Cats vrs bugs...

[Earthworm]

In less than a heartbeat...A Plunkett can rip the fur of a Kat Dreadnought in less than ten seconds.

Don't you think you're exagurating a bit?

The K Dreadnoght has better shields, strong enough armor, a lot of guns, and more fighters.

If the tech level had been closer to WCIII/IV, Prophecy would have been a lot more challenging.

Nope, like I said above, the tech available at the time doesn't have much to do with it. It's the AI that is the problem.

 

[snuzzleducky]

one thing i do when i make cap-ships is change the ai settings in the ship .iff
under the section near the beginning, the FORM "MNVR" chunk called "GUNS" change the "rolloutavoid" and "pitchavoid" or whatever else appears there to "attack" and "chaseattack"
that way instead of turning away whenever you hit it with guns, it just gets mad

 

[DeltaKiller]

EW: "Uh, that's actually what I did. And belive me, you can play Prophecy all you want, but it won't be as tough as WC4 on Nightmare."

I agree, I've played through WC4 on Nightmare level. Since ther is no way of altering the WCP AI.

EW: "But that is irelevant. When you compare the Arrow to the Rapier of course it'll win, but compare a Kilrathi ship from the Rapiers time to it, how fast can you kill that ship, and than see how fast you can kill the bugs in Prophecy."

Ok, but what I am saying is that the Kilrathi equivilant will still not compare to the fighters that the Bugs fly. Granted that the Cats are not allowed to make better ships, but if allowed to, I think they could be a really worthy opponent against them.

It's all perspective. I think that the Cats put up one hell of a fight, and that when the bugs came, we were a little more ready.

In that sence, then I can see that the cats were harder to fight than the bugs.

 

[Earthworm]

It's all perspective. I think that the Cats put up one hell of a fight, and that when the bugs came, we were a little more ready.

Ay, they sure have. And if there were no Kilrathi, than by the time Nephilim came we would be all dead.

 

[Quarto]

Same here, the Rapiers guns were to weak for me.

Too weak? Two lasers and a pair of neutrons too weak? Why, in my days, we were happy if they even gave us a gun!

Oh, and as far as we know, the Kilrathi got plastered within moments

. Their fleet was wasted by the Plasma Weapon, and their fighters were so useless that the Nephilem were able to pluck their pilots out of their seats.

Finally, Confed was not always ahead of the Kilrathi in fighter design. Look at the WC1 ships. I don't know about you, but I'd fly the Gratha against Confed any day

. And the only reason we all think the Dralthi sucks is because we couldn't handle what was its biggest advantage - manoeuvrability. That thing could pitch at 140 dps. The best a Hornet can manage is 90 dps. In fact, the Dralthi - mk. 1, mind you - could outmanoeuvre anything short of a Vampire.
A Salthi, incidentally, has a roll rate of 220 dps (don't bother to look in the manual - these are in-game stats I'm talking about).

Unfortunately, while celebrating their successful WC1-era designs, the Kilrathi engineers got a little too drunk on Suk'har Mayya. They've never done a good job since

.

Anyway, don't forget that compared to the earlier games, WCP has a huge targeting reticle - hitting the enemy had never been easier. You also don't have a proper cockpit (do you even remember flying without drop-away cockpits?

), and finally, you never fly with just one wingman. All those things add up. In the end, I would say that if you were somehow to convert WCP fighters, capships, and technology into the WC3 engine... you'd die before you took off. And how about the WC4 engine? Care to have twenty missiles flying after you in WC4?

 

[Earthworm]

Too weak? Two lasers and a pair of neutrons too weak? Why, in my days, we were happy if they even gave us a gun!

Yup, too weak. The lasers just didn't cut it. The Raptor had those neutrons and mass drivers which happen to be some of my favorite guns.

Oh, and as far as we know, the Kilrathi got plastered within moments

. Their fleet was wasted by the Plasma Weapon, and their fighters were so useless that the Nephilem were able to pluck their pilots out of their seats.

And what'd you expect from an obsolete fleet like that?

