Xbox 360 and Gamestop - Frustation

[Quarto]

You don't think Microsoft doesn't like the rumors and the resulting media coverage it attracts? There is no real risk of losing customers because there is very little competition (console wise) to lose them to. MS will resupply the stores as the units keep rolling off the line and into the planes and trucks. I'm not saying they're holding anything back at all, or even that they are "feeding the rumors." All I'm saying is they like the hub-bub, it's great hype, it is free tv coverage and they get to have several interviews where they get to talk about the wonderful measures they are taking to ensure that "Timmy gets one for Christmas." For public relations you can't beat that kind of great face time on TV.

It's not what you're saying that bothers me - it's how and why you're saying it. You're stating something so damned obvious that it's hard not to assume that you're saying this to criticise Microsoft - because I can't see any other reason why you'd bother saying it.

Yeah, publicity is good. So yeah, they're happy about it. But what's your point? You said this to someone who was criticising yet another one of those "evil Microsoft" theories... so it seems to me that to you, the fact that they're happy about publicity somehow makes Microsoft bad. If that's not what you're trying to say, then my apologies... but in that case, I'm at a loss as to why you bothered saying anything at all on the subject .

I really doubt that they lose potential buyers of the xbox 360 through this. If I hadn't have gotten one yesterday I'm wasn't going to say, "Well screw them! I'll never buy an xbox, that will show 'em."

Yes, they will - only, you don't understand this because you're an entirely different category of consumer. You're the guy that actually wants an Xbox because it is an Xbox. But there are hundreds of thousands (more likely millions) of parents out there who want an Xbox, even though they don't give a shit about an Xbox... they want to buy one because little Timmy wanted one for Christmas. To them, the Xbox is just a Christmas gift - if they can't buy it in time for Christmas, they're going to buy something else for Christmas instead. And when the Xbox finally becomes available four weeks later, they're not going to care - they have already spent their money, the kid has already got his Christmas present, and the Xbox no longer has any value.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

And I think this is common knowledge now but the PS2 was downgraded before they would let it be sold in the USA because it was originally using an experimental chip using the same type of chip as the PS3 (but a smaller version), the USA thought it was a security risk and that it was capable of controlling Sats and stuff, I originally played the FIRST one when I was over in Korea and got a look inside it, then I played the one in the USA and the one in the USA ran like crap compared

I know people may dispute this, but I was there and saw an original one, saw how it played, played it myself, got a look inside it. Then I got a look inside the one in the USA ,the USA one didnt look the same inside, didnt play the same(was sluggish instead of running like a bat out of hell with UBER graphics)

Yup, the evil American government censored the PS2... because... it controlled satellites.

How do you not drown yourself in water fountains?

You don't think Microsoft doesn't like the rumors and the resulting media coverage it attracts? There is no real risk of losing customers because there is very little competition (console wise) to lose them to. MS will resupply the stores as the units keep rolling off the line and into the planes and trucks. I'm not saying they're holding anything back at all, or even that they are "feeding the rumors." All I'm saying is they like the hub-bub, it's great hype, it is free tv coverage and they get to have several interviews where they get to talk about the wonderful measures they are taking to ensure that "Timmy gets one for Christmas." For public relations you can't beat that kind of great face time on TV.

I think a major system launch gets these rumors no matter what - they had them for the PSP last year, and there ended up being an ample supply. Creating a news story and actually not having enough to meet demand are two very, very different things. You don't need any kind of shortage to get dorks to wait in line for something, and that's all you need to get something on the news -- I say this as a veteran of a dozen 'Star Wars' midnight madnesses and three times as many TV interviews.

Microsoft actually doesn't have enough Y-Boxen to go around -- they've said so themselves, very plainly. They've also said why: because they want to have a worldwide launch, which is something the production capacity doesn't allow for. This is a business strategy - in the past, Europe has felt like it's gotten the short end of the stick with regards to consoles... Microsoft wants to launch the system everywhere, and in so doing hopes to capture a new market.

 

[Maj.Striker]

It's not what you're saying that bothers me - it's how and why you're saying it. You're stating something so damned obvious that it's hard not to assume that you're saying this to criticise Microsoft - because I can't see any other reason why you'd bother saying it.

Yeah, publicity is good. So yeah, they're happy about it. But what's your point?

That's really all I was trying to say.

I was directing my initial post at the now banned Darklighter's assertion that there was an evil Microsoft conspiracy. My point that there was no conspiracy to "hold back" units by MS as that would actually hurt Microsoft's sales and makes no business sense. They like rumors of a shortage for the free press, but they're doing everything they can to roll the units out as quickly as possible. That is all I was trying to say. I didn't realize it came out in an anti-Microsoft manner.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

Say it aint so!

