WING Commander: The Kilrathi War (Space TC for Star Wars Empire At War)

[Major A Payne]

Perhaps your right and if I do sound defensive then I appologise. However, I won't change my stance on how I think it would look for a project which I'm essentially doing for my self.

Oh and comparing this model to one thats likely to be hundreds of thousands of polys is seems to me to be no better than my "piss poor attitude".

It seems to me theres far to many people not willing to entertain any kind of thought that things can change. What are we?? Stuck in the dark ages it seems.

(quick edit)
Oh and AD. If you ever make any kind of mod yourself bare in mind one thing. Mod makers make their mods for themselves, not for the communities they address images and videos etc.etc. with. Also before you go criticising my "upping the poly count", you might want to consider the game I'm doing this for and look at the mechanics of it.

So tell me then, theoretically speaking, would you rather the originally is used instead??

 

[AD]

Perhaps your right and if I do sound defensive then I appologise. However, I won't change my stance on how I think it would look for a project which I'm essentially doing for my self.

Oh and comparing this model to one thats likely to be hundreds of thousands of polys is seems to me to be no better than my "piss poor attitude".

It seems to me theres far to many people not willing to entertain any kind of thought that things can change. What are we?? Stuck in the dark ages it seems.

(quick edit)
Oh and AD. If you ever make any kind of mod yourself bare in mind one thing. Mod makers make their mods for themselves, not for the communities they address images and videos etc.etc. with. Also before you go criticising my "upping the poly count", you might want to consider the game I'm doing this for and look at the mechanics of it.

So tell me then, theoretically speaking, would you rather the originally is used instead??

Again, change is made with reason. If you want to change stuff you need to be prepared that others might not like that. And if your main audience is yourself, why should anyone help you or be interested?

Upping the polycount has nothing to do with me, or others not carring for your changes though. You can easily add detail to the hull/engines/windows withought betraying the original design. The way the model was designed for WC4, the ship isn't supposed to be some new fancy ship like Star Trek's USS defiant. It's an older design. And honestly given the screenshots you provided I do like the original better.

 

[Major A Payne]

Hmmm, incase you hadn't noticed (even though its pretty apparent in the thread title) this mod isn't intended for WC4. Why should people be interested or help?? Hmmmm, looking at your replies would make me wonder why I bothered posting (and to this you'll probably agree that I shouldnt have posted). Oh and this entire thread (with exceptions to perhaps one or two replies) proves that some are just narrow minded in their reactions.

Interesting though, that you mention about "upping the polycount has nothing to do with me, or others not carring for your changes though" seeing as it was you that made a specific point of the FMV version of the model. I also noticed you've ignored my last question completely, but don't worry. I wont be posting on this subject so you won't have to worry about my "piss poor attitude" and (from the impression I'm getting from some replies here) my equally poor modelling. I suppose my projects just going to be one big pile of shit now isn't it (feel free to agree with me if you want).

Oh and Loaf. You can feel free to delete this thread if you like. I'm just not in the mood to deal with narrow minded people (and read into that how you will).

 

[Bandit LOAF]

You're being an idiot.

 

[raxiv]

(quick edit)
Oh and AD. If you ever make any kind of mod yourself bare in mind one thing. Mod makers make their mods for themselves, not for the communities they address images and videos etc.etc. with. Also before you go criticising my "upping the poly count", you might want to consider the game I'm doing this for and look at the mechanics of it.

First of all: Please speak for Yourself. I was offended by You saying that modders are doing mods for themselves. From which planet are You man? I'm doing mods for about 5 years, always addressing them to the community, since there is NO reason to create a mod for Yourself to begin with. Not gonna go with metaphors now, but seriously, thats load of crap You are saying. Ask the rest of the modders, for ex. @ ModDB - but be warned, prepared for being flamed.

I'm working on my mod for the WC Community, and I'm considering all the ideas I can get. You don't have to be aggressive. Fight arguments with arguments. Be Mature.