Besides, we don't even know how large that Kilrathi fleet was.

Finally, Confed was not always ahead of the Kilrathi in fighter design. Look at the WC1 ships. I don't know about you, but I'd fly the Gratha against Confed any day

.

Tje Gratha sucks!!! Seriously, I nver found the Gratha to be much of a problem, Confed could kick the crap out of it anytime. Oh, and what's that crap about the Raptor having only 34% success rate against a Jalthi? That's bull.

And the only reason we all think the Dralthi sucks is because we couldn't handle what was its biggest advantage - manoeuvrability.

I think it's because of the very poor shields and armor....

The manuverebility never bothered me. And as we learned in FF, the Dralthi has some problems with shielding.

That thing could pitch at 140 dps. The best a Hornet can manage is 90 dps. In fact, the Dralthi - mk. 1, mind you - could outmanoeuvre anything short of a Vampire.
A Salthi, incidentally, has a roll rate of 220 dps (don't bother to look in the manual - these are in-game stats I'm talking about).

And since when are the Y/P/R stats everything that determines how good a fighter is?

I've seen those stats using WCnav, and I know that some of them are extremly good. But I'd rather have the Scimitar with it's not so good speed or agility over a Dralthi with piss poor shielding and armor.

Unfortunately, while celebrating their successful WC1-era designs, the Kilrathi engineers got a little too drunk on Suk'har Mayya. They've never done a good job since

.

Maybe you're the one who's drunk Q?

The Kilrathi almost never done a good job, including WC1.

Anyway, don't forget that compared to the earlier games, WCP has a huge targeting reticle - hitting the enemy had never been easier.

Hm, mind you, WC1 with it's huge projectiles and wide ships made it easier for me.

You also don't have a proper cockpit (do you even remember flying without drop-away cockpits?

),

And what does that have anything do with with anything?

and finally, you never fly with just one wingman.

Right, and you shouldn't fly without wingman. That'll get you killed quickly.

All those things add up.

Add up to what? I've lost you on your second point.

In the end, I would say that if you were somehow to convert WCP fighters, capships, and technology into the WC3 engine... you'd die before you took off. And how about the WC4 engine? Care to have twenty missiles flying after you in WC4?

Uh, I think you miss my point. Which is that Prophecy isn't any easier because of all the new technology since the bugs have the same tech as we do. Wich is what happened in the games in which we fought the cats. Now, if I played those games in the WC3 engine, or the WC4 one, it would be just as easy if the AI stayed the same.

 

[Quarto]

Yup, too weak. The lasers just didn't cut it. The Raptor had those neutrons and mass drivers which happen to be some of my favorite guns.

I was joking, EW.

I don't think that those four guns together were too weak, but they certainly were a bad combination. I'd much rather go with a pair of Mass Drivers any day. Neutrons have too little range, and Lasers don't do enough.

And what'd you expect from an obsolete fleet like that? Besides, we don't even know how large that Kilrathi fleet was.

No, we don't. So what made you think that we'd be dead meat without them?

Tje Gratha sucks!!! Seriously, I nver found the Gratha to be much of a problem, Confed could kick the crap out of it anytime. Oh, and what's that crap about the Raptor having only 34% success rate against a Jalthi? That's bull.

Earthworm, we're not talking about what happens in the game, we're talking stats. Now, take a good, hard look at the Raptor's stats, and compare them with the Gratha's. Look especially well at its armour and shields, and note that its roll rate is actually 14 (not 6).
Now then. If you were to fight with someone as good (or as bad

) as yourself, which would you go for? And what about the Jalthi, with its four Lasers and a pair of Neutrons to boot? If you met one with a real pilot, one who wouldn't let you just waltz in and gun down his rear armour, what would be your survival rate?

I think it's because of the very poor shields and armor.... The manuverebility never bothered me. And as we learned in FF, the Dralthi has some problems with shielding.