 

[Mace]

And I think this is common knowledge now but the PS2 was downgraded before they would let it be sold in the USA because it was originally using an experimental chip using the same type of chip as the PS3 (but a smaller version), the USA thought it was a security risk and that it was capable of controlling Sats and stuff, I originally played the FIRST one when I was over in Korea and got a look inside it, then I played the one in the USA and the one in the USA ran like crap compared

I know people may dispute this, but I was there and saw an original one, saw how it played, played it myself, got a look inside it. Then I got a look inside the one in the USA ,the USA one didnt look the same inside, didnt play the same(was sluggish instead of running like a bat out of hell with UBER graphics)

I think common knowledge was limited to the advertising joke that the circuitry in the PS/2 was powerfull enough to control an intercontinental missile(as it's logic unit), which may very well be possible. however for that to be a thread you would still need a missile and a warhead to begin with...

The real danger was the furby, furby's observe people, gather data on all sorts of things, exchange data with one another and transmit it back to home base.

 

[cff]

You know that the CPU power of 3 C64s was enough to get a man on the moon? So any debate about possible military use is kinda moot. And yeah it will pretty much boil down to the games offered. 1TF to 1.8TF will be something like we see today beween the X-Box and the PS2. Sure in comparison the X-Box looks better, but not that much. However when it comes to games I'd pick any console over the X-Box personally. The X-Box lineup seems to be mostly identical to the PC, while other consoles seem to have more non ported titles. I dunno if it is true (statisically), but it feels this way to me.

 

[Maj.Striker]

I think the main difference is it will be another year before the PS3 comes out...during which I can be enjoying some fantastic next generation games (there's a few that look incredible). Or I could just be waiting for the PS3. In my case I decided I'd rather buy the 360 and enjoy my gaming and when the PS3 arrives check it out personally to see if it's worth the hype. Between now and then I know for sure there are at least three great titles that will likely be released. Gears of War, Ghost Recon 3 and likely Halo 3 before the PS3 launch.

 

[ChrisReid]

You know that the CPU power of 3 C64s was enough to get a man on the moon? So any debate about possible military use is kinda moot. And yeah it will pretty much boil down to the games offered. 1TF to 1.8TF will be something like we see today beween the X-Box and the PS2. Sure in comparison the X-Box looks better, but not that much. However when it comes to games I'd pick any console over the X-Box personally. The X-Box lineup seems to be mostly identical to the PC, while other consoles seem to have more non ported titles. I dunno if it is true (statisically), but it feels this way to me.

Yeah, the teraflop numbers are pretty abstract. They're both running multicore 3.2 GHz processors, they both have about the same amount of ram, the PS3 has a 10% faster video card, while the XBox 360 has special extra resources allocated to the card to do "free" FSAA and other effects. If people thought the PS2 and XBox looked similar, the 360 and PS3 will be even more so. Much more important in distinguishing the platform than the raw power of each system are the secondary benefits. The PS3 has the blueray movie player built in, while the XBox has a much more robust online service and connectivity with your PC for streaming music and such.

While the XBox certainly has the most overlap with the PC lineup, these secondary benefits are why I'd choose it first. Everything works together so well and so easily. With the XBox Live you've always been able to check your friends list, see if people are playing games online you might want to join with and then pop in and follow your friends around really easily. All that's been expanded now. If I want to play Perfect Dark with ace for a while, we can do that, and I can leave and we can maintain our chat session while he's shooting nazis in Call of Duty and I'm running time trials in Project Gotham. We no longer need to run an XBox Live chat session and have a separate DVD player to watch movies together, since the 360 can do both. The XBox Live market now has free downloadable demos and high definition trailers for lots of games. Accomplishments I make it games, even single player games, are all tracked online and I can see what milestones all my friends have achieved in each game they own. In addition to custom game soundtracks stored on the hard drive, I can now stream music and video over my home network from my PC or plug an ipod into the USB ports. And then for me personally, I've become much more accustomed to controllers than a keyboard/mouse for most games (and the 360 can now be powered on/off via the wireless controller), and I've invested in a better tv and sound system than I'd be able to get for my computer. The 360's also a bunch more powerful than my home computer, and getting it was a bunch cheaper than upgrading my computer would have been.