Second: Why the hell, do You post a damn thread, on community boards, about a mod You are doing for YOURSELF.

Third: How narrow minded, is a community that cares, and provides valuable feedback in a thread they where asked to provide?

Fourth: Stop taking out your life problems on the community. If You want to play in Your own sandbox, alone - fine. You're being an idiot, LOAF is right.

Fifth: Constructive criticism is the most valuable thing You can get, respect it.

Sixth: Have a nice day. I vote for closing this flame and hatred filled thread.

 

[AD]

Hmmm, incase you hadn't noticed (even though its pretty apparent in the thread title) this mod isn't intended for WC4. Why should people be interested or help?? Hmmmm, looking at your replies would make me wonder why I bothered posting (and to this you'll probably agree that I shouldnt have posted). Oh and this entire thread (with exceptions to perhaps one or two replies) proves that some are just narrow minded in their reactions.

Interesting though, that you mention about "upping the polycount has nothing to do with me, or others not carring for your changes though" seeing as it was you that made a specific point of the FMV version of the model. I also noticed you've ignored my last question completely, but don't worry. I wont be posting on this subject so you won't have to worry about my "piss poor attitude" and (from the impression I'm getting from some replies here) my equally poor modelling. I suppose my projects just going to be one big pile of shit now isn't it (feel free to agree with me if you want).

Oh and Loaf. You can feel free to delete this thread if you like. I'm just not in the mood to deal with narrow minded people (and read into that how you will).

I believe I did answer your question. If I *had* to choose between your updated version and the original I would have to go with the original. But you are deciding to take offence where none is needed. Perhaps I was a little harsh, for which I'll apologize but even considering things like camera position and an engine capable of rendering more polys and with various shaders, I think there's a lot that could be done with the model that doesn't involve bevelling all the edges to the degree you have. Like I already said countless times you can easily increase the detail on a Durango a number of other ways that will look really good. This isn't really about using old models or not so I find it odd that you insist I didn't answer you question when I cleary stated my preference.

I also never once commented on your modeling abilities and it's good you want to put your skill to use. And I should clarify that above all a person does need to enjoy their work, or the project will never get anywhere, but getting all defensive doesn't win any favors.

So if you don't want to change it... Fine. But don't come here saying you don't care what other people think.

 

[NinjaLA]

Your durango images seem to be broken.

Don't worry, I'll host them for you.

 

[JasonRocZ]

I agree with everybody then I can't be wrong Cheerio my friends

 

[Major A Payne]

Okay so let me try this again.

Firstly, Loaf. Nice reply. I remember once that I was informed to "read the rules" prior to posting. Perhaps theres one set of rules for forum admins and another set for the rest of us mere mortals.

But that aside.

raxiv. You were offended by my cutting remarks and yet you made plenty of your own in this "hatred filled" thread, which you added to. I could go into a long winded speech about the length of time I've been modding for but its not really necessary now is it but suffice to say, longer than you. Whoopee for me!!

Ad. The comparison between this rework and the FMV version (which was no doubt a model of several hundred thousand polys) is enough to make me believe that my modelling abilities were in doubt. However, seeing as this wasn't the case I appologise for my reply, which (after having re-read it) was unjustified and unecessary. I understand your offering criticism, so perhaps a suggestion or two if you please. I can re-re-work the original mesh and just keep the new one for another time, but please bare in mind that the game that this is going into isn't anything like a WC game. The graphics engine is specifically tailored for only such things as very basic bump mapping (when it bloody well works), and light maps. Although FoC does use shaders I don't think that the game actually has any specific shaders which would add detailing of any kind (at least none that I've seen and I know of one modding expert who has tried all the available ones), except for brightening textures. Again. Appologies to you Ad for my remarks.