No, no, you misunderstand. I'm not talking about fighting it, I'm talking about using it. Personally, I was never able to use it properly, because it was just too damned responsive. As for the shielding problems, in FF it says that they were repaired by the time Mk. 2 appeared.
Speaking of that, how'd you like to fly against the Hhriss? Inferior indeed. Wouldst thou really want to go up against this?

Hhriss
Shield Recharge Time: 4
Max Velocity: 330 KPS
Cruise Velocity: 200 KPS
Acceleration Rate: 2
Y/P/R: 8/8/16
Shields (Fore/Aft): 15/18
Armour (Fore/Aft/Flanks): 16/17/15
Armament: 2 x Mass Driver, 2 x Neutron Gun, 2 x Javelin HS
Length: 28m
Mass: 17.5 tonnes

And since when are the Y/P/R stats everything that determines how good a fighter is? I've seen those stats using WCnav, and I know that some of them are extremly good. But I'd rather have the Scimitar with it's not so good speed or agility over a Dralthi with piss poor shielding and armor.

Bah, I wasn't saying that manoeuvrability stats the fighter make

. But just how well would you do, flying a Hornet against a Salthi (again, with a real pilot)? Why, it could fly circles around you. You'd never even hit it.
Oh, and WCNav doesn't give you stats

.

Hm, mind you, WC1 with it's huge projectiles and wide ships made it easier for me.

That's unusual

. Because what those ships lost by being so wide, they gained by being so flat.

And what does that have anything do with with anything?

Visibility, of course. WCP had a hell of a lot more visibility than WC 1 did, where half your screen was the cockpit.

Right, and you shouldn't fly without wingman. That'll get you killed quickly.

Wha? What I was referring to was the fact that in WCP, you hardly ever fly with less than two wingman. So, naturally the earlier WCs were a lot harder.

Add up to what? I've lost you on your second point.

Then pay attention next time

. All I'm saying is that the WCP game engine made things quite a bit easier, as did the overall mission design.

Uh, I think you miss my point. Which is that Prophecy isn't any easier because of all the new technology since the bugs have the same tech as we do. Wich is what happened in the games in which we fought the cats. Now, if I played those games in the WC3 engine, or the WC4 one, it would be just as easy if the AI stayed the same.

No, you miss my point. I didn't say that WC3 would be easier if we had WCP technology. I said that if we ported WCP stuff into the WC3 engine, ships, tech, and all, you'd find it was a lot harder - because of the game engine itself.

 

[Anagram]

But those [skippers] aren't that tough, I find the capship missiles in Prophecy and SO tougher. And the Skippers appear only in 3 or 4 missions.

What??! You get three, maybe four chances at a Skipper. You can't lock with missiles, nor can you order a Wingman after it. You can bloody lock on to the Prophecy and SO missiles, and destroy them with IRs.

and Shok'Lars (sp?) in 2, 3, Armada.

Not in WC2 or 3.

Yes in 2, as 'Unidentified', and in 3, as a different name.

And THEY (not the bugs) survive in the WC P missions, don't they...

Not bloody likely. In the mission where you have to rescue the Dralthis with Hawk, they'll die quickly if you don't do anything.

I'll have to test that again...

Ah, the Nephilim fire missiles at you too. And often, especially the capships.

The Nephs don't fire as many missiles as they should... And the Capships don't fire missiles at you if you don't fly in front of anything labeled 'Missile Turret'.

But I still think that the Cats were much better. Even if the Bugs can detect cloaks.

------------------
Maestro: "Lighten up Spyder! We're not gonna die! We're gonna WIN!!"

Zero: "Hey, Maestro... Uhh... If you DIE, can we pick through your stuff before we head back to Sol?"

Maestro: "You can burn in Hell."

 

[DeltaKiller]

Gotta hand it to the bugs, those missile launchers on the Cap-ships were annoying. Plus, this is the first game where Cap-ships have missile capability. In the novels, we read about it all the time in the Kilrathi war, but in the games we never see it.

Anyway, I still say that if we never fought the kitties, the bugs would have squished us.

