Wing Commander Fleets

[Jason_Ryock]

Okay, alot questions...first, are the Ranger-class carriers still active during Prophecy? (haven't played the game) And the Vesuvius-class, are they active, and if so, how many? Does anyone know how man fighters they carry? The Plunkett-class gun cruiser is also listed as carrying fighters? Does it? And if so, how many? What about the Ajax and the Vesuvius, and the Ranger too, for that matter, how many fighters do those ships carry? I'm quite at a loss for those numbers as well as for hard numbers on what the Cerberus carries.

On another topic, why don't we ever see Wing Commander Carriers operating with any kinds of fleets or support vessels? I know we see the TCS Victory being escorted by a Cruiser and two Destroyers, but that's just about the only time, unless it happens in Prophecy...if it does, would someone mind telling me what ships are escorting it?

Occasinally I've seen information suggesting the Confederation has some sort of Corvette type ship, but I have yet to find any detailed information on it (Short of the CIC Database, which is good for numbers but not for general information) so any help there would be great too.

And...does anyone know what a typical combat wing is composed of? At various fan sites, and even in the books I hear a wing referred to as a number of differant things. In WC3 for example (my primary experiance with WC is with WC 3-4) you fly almost every ship on every mission meaning that (unlike the Star Wars universe) squadrons are based more on groups of pilots and less on groups of ships.

Also in WC4 a jump point is held open long enough for fighters to make it through, is it possible for a ship like the Midway which has the ability to hold a jump point open long enough for the ship to get through (because it's a big ship) to hold the jump point open for fighters to get through? Or can the fighters just flit through it before the Midway jumps through?

(basing that information on the FAQ on jump points found in the articles section of this page)

The last thing (I know, I'm another obnoxious newbie asking alot of complex questions) does the Seahawk have any kind of Electronic Warfare options? I know it does have AWACs capability.

Any help on these topics would be great guys. I'm interested in developing some realistic fleet plans for some missions I'm working on as part of a campaign in Secret Ops and I want to make sure everything is a realstic as possible fleet wise, escort wise, and so on.

Thanks alot to anyone who takes the time to read this, thanks even more to anyone who responds.

A very curious,

-Jason Ryock

 

[Darkmage]

WC2 has concordia being escorted by a gilgamesh destroyer wc1 has several different ships that come and go, super wing commander has the tiger's claw with a fleet in several jump scenes.

 

[psych]

Ranger-class carriers were sent to the mothballs after the Kilrathi War. They carry 40 fighters. 4 squadrons of 10.

In Wing Commander, strike carriers and megacarrier sometimes sortie without escorts, but fleet carriers always have escorts. The Victory had 1 cruiser and 2 destroyers, but remember, she was a light carrier. And a light carrier that had the worst reputation in the Confed Navy. And light carriers are expendable compared to fleet carriers, so why give more escorts?

Fleet carriers should always sortie with at least 6 escorts, 2 of them should be larger ships like cruisers.In False Colors, even four escorts (2 cruisers, 2 destroyers) was described as a "scratch built supporting battle group". In the Wing Commander movie novel, the Concordia had 5 cruisers and 5 destroyers as escorts.

Vesuvius-class carriers can carry up to 400 fighters, bombers, and support craft if needed. Tallahassee-class cruisers (your Ajax), can carry up to 8 (half squadron of WC4 16-fighter squadron = 8).

Confed corvettes exist in later times, but we hadn't seen em yet.

In WC4 and WCP, Confed fighter squadrons were in 16. 4 flights of 4 fighters each. 3 Majors command 3 flights, and a Lieutenant Colonel commands the 4th flight and the squadron. A fleet carrier had 6 squadrons: 2 light, 2 medium, 1 heavy, 1 bomber. That's 96 fighters in all. That doesn't include the squadron of support craft. As for WC3 . . . Eisen said in WC4 novel most squadrons were 10 birds. As for the squadrons that weren't part of that "most" category, who knows, maybe 12? The human Landreich squadrons in False Colors had squadrons of 12 birds.

Normally, fighters must have jump drives to jump.

Don't know about Seahawks. Probaly just SWACs is my opinion.

 

[ChrisReid]

Originally posted by psych
Confed corvettes exist in later times, but we hadn't seen em yet.

Unless I'm misunderstanding what you're saying here, we do see Corvettes in Wing Commander 1 and other sources.. the good old Venture.

 

[CraigPichach]

Here is a question.... the "Fleet Carriers" in Action Stations of which the early Concordia (not the one from WC2) and Ark Royal are mentioned... are they of the "Concordia Class Fleet Carriers" we see in WC4 (perhaps refitted and pulled out of the mothballs)?

 

[TC]

The Ark Royal and Concordia in Action Stations are indeed Concordia Class Carriers. No Concordia class ships are really pulled out of mothballs during the war (except during Fleet Action, but that's only because they were decommissioned during the false peace) as no Concordia class carrier in working order would be taken out of service. They were Confed's main production line of fleet carriers throughout the Kilrathi war.