 

[AD]

The comparison between this rework and the FMV version (which was no doubt a model of several hundred thousand polys) is enough to make me believe that my modelling abilities were in doubt. However, seeing as this wasn't the case I appologise for my reply, which (after having re-read it) was unjustified and unecessary. I understand your offering criticism, so perhaps a suggestion or two if you please. I can re-re-work the original mesh and just keep the new one for another time, but please bare in mind that the game that this is going into isn't anything like a WC game. The graphics engine is specifically tailored for only such things as very basic bump mapping (when it bloody well works), and light maps. Although FoC does use shaders I don't think that the game actually has any specific shaders which would add detailing of any kind (at least none that I've seen and I know of one modding expert who has tried all the available ones), except for brightening textures. Again. Appologies to you Ad for my remarks.

Here's a good place to get ideas - I went and took a bunch of screengrabs that you can use to get ideas for how to add more detail to your model...

In this first image you can make out some of the rear details including two sections of windows that are indented into the angles rear wall. The right section of windows is dark presumably because of battle damage so your model could have them lit.

This next one gives a good overview of the ship including the inset engine intakes.

There's some good detail of some of the raised side panels in the next shot

A nice close-up of the side. Notice the inset side section and slight bevel on the top. Also the raised orange and red panel. Curious question: How does the game you are using handle turrets? They are separate meshes in WC4... so adding those to your model will also add some detail and some polys.

A nice view of the inset intakes on the engines... Also note the set of two windows on either side of the flightdeck.

Detail of the windows below the flight deck:

Notice the row of inset windows on the side of the main hull

Some nice engine detail here

A nice view of some of the hull detail of the front section

THere are two rows of windows on the top section which is pressumably where the bridge is. All but four in the lower row are burnt out.

 

[Major A Payne]

Hmmmm. Theres certainly a shed load of differences. I've never seen the FMV version, but many thanks. Those reference shots should prove VERY useful. The problem is, turrets aren't handled like say, Freelancer (I'm using that as an example as I've played it quite alot). In Freelancer turrets are independant of the main model (presumably similair to WC) and on capital ships are capable of firing at independant targets and auto tracking capabilities. In FoC they aren't. Models do have them but except for one ground hero unit they are locked into position for the most part. One modder I know of has managed to force the game to use tracking turrets, so perhaps, if I can get hold of him he'll be able to shed some light on his techniques.

 

[CyberUrso]

Howdy,

I would hate all this fall apart due flame wars.

Thanks a lot Major Payne and AD to bring it back to track .

I revisiting my own portraits since although they will be so tiny that nobody will see them I still want them to look somewhat good ( a bit better than they look now). I'm starting to use the WC4 movie to take the initial screenshoots (the resolution is way higher than the WC3 movie) so let's see how it goes. I will send some pics today if I can (working on Sunday - oh well it is all good ).

Major Payne, I'm always posting at 400x400. That will force you to resize it. If you want I can post 50x50 (I just like to keep it a bit higher res just in case).

Regarding the model that you made already Major Payne, why you didn't keep it as a Mk II or something like that? I'm afraid the amount of info that we have for some factions wouldn't be enough to fill up all the tech trees so that might come handy if you need some upgraded units. Just my two cents.

AD, the caps are awesome :|. Err, what did you use as your source to grab them? I'm just wonder besides the great movies that Qeeg made I can get screencaps for portraits elsewhere. I would love to find a highres set of movies from WC3 to get so good portraits .

Cheers everyone!!
CyberUrso

 

[Bandit LOAF]

Firstly, Loaf. Nice reply. I remember once that I was informed to "read the rules" prior to posting. Perhaps theres one set of rules for forum admins and another set for the rest of us mere mortals.

Goodbye.

 

[AD]

AD, the caps are awesome :|. Err, what did you use as your source to grab them? I'm just wonder besides the great movies that Qeeg made I can get screencaps for portraits elsewhere. I would love to find a highres set of movies from WC3 to get so good portraits

The WC4 DVD (which queeg also used as source) works great for screen capture. I've increased the size a little just to make it easier to see some of the details.