-=DeltaKiller=-

 

[Quarto]

Yes in 2, as 'Unidentified', and in 3, as a different name.

No, Anagram. That was an altogether different fighter, called the Strakha. The only thing the Strakha had in common with the Shok'lar was that they both carried cloaks. And the Shok'lar most definitely only appeared in Armada.

 

[Hero]

And the Shok'lar most definitely only appeared in Armada.

Aren't we forgetting something there Q? They also appeared in RF...

 

[Earthworm]

I was joking, EW.

I don't think that those four guns together were too weak, but they certainly were a bad combination. I'd much rather go with a pair of Mass Drivers any day. Neutrons have too little range, and Lasers don't do enough.

That's good then. Now I know that you're smart.

No, we don't. So what made you think that we'd be dead meat without them?

Wha?

Earthworm, we're not talking about what happens in the game, we're talking stats. Now, take a good, hard look at the Raptor's stats, and compare them with the Gratha's. Look especially well at its armour and shields, and note that its roll rate is actually 14 (not 6).

But the Raptor has better guns, and IIRC missiles.

Now then. If you were to fight with someone as good (or as bad

) as yourself, which would you go for?

A ship with strong armor and even stronger guns?

And what about the Jalthi, with its four Lasers and a pair of Neutrons to boot? If you met one with a real pilot, one who wouldn't let you just waltz in and gun down his rear armour, what would be your survival rate?

Seing how the Jalthi manuvers like a pig, I'd say it would be prety easy to get on it's tail.

No, no, you misunderstand. I'm not talking about fighting it, I'm talking about using it. Personally, I was never able to use it properly, because it was just too damned responsive.

I know what you mant.

And I never had trouble contoling it, I actualy like responsive fighters.

Speaking of that, how'd you like to fly against the Hhriss? Inferior indeed. Wouldst thou really want to go up against this?

The Hhriss isn't as good as everyone makes it out to be though. A Rapier or a Raptop could go against it any time.

Hhriss
Shield Recharge Time: 4
Max Velocity: 330 KPS
Cruise Velocity: 200 KPS
Acceleration Rate: 2
Y/P/R: 8/8/16
Shields (Fore/Aft): 15/18
Armour (Fore/Aft/Flanks): 16/17/15
Armament: 2 x Mass Driver, 2 x Neutron Gun, 2 x Javelin HS
Length: 28m
Mass: 17.5 tonnes

Yup, it's slow with piss poor missiles and a manuverebility that's comparable to the Rapier.

Bah, I wasn't saying that manoeuvrability stats the fighter make

. But just how well would you do, flying a Hornet against a Salthi (again, with a real pilot)? Why, it could fly circles around you. You'd never even hit it.

Ah, but then I could use some kick stop manuveres, reversing the thrust, shit like that….

Oh, and WCNav doesn't give you stats

.

Yeah, I meant WC1view.

Hm, mind you, WC1 with it's huge projectiles and wide ships made it easier for me.

That's unusual

. Because what those ships lost by being so wide, they gained by being so flat.

I guess you just have to know where to shot.

Visibility, of course. WCP had a hell of a lot more visibility than WC 1 did, where half your screen was the cockpit.

Unless you have KS. <EG>

Wha? What I was referring to was the fact that in WCP, you hardly ever fly with less than two wingman. So, naturally the earlier WCs were a lot harder.

Not if your wingman in Prophecy don't do jack.

No, you miss my point. I didn't say that WC3 would be easier if we had WCP technology. I said that if we ported WCP stuff into the WC3 engine, ships, tech, and all, you'd find it was a lot harder - because of the game engine itself.

And the better AI wouldn't matter? Even if I could be killed by one missile in WC4, with the Prophecy AI the bugs wouldn't either shot them that much at me since I outmanuver them, or I'd drop the decoys witch I have an exccess of on the Prophecy ships.

 

[Earthworm]

What??! You get three, maybe four chances at a Skipper. You can't lock with missiles, nor can you order a Wingman after it.

That doesn't change the fact that they move slowly and are very easy to destroy when you see them.