 

[Pedro]

GAME just e-mailed me to confirm I was getting one of the launch date systems for the UK (with all the noise about failures I'm not certain if thats a good thing or not), only the core package ofcourse but its still nice.
Whilst limiting supply at launch is a valid marketting technique as others have said it simply doesn't apply here, the 360 has been pushed to launch at christmas because thats the time the most noise is made about such products. We've seen some production faults, some games rushed to release, but all of this is to get as many systems out there and as quickly as possible not the reverse.

Its an interesting generation to study, with release order varying so greatly from the previous generation, Nintendo attempting to market its next system as an "and" console provinding a very unique experience and selling it as cheap development option in this multi-threaded programmer hell things are really shaking up.
What we'll see from the PS3 is anyones guess, all speculation about relative performance is premature - particularly since a lot more emphasise will be on the programmers to make use of it (FYI the 360 development is similar to PC and Revolution is using a slightly altered version of the gamecube API whilst training up a team of average size for a AAA title is speculated to work out to be $18 for the PS3). The technology jump is also significantly less impressive than in previous generations, particularly now when developers haven't really had time to put the multi-core nature of the 360 to good use in time for launch.

 

[ChrisReid]

GAME just e-mailed me to confirm I was getting one of the launch date systems for the UK (with all the noise about failures I'm not certain if thats a good thing or not),

There's no "noise" about failures. When a system launches with a high defect rate, there is definition commotion about it online. This was clearly evident as recently as the PSP launch with such persistent issues as the square button sticking, the discs ejecting on their own and numerous dead pixels. The defect rate for the 360 is very low and not worth mentioning. The only reason that news sites are picking up on the story is because it makes a sensational follow-up to all the business about people waiting in line for twelve hours prior to launch. Microsoft's official response only gives these articles more meat to dig into, where they highlight that Microsoft acknowledges very limited defects which are present in any consumer electronics production run. Most articles conveniently downplay the part where Microsoft announced that they will overnight a return-shipping box to anyone who reports a problem, and overnight a replacement system as soon as the initial one returns, for a total turnaround of 3-5 days. This is in stark contrast to Sony's first PSP response, which basically amounted to calling each of the above-mentioned defects normal and not worthy of warranty replacement at all.

The technology jump is also significantly less impressive than in previous generations, particularly now when developers haven't really had time to put the multi-core nature of the 360 to good use in time for launch.

The bit about developers not yet utilzing the artitecture is definitely valid, but I wouldn't downplay the technological jump. The raw horsepower has been bumped up an order of magnitude, but also of major importance are the high definition ubiquity and online feature/connectivity advancements.

 

[Pedro]

By noise I meant all the videos, screenshots and talk thats come up about it on various forums, I've not seen any figures other than heresay about the reliability. IIRC you work in a games store though right chris? Have you had any one trying to return the systems?
The heresay has microsofts support lines as being chocker but I called it noise intentionally to avoid using the word "reports" which would imply I was putting a some stock in the rumours (if I did I'd not have ~£300 worth of kit on pre-order), the PSP had the same "noise" associated with it and mine is working beautifully.

The power has certainly gone up in a comparable order of magnitude to previous generations however its impact on the games is yet to be clear. Certainly increased polygon counts at this point are going to do little to wow the gamers (although even I was impressed by the Kameo demos) so its all going to boil down to what features the underlying graphics architecture has support.

 

[Maj.Striker]

The heresay has microsofts support lines as being chocker but I called it noise intentionally to avoid using the word "reports" which would imply I was putting a some stock in the rumours...

Well I can't say anything of late but I can confirm when I tried contacting customer service on 22nd (day of the launch) I was on hold for twenty minutes. I expected no less, I'm sure millions of people were calling in. As for defects, have had absolutely no problems with my xbox 360. Nor has anyone else that I know of.

 

[ChrisReid]

IIRC you work in a games store though right chris? Have you had any one trying to return the systems?

I haven't worked at a game store in a while.

The power has certainly gone up in a comparable order of magnitude to previous generations however its impact on the games is yet to be clear. Certainly increased polygon counts at this point are going to do little to wow the gamers (although even I was impressed by the Kameo demos) so its all going to boil down to what features the underlying graphics architecture has support.

Very little has impressed me about Kameo at all. But while polygons get a boost across the board, there are some very good graphical advancements here and there. I've been playing Call of Duty today, and the smoke is just incredible. It's far beyond anything I've ever seen in any other game. Smoke grenades are really magical things the way they fill in an alley and obscure vision. And an obvious benefit to supporting higher polygon counts isn't just that your models are more detail, it's that you can have a hell of a lot more people on screen at a far greater draw distance. Some of the epic battles in Call of Duty really blow away the scope of the fights in Ghost Recon 2. Si I would call these things feature enhancements that are now possible because of the underlying graphics improvements.