ChrisReid
Super Soaker Collector / Administrator
You're not anonymous here, and wedging yourself into something that didn't concern you and was already resolved only makes things worse.
New Saga Rapier!
- Thread starter Tolwyn
- Start date
You're not anonymous here, and wedging yourself into something that didn't concern you and was already resolved only makes things worse.
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
Yeah - someone who's actually interested in being a fan would be contributing to the general discussion, not show up only to harass strained discussions. That's what trolls do.
Tolwyn
Vice Admiral
We are working on it. Teach section will undergo an upgrade pretty soon.
Stone48420
Spaceman
Can't wait to see some more ships from you guys any hints at anything coming up. (Wraith,gladius, confederation class dreadnaught 
) Just can't wait to use some of these ship in some multiplayer battles.(eventually)
) Just can't wait to use some of these ship in some multiplayer battles.(eventually)Wow...you seem to have a lot of anger over this issue....
How do you justify referring to a forum member as an idiot due to the expression of an opinion that doesn't align with your own?
I would have expected someone who frequents these forums as much as yourself to behave in a more civilized fashion.
It would seem that perhaps you should apologize to the appropriate people and allow everyone here to return to civilized WC discussion.
Thanks.
LeHah
212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
I disagree, especially with your angry words and bad attitude when I left your project, years ago.
Dundradal
Frog Blast the Vent Core!
Wow...you seem to have a lot of anger over this issue....
How do you justify referring to a forum member as an idiot due to the expression of an opinion that doesn't align with your own?
I would have expected someone who frequents these forums as much as yourself to behave in a more civilized fashion.
It would seem that perhaps you should apologize to the appropriate people and allow everyone here to return to civilized WC discussion.
Thanks.
I don't think LOAF needs to apologize to anyone. People that have a history of this kind of action are up to it again in a familiar place. This is not the first time this has happened here and I can see why LOAF gets so mad about it. This shit gets old after *years* of it.
Just like this being your 5th post in two years and it's an attack on the community leader. Take some time to think about it.
Dyret
Super Carrot!
Wow...you seem to have a lot of anger over this issue....
How do you justify referring to a forum member as an idiot due to the expression of an opinion that doesn't align with your own?
I would have expected someone who frequents these forums as much as yourself to behave in a more civilized fashion.
It would seem that perhaps you should apologize to the appropriate people and allow everyone here to return to civilized WC discussion.
Thanks.
Hey, I have an idea how to solve this extreme disruption of normal WC fan life: You go away!
LeHah
212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
If you have to ask, then you aren't in the need to know.
Respect is earned, not given freely. You've done nothing to earn anyone's respect here, simply by having a big mouth and an opinion.
ChrisReid
Super Soaker Collector / Administrator
As I explained in a reply to one of your previous posts, LOAF justifies it with a very thorough explanation in the very same post. The problem is not that someone has a different opinion.
I would have expected someone who frequents these forums as much as yourself to behave in a more civilized fashion.
It would seem that perhaps you should apologize to the appropriate people and allow everyone here to return to civilized WC discussion.
Thanks.
Perhaps you should apologize for attempting to covertly fan the flames of a concluded exchange that you didn't understand.
Spertallica
Rear Admiral
http://www.violentacres.com/archives/59/two-phrases-that-destroyed-american-culture
That article about sums up my feelings on "earning respect" right there. So he doesn't like the SWC Rapier. Big deal.
ChrisReid
Super Soaker Collector / Administrator
That's not the deal at all though. Nobody cares whether or not he likes the SWC Rapier. That wasn't the point. Did nobody even read the post? I'm going to get pretty mad if people keep jumping in here without understanding what's going on.
He never mentioned the SWC rapier. His wonderful contribution to the thread was:
The fact that he posted it without logging in shows that he knew exactly what kind of response it would provoke too. He's just a troll.
Stone48420
Spaceman
Man thats a nice ship.