You can bloody lock on to the Prophecy and SO missiles, and destroy them with IRs.

Who would was missiles on those?

Besides, they travel faster, much faster than the Skippers, and travel in groups of 4-6 and sometimes even more.

Yes in 2, as 'Unidentified', and in 3, as a different name.

Uh, no. You're wrong. There are no unidentified ships in WC2 except the Strakhas, and certainly none in WC3.

The Nephs don't fire as many missiles as they should... And the Capships don't fire missiles at you if you don't fly in front of anything labeled 'Missile Turret'.

Do you play at nightmare? Missiles really start flying then.

 

[Earthworm]

Aren't we forgetting something there Q? They also appeared in RF...

Those fighters look like Shok'lars, but according to the RF plot they're Salthis, which they also resemble. Oh, and those fighters also appeared in the end of Priv, not just RF.

 

[Hero]

Well, I haven't played Priv or RF for SOOOOOOO long, that I berely remember the plot, so I'll take your word on it

Maybe I'll get myself that brand new CD version everyone's talking about, after all, floopy's getting kinda old our days, ain't it? Nah, I'm just dreaming it

 

[Quarto]

It's an interesting thing about the Shok'lar and the Salthi, Hero. You see, the model of the Shok'lar that appears in Armada was the one used in Super Wing Commander (1) on the Mac. Incidentally, they also used the Gladius model (as the Raptor, methinks, but I can't remember too well), and of course the two Armada carriers. In fact, the Lexington got the rare honour of pretending to be the TCS Tiger's Claw.
I'm not actually sure which came first - Armada or SWC, but one thing's for certain. Armada's intro had been meant for SWC. At least, that's the only reason I can see for the Shok'lar/Salthi to die so easily.

EW says:
Wha?

Oh, sorry. I did actually misunderstand you. I thought that you guys were saying that the Kilrathi put up a hell of a fight against the Nephilem, while you meant against us.
Of course, the Nephilem may not have even come if there were no Kilrathi

.

But the Raptor has better guns, and IIRC missiles.

You recall correct. It has more *powerful* guns, and it does have more missiles. But as you know, missiles are dead easy to avoid, while powerful guns aren't necessarily the best. The Raptor's max gun range is 3000, and only at 2400 does it unleash its full power. Meanwhile, the Gratha has a gun range of 4800 (? I can't rembember what laser range is, and KSaga gives the wrong stats), and its other guns kick in at 3000. That means, that by the time you get within gun range, you'll be too busy trying to keep your craft from breaking up to even fire at my Gratha.

Seing how the Jalthi manuvers like a pig, I'd say it would be prety easy to get on it's tail.

Manoeuvres like a pig?

Compared to what, a Hornet? The Jalthi's 50dps is quite comparable to a Raptor's 60/50/60. Even a Scim only has 60/60/70. That's not all that much difference

. Particularly since you're faster, so your manoeuvrability actually suffers (you can't make as tight a turn).

And I never had trouble contoling it, I actualy like responsive fighters.

<Shudder>

The Hhriss isn't as good as everyone makes it out to be though. A Rapier or a Raptop could go against it any time.

Once again, you make your decision without thinking what it would be like to face one of these things without a human pilot. But hell, that's not exactly something that we have any idea about

.

Yup, it's slow with piss poor missiles and a manuverebility that's comparable to the Rapier.

And twice the armour and shields

. But its speed is no problem, and neither are the missiles. It's got afterburners to avoid the missiles with, and when that's done, sit-and-spin.

Ah, but then I could use some kick stop manuveres, reversing the thrust, shit like that….

And wish that you were in a Rapier, because it's the only thing that can out-accelerate a Salthi

. But as I said, you're in a Hornet. Thus, your accel rate is the same as his.

Not if your wingman in Prophecy don't do jack.

Don't ever believe that

. Even if they don't do all that much killing, they certainly distract the enemy. And they DO kill every once in a while.

