afoot, but Confed was trying to cover it up. There isn't any evidence that similar things were going on in Kilarthi space before hand.
 
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Quarto said:
At any rate, the evidence is overwhelming in the favour of my theory. Look at how quickly the Bugs moved in for the kill. They must have known a lot about the Kilrah System. How else could they found the Kilrah 7.4 outpost, as well as the Sivarist Monastery in the Kilrah belt (note that the belt would have wreaked havoc with their sensors)?

I'd say it's just the opposite. I mean, no gate, no transmissions home. Oh, and speaking of transmissions, how in the world did they get those Comm-Relay stations we take out in there? Could they build them that fast, or do they fold up nice and compact like a Dreadnaught and slip through the gate? At anyrate, without the gate, having recon ships there would be useless. It would take far to long to get tranmissions clear across the universe. My guess is is that they brought the ship killer in, with a cruiser and a carrier right behind it, plus some transports, and maybe a destroyer. Each ship went to one Kilrah planet in the system, on the way there, they found the Sivarist outpost, because of scout ships following a ship there, or something, same idea with the base on 7.4, they had scouts find a shuttle or fighter and follow it, with the attack force just out of sensor range, and when they found the base, boom. Kitty litter. That's all I have time for. I have to go mow yard now
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Member of the LMG and hating it (Disgruntled Man)
Real heros wear SCBAs, not capes.--Me.
 
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Knight said:
I'd say it's just the opposite. I mean, no gate, no transmissions home. Oh, and speaking of transmissions, how in the world did they get those Comm-Relay stations we take out in there? Could they build them that fast, or do they fold up nice and compact like a Dreadnaught and slip through the gate? At anyrate, without the gate, having recon ships there would be useless. It would take far to long to get tranmissions clear across the universe. My guess is is that they brought the ship killer in, with a cruiser and a carrier right behind it, plus some transports, and maybe a destroyer. Each ship went to one Kilrah planet in the system, on the way there, they found the Sivarist outpost, because of scout ships following a ship there, or something, same idea with the base on 7.4, they had scouts find a shuttle or fighter and follow it, with the attack force just out of sensor range, and when they found the base, boom. Kitty litter. That's all I have time for. I have to go mow yard now
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Well what about a hive mind, a form of advanced telepathy, then they could communicate across vast distances without comm-relays or they build organic ones right on the spot. They send a sub-Queen through the gate to manage the drones and recon ships, a few more for defence and attack...the Queen to hatch more drones, and we are the food/resource material along with the Kilrathi....They make a small hive here to work from using privateers and other people who travel the outer rims, scouting, and such as recon data and resource material. We know the ships are living beings themselves, just not intelligent, and so why can't they be using us as both food and resource material. Kinda like the desert wasp uses the tarantuala(sp)for a hatchery and food source. They then build everything they need out of genetic material here, advancing as they go....Make sense?

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BLACKLION
Special Operations
"Kind of a bummer have your butt kicked by a dead guy!"

[This message has been edited by TheBLACKLION (edited August 02, 2000).]
 
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