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
I do. I feel very strongly that our community needs to be better than this. I published an editorial recently abouut it - we need our criticism to be intelligent, not simply pleasurable. What don't you like about the SWC Rapier? Do you understand X, Y and Z thing about why it is so important that it showed up in Arena? 'It made me throw up' is a stupid internet-ism, an easy, *stupid* line that wrongly purports to replace actual discussion (beyond that it's an absolutely unneeded and insulting jab).
I know those who replied more quickly have already said it, but I think I deserve that simple rush too: I justified it with the paragraph-long justification which immediately followed my having called him an idiot. It has absolutely nothing to do with my opinion on his opinion about the ship - it has to do with my understanding of how everything *needs* to w ork.
I don't even understand this jab. My longevity should make me disagree with you? I've been with a Wing Commander community since 1993, I've seen every single discussion that's possible... Kavok isn't some poor indefensible kid, he understands (and has apologized, if half-facedly, for) what he did. It seems amazing that in light of all that you still find the need to harass *me*. You don't have a leg to stand on here.
Hard as it is to say, LeHah is right about respect. Go discuss what your favorite ship is, go write some fanfic, go tooth and nail a movie continuity argument - until you've done those things, we don't know you, comments like the above hold no power.
Which brings us to:
Your article is horrible and self-contradictory.
How can you mix the standard internet 'I stood up to a bad customer, celebrate me' post and then follow it with a kind reminder that everyone should respect everyone else? How does someone who steps into someone else's conversation to call a woman a "bitch" lead into a speech about how we need to "give people respect because they are humans with lives and feelings just as important as our own"> That's *absolutely* assinine.
Also, the simple act of posting it contradicts the (supposed) message. Taking one side in an argument isn't the same thing as being respectful - you don't get to take pot-shots under the guise of being enlightened. The evolved prespective you would want (ideally) would mean you wouldn't post in such an argument at all... but at the very *worst* it would be to say that *everyone* here deserves your respect regardless of opinion - whether it's my opinion that Kavok is being an idiot or Shellos' opinion he really, really needs to break years of silence to bitch about a discussion he wasn't part of.
Here's the truth of the article and of your post: you are not better than the group. Your blogger isn't better than "American Culture" because they stood up to a woman who had trouble ordering bagels and then spouted some nonsensical philosophy to calm themself down. You are not better than everyone else posting here for your ability to copy and paste a link that you clearly didn't even think about. The common denominator here is that both people took advantage of a situation because they though it would make them *seem* better than everyone else... and that's just nasty - and self defeating.
(I mean, come on - the original article may even be kidding on the whole. How can you say everyone needs to respect everyone for being human and then blame the problem on "punk kids with bad attitudes and black fingernail polish"? Clever.)
--
That aside, even the lets-all-just-get-along-except-when-I-don't-want-to part of the article falls flat. The answer to a problem (everyone demanding respect) *isn't* to decide that the concept itself doesn't exist. Imagine: I have cancer - no problem, it doesn't exist! There are *certainly* people who deserve respect for their accomplishments - you can find a whole host of them right here in this thread yelling at Shellos.
It's very, very easy to say that LeHah deserves respect for having done all sorts of things for the community while Shellos doesn't because he has absolutey no history whatsoever. It's not some distant concept for praising people we like - it's quantifiable. It's not partisan. I'm terrible to people sometimes, and I deserve a heck of a lot of respect for things I've done here. Tolwyn is as passive aggressive as they get, but we absolutely have to agree that he deserves respect for releasing the Saga prologue.
Again I will reiterate that I have nothing to do with WC Saga or any other group, faction, fan project and so forth.
I understand where your stand LOAF. I understand that you wish WC to grow via logical, fact driven debate. I would also like to say that Wing Commander is an art form. Art is open to interpretation and thus many differing opinions are bound to exist. To say that opinion X is “stupid” and the person who expressed such opinion is an “idiot” does nothing other than stifle future debate about WC.
WC will not grow and evolve beyond what it is now if fans aren’t allowed to freely express their opinions. The expression of such opinions should be regardless of whether they are sustained by logical debate or whether they are accepted by persons who hold themselves as ‘expects’ in WC.