And the better AI wouldn't matter? Even if I could be killed by one missile in WC4, with the Prophecy AI the bugs wouldn't either shot them that much at me since I outmanuver them, or I'd drop the decoys witch I have an exccess of on the Prophecy ships.

No, we use WC4 AI

. The bugs plaster you with missiles

. And with that many missiles coming at ya, even WCP's generous decoy numbers would quickly run very, very low.

 

[Earthworm]

Oh, sorry. I did actually misunderstand you. I thought that you guys were saying that the Kilrathi put up a hell of a fight against the Nephilem, while you meant against us.
Of course, the Nephilem may not have even come if there were no Kilrathi

.

No no no. I meant that if the Kilrathi wouldn't attack us back in 2634, than Moore and others like him would almost completly dissarm the Confed fleet.

You recall correct. It has more *powerful* guns, and it does have more missiles. But as you know, missiles are dead easy to avoid,

In WC1 yes, but techincly they shouldn't be.

while powerful guns aren't necessarily the best. The Raptor's max gun range is 3000, and only at 2400 does it unleash its full power. Meanwhile, the Gratha has a gun range of 4800 (? I can't rembember what laser range is, and KSaga gives the wrong stats), and its other guns kick in at 3000. That means, that by the time you get within gun range, you'll be too busy trying to keep your craft from breaking up to even fire at my Gratha.

But by the time the lasers will do enough damage to your craft the Raptor will be already close behind you unleashing it's neutrons.

The best pilots, like the Red Baron, fire at close distance.

Compared to what, a Hornet? The Jalthi's 50dps is quite comparable to a Raptor's 60/50/60. Even a Scim only has 60/60/70. That's not all that much difference

.

10dps isn't much in your mind?

Particularly since you're faster, so your manoeuvrability actually suffers (you can't make as tight a turn).

But you can get on the tail using your spead, and stay there when you slow down.

<Shudder>

Yes, shudder, Q. I'm coming in my Raptor, and there's hell to pay!

Once again, you make your decision without thinking what it would be like to face one of these things without a human pilot. But hell, that's not exactly something that we have any idea about

.

But I can compare the stats fo the two right?

Assuming that the pilots are about equaly skilled, the Raptor should win.

And twice the armour and shields

. But its speed is no problem, and neither are the missiles. It's got afterburners to avoid the missiles with, and when that's done, sit-and-spin.

Those shields and armor won't mean shit if I can get on his tail and he can't get on mine.

And wish that you were in a Rapier, because it's the only thing that can out-accelerate a Salthi

. But as I said, you're in a Hornet. Thus, your accel rate is the same as his.

Acceleration isn't the only thing neccessary. He doesn't know what I'm about to do, and he won't be able to react in time.

Don't ever believe that

. Even if they don't do all that much killing, they certainly distract the enemy. And they DO kill every once in a while.

But the WC3 and WC4 wingman kill even more.

No, we use WC4 AI

.

So you admit it.

It is because of the AI.

The bugs plaster you with missiles

. And with that many missiles coming at ya, even WCP's generous decoy numbers would quickly run very, very low.

Not so. Don't forget that the WC4 fighters generally carry less missiles. And if I'm in the Banshee or the Bearcat, I can use a certain manuver I like to call runing to avoid the missiles.

 

[Quarto]

No no no. I meant that if the Kilrathi wouldn't attack us back in 2634, than Moore and others like him would almost completly dissarm the Confed fleet.

Well, I wouldna know about that, since I dinna read AS.

The best pilots, like the Red Baron, fire at close distance.

Actually, the Red Baron was famous for his accuracy - he could shoot people down at any range.

10dps isn't much in your mind?

Nope

. It's just not enough to give you enough advantage.

But you can get on the tail using your spead, and stay there when you slow down.

Nay. He'll get you with a kickstop.

And since you're tailing him at less than 2400 metres, you'll never have a chance to brake.

But I can compare the stats fo the two right? Assuming that the pilots are about equaly skilled, the Raptor should win.

Well, no, that's the whole point. Both have their advantages. All told, the Hhriss' superior roll rate will make it pretty hard for you to take advantage of its wide body.