 

[CyberUrso]

The WC4 DVD (which queeg also used as source) works great for screen capture. I've increased the size a little just to make it easier to see some of the details.

Howdy,

Thanks a lot chap !! I have the CD version (I bought it on the same week it was released, I think the DVD came later on ). Oh well, at least thanks to Queeg I can enjoy some of the conversation paths in highres

These are some of the portraits I did. Comments are always appreciated :




























Cheers,
Cyberurso

 

[AD]

Howdy,

Thanks a lot chap !! I have the CD version (I bought it on the same week it was released, I think the DVD came later on ). Oh well, at least thanks to Queeg I can enjoy some of the conversation paths in highres

These are some of the portraits I did. Comments are always appreciated :

Most of those look pretty good. THere's the odd one that has a bizarre expression on their face but over all I think the concept works well.


I did think of another source that you may want to consider for a few of the pictures. The Wingman section of the loadout terminal in WC4 has pictures of all the pilots that you can pick for a wingman that are pretty much close already to what you want. People like Tolwyn and Paladin aren't there but all the pilots including some that don't show up in the FMV are there. When you copy the screen and cut out that picture the end result is a roughly 95x95 pixel portrait of the pilot...

Here's one of catscrath for reference:

 

[CyberUrso]

Most of those look pretty good. THere's the odd one that has a bizarre expression on their face but over all I think the concept works well.

Hehehe, thanks for checking them. When you look for too long at your own work everything looks just fine . It is good to have a reality check once in a while.

By looking at them again I saw one that stood out for me. It seems Captain Colson just found out that he will not get anything from his 401K (it looks like he is about to say "WHAT?")

If Colson is not the one (I will definitely redo that one) just let me know which one and I will try again

Also thanks for the idea. You gave me an excuse, er I mean reason, to reinstall WC4 and play it (or should I say use it to capture screen?)

As soon as I'm done with another batch of portraits I will send over for your comments...

Cheers,
CyberUrso

 

[Major A Payne]

To begin with, thankyou Loaf for unbanning me and appologies to one and all for my earlier remarks.

Further appolgies for the long time since posting but this new rebuild has proven.....difficult. However, thanks to those images provided by AD this new version looks a hell of alot more like the original stock version. Unfortunately, I don't have the same kind of quality textures as the FMV version which is a big shame. So any further suggestions or corrections (please bare in mind that this model is almost 5000 polys which is somewhat higher than I had expected, and I don't want to stretch it to much further), feel free to point them out, but I believe this is as close as its likely to get (also please can everyone remember that I am working with the original game stock models as well, so there will be errors between this and the FMV version). If this is to the fans satisfaction (although I suspect I still won't be able to please everyone but still), then I can continue with the Hades (which has already been started).

 

[AD]

To begin with, thankyou Loaf for unbanning me and appologies to one and all for my earlier remarks.

Further appolgies for the long time since posting but this new rebuild has proven.....difficult. However, thanks to those images provided by AD this new version looks a hell of alot more like the original stock version. Unfortunately, I don't have the same kind of quality textures as the FMV version which is a big shame. So any further suggestions or corrections (please bare in mind that this model is almost 5000 polys which is somewhat higher than I had expected, and I don't want to stretch it to much further), feel free to point them out, but I believe this is as close as its likely to get (also please can everyone remember that I am working with the original game stock models as well, so there will be errors between this and the FMV version). If this is to the fans satisfaction (although I suspect I still won't be able to please everyone but still), then I can continue with the Hades (which has already been started).

That's looking really good. It's come a long way. Can you also put up a side view so we can have a look at the profile?

 

[Major A Payne]

Sure AD. Please remember though that because I'm using very low resolution textures theres no ship names.

Oh and I think I may have to change the name. I've been going over the site and IIRC theres some fan based item listed somewhere that carries the same name as my project and I would prefer no confusion over the name, so in light of that if anyone wants to make suggestions for a new project name then feel free to offer it.