Perhaps we should return now to a civilized, open discussion regarding WC, in this case, SAGA’s new Rapier (Quite beautiful might I add)
Thanks.
I understand where your stand LOAF. I understand that you wish WC to grow via logical, fact driven debate. I would also like to say that Wing Commander is an art form. Art is open to interpretation and thus many differing opinions are bound to exist. To say that opinion X is “stupid” and the person who expressed such opinion is an “idiot” does nothing other than stifle future debate about WC.
WC will not grow and evolve beyond what it is now if fans aren’t allowed to freely express their opinions. The expression of such opinions should be regardless of whether they are sustained by logical debate or whether they are accepted by persons who hold themselves as ‘expects’ in WC.
Perhaps we should return now to a civilized, open discussion regarding WC, in this case, SAGA’s new Rapier (Quite beautiful might I add)
Thanks.
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
No one is accusing you of being a member of the Saga team.
To note, though opinions *can* be stupid - "I think" isn't a get out of jail free card. I think whales can fly, I think people with brown hair are stupid, I think cats are purple - those are all stupid and fundamentally *bad* opinions.
... although the problem here is more that Kavok's opinion was *phrased* in a stupid manner. There's an important world of difference between 'I like this interpretation much better than the Super Wing Commander/Arena Rapier' and "I have a stomach-heaving adverse reaction to the awful humpbacked Super Wing Commander / Arena version". The latter isn't criticism, it's grandstanding - shamelessly playing to a lowest common denominator that doesn't exist here. It's not even the lack of *reasoning* offered as much as it is the sad attempt at showmanship.
Well, here's another rub - why is *his* unexplained 'opinion' that the Rapier is 'stomach turning' something that needs to be defended with sword and cross... but my opinion - reasoned and explained in private and public - that he's being an idiot *isn't*? You aren't reasoning philosophically here, you're attacking perceived authority.
As for being an expert, I'm certainly not making that claim. I think my past accomplishments speak for themselves and it's up to you to take from them respect or offense or anything in between from them. I won't *hold you* to anything.
Houkiboshi
Rear Admiral
I usually don't like to get into this sort of topic, but this time I think it hits an important issue...
Kavok has an opinion about the "new" ship, that's ok... But the way he said it was the worst possible way to do it... It wasn't even on the subject; it wasn't related to anything else in this thread... Up until that moment, it was just fine
Now, I don’t always agree with LOAF on the way he addresses some subjects here, but this time I have to agree with him, such an “attack” on the first official WC game in so many years was really uncalled for...
And this has happened over and over since Arena was announced
I understand some people don't like some of the new things on Arena... I'm not a big fan of the new Midway, but it's no that bad after all... The thing is, we should be grateful for this new game, and if we don't like something, we should say it on a proper way, because this is something we have been waiting for years
Come on guys, even Kavok apologised...
Why don’t we get back to the topic?... This rapier looks amazing... It makes me remember the one from the Flight Ops Wallpaper
Kavok has an opinion about the "new" ship, that's ok... But the way he said it was the worst possible way to do it... It wasn't even on the subject; it wasn't related to anything else in this thread... Up until that moment, it was just fine
Now, I don’t always agree with LOAF on the way he addresses some subjects here, but this time I have to agree with him, such an “attack” on the first official WC game in so many years was really uncalled for...
And this has happened over and over since Arena was announced
I understand some people don't like some of the new things on Arena... I'm not a big fan of the new Midway, but it's no that bad after all... The thing is, we should be grateful for this new game, and if we don't like something, we should say it on a proper way, because this is something we have been waiting for years
Come on guys, even Kavok apologised...
Why don’t we get back to the topic?... This rapier looks amazing... It makes me remember the one from the Flight Ops Wallpaper
ChrisReid
Super Soaker Collector / Administrator
Why don’t we get back to the topic?... This rapier looks amazing... It makes me remember the one from the Flight Ops Wallpaper
Yup, it's the same model painted differently. Klavs was the person who made the Flight Ops piece.