Those shields and armor won't mean shit if I can get on his tail and he can't get on mine.

Ah, but he can. That's what kickstops and loops are for.

Acceleration isn't the only thing neccessary. He doesn't know what I'm about to do, and he won't be able to react in time.

Not at all. A Salthi doesn't have to get any closer than 4500. That gives the pilot several seconds to brake.

So you admit it.

It is because of the AI.

No, it's because of the pink eleph... what am I saying? Yes, dammit, it's because of the AI. As I recall, I said that about twenty posts ago!

Not so. Don't forget that the WC4 fighters generally carry less missiles. And if I'm in the Banshee or the Bearcat, I can use a certain manuver I like to call runing to avoid the missiles.

Yeah, but you'd be fighting WCP ships. The only thing from WC4 would be the engine and the AI. And while I don't know how many missiles the bugs carry, one thing's for certain - there's a hell of a lot of bugs

.

 

[Earthworm]

When it was created it may have had better shields and armour, a lot of guns etc...but compared to a WCP ship it isn't even nearly tough enough to slug it out with a Plunkett.

It's Phase Shileds have a strength of 8000 cm of durasteel, it's much larger, and it has much more guns and missiles than we never see used.

The Dreadnought had 4500 armour (all around) with 6200 shields (I don't know if these are the same stats as the game...they came with the ship).
The Plunkett anihilated it in less than ten seconds.

Did the Dreadnought have standard turrets, or turrets commonly encountered on converted capships that aren't really turrets? Second, what kind of guns where they? The antimatter guns the Dreadnough carries can get through the Phase Shields that can stop everything but torps or Maces. If you just gave it laser turrets they wouldn't be able to scratch the Plunkett. And it has more fighters.

So no...I do not think I was exaggerating. The Kat Dreadnought c2660's does not have the firepower to cause any serious damage to a Plunkett c2680's or the shields/armour to repel firepower of that magnitude

.

Maybe it's because you didn't give any reall weapons to the Dreadnough?

And the converted Dreadnought isn't nearly as large as it should be.



[This message has been edited by Earthworm (edited May 26, 2000).]

 

[Earthworm]

Well, I wouldna know about that, since I dinna read AS.

tHUtz Cus y0u s0ock!

Actually, the Red Baron was famous for his accuracy - he could shoot people down at any range.

Really? Red Baron was just a medicore flyer, and I heard that he was considered one of the best because he got in close where he could never miss.

Nope

. It's just not enough to give you enough advantage.

Replay WC3 and see how much difference there is between a 'cat and the T-bolt.

Nay. He'll get you with a kickstop.

And since you're tailing him at less than 2400 metres, you'll never have a chance to brake.

But than I'll acclerate to my top speed and run get out of his sights.

Well, no, that's the whole point. Both have their advantages. All told, the Hhriss' superior roll rate will make it pretty hard for you to take advantage of its wide body.

It's not that hard to aim at even the flat part of any Kilrathi ship.

Ah, but he can. That's what kickstops and loops are for.

Yeah, and I can use those too. Plus my superior speed and manuverebility.

Not at all. A Salthi doesn't have to get any closer than 4500. That gives the pilot several seconds to brake.

He'll fly past me in two seconds.

No, it's because of the pink eleph... what am I saying? Yes, dammit, it's because of the AI. As I recall, I said that about twenty posts ago!

Sure you did Q, sure.

Not so. Don't forget that the WC4 fighters generally carry less missiles. And if I'm in the Banshee or the Bearcat, I can use a certain manuver I like to call runing to avoid the missiles.

Yeah, but you'd be fighting WCP ships. The only thing from WC4 would be the engine and the AI. And while I don't know how many missiles the bugs carry, one thing's for certain - there's a hell of a lot of bugs

.[/B][/QUOTE]And I have a hell of a lot more decoys that are more effective than the WC4 ones, and I can still be in the Piranha/Panther/Vampire and do my runnig manuver.