 

[Viper61]

Originally posted by TC
The Ark Royal and Concordia in Action Stations are indeed Concordia Class Carriers.

So the Lady Lex in WC4 is a refitting of the Concordia carrier from AS? Well, you learn something new every day. So what is the Concordia from the Movie (too many damn concordias) ?

C-ya

 

[psych]

Chris,

As in the later times, I was referring to the WCP era.

 

[ChrisReid]

Originally posted by Viper61
So the Lady Lex in WC4 is a refitting of the Concordia carrier from AS? Well, you learn something new every day. So what is the Concordia from the Movie (too many damn concordias) ?

There's sorta only three Concordias, and they're easy to remember. The Class Ships for the Concordia class of Carriers and SuperCruisers.. and the Confederation Class Dreadnought Concordia.

 

[psych]

The Concordia-class fleet carrier was Confed's mainstay carrier throughout the entire war. To compare, the Concordia-class is similar to the Nimitz-class carrier of today. It was a traditional design that focused on the entire "carrier's only offensive weapon is her fighters, all weaponry are for defense, they aren't supposed to engage other capital ships, that's what the escorts are for" mentality that is true in today's US Navy carrier fleets.

Besides upgrades in armor, phase shielding, and different defensive weaponry, there's not really much you can do to upgrade these carriers, which is why they were in service for such a long time (same reason the Nimitz-class will be in service for years and years to come).

Other carrier designs, such as the Bengal-class strike carrier and the Confederation-class dreadnought, were rather radical compared to ConFleet's conservative carrier doctrine because they didn't need as much escorts, they had greater offensive weaponry, and they were well-equipped to go head to head with other capital ships.

 

[Viper61]

I understand the tactical difference between all the WC capships, I'm just a little fuzzy on the designation for ones we actually know of. Ok, so let me get this straight . . .

WC2 Concordia = Confederation class Dreadnaught
WCM Concordia = ?
AS Concordia = Concordia class Carrier
WC4 Lexington = refit/upgraded Concordia class Carrier?

Maybe this will set my line of questioning straight.

C-ya

 

[TC]

Originally posted by Viper61
WC2 Concordia = Confederation class Dreadnaught

Yes

WCM Concordia = ?

Concordia Class Supercruiser

AS Concordia = Concordia class Carrier

Yes

WC4 Lexington = refit/upgraded Concordia class Carrier?

Refitted only in that it is no longer the lifeless hull it was after the Battle of Terra. There really isn't a difference between it and it's contemporaries.

 

[Viper61]

Okay that makes more sense. It seemed like Confed was building way too many types of carriers, way too fast to me. While I'm at it, I want to try and clear some other things up. The main thing is what was being built at what time.
See if this rings true, if not please correct me.

Carrier design
Just before the war
Fleet carriers - Concordia class carrier
Strike carriers/Light carriers - Ranger class carriers ?
Special - ?

WC1
Fleet carriers - Concordia class carriers
Strike/Light carriers - Bengal class
Special - ?

WC2
Fleet Carriers - Concordia class
Strike/Light carriers - Waterloo class/Tarawa class ?
Special - Confederation Class

Wc3
Fleet carriers - Concordia class ? (restoring old ones becasue of lack of construction yards)
Strike/Light carriers - Unmothballing Rangers ? (Since construction yards are destroyed)
Special - Confederation class (or was tHe TCS Concordia the last one left?)

Wc4
Fleet Carriers - Concordia Class (restoring old ones since Terra's production facilities have just come back online)
Strike/Light carriers - ?
Special - Vesuvius class

WCP/SO
Fleet Carriers - Eagle class ?
Strike/Light carriers - Hades class
Special - Vesuvius/Midway classes

Does this make sense with what we've seen from games and novels? One main carrier type through out the war with changes in light/strike carriers (maybe easier/quicker to build) and special carriers?

C-ya

 

[Eder]

The Eagle-class ships are light (escort?) carriers, not fleet carriers... Also, they have been in production at least since WC3.

Hades-class and Waterloo-class ships are more like strike cruisers than strike carriers, I guess.

The Concordia was indeed the last Confederation-class ship we know of.

Bengals are an old class, they were also built before the war, IIRC.

And finally, the "special" thing until WC1 was probably the Concordia-class supercruisers (like the movie's Concordia), though I don't know exactly when that ship was commisioned.

 

[gryphon]

EAGLE class?

Someone please fill me in.

 

[psych]

It's not Eagle-class, but rather Eagle type. They were Confed's latest model of light escort carrier, refined with the latest gadgets and stuff like that. The TCS Eagle was the ship that gave the Victory the Lancelot Excalibur squadron. She was described as "slightly larger then the Victory, but similar in configuration" and was very sleek and streamline looking.

 

[Jason_Ryock]

*clears throat*

So uh...about the rest of those questions?

Are the Vesuvius-class carriers active (At the time of Prophecy) and if so, how many?
The Plunkett-class gun cruiser is also listed as carrying fightersm Does it, And if so how many?
Ajax is a Tallahasse-class Cruiser, correct?

Is the Midway ever escorted in Propechy by a fleet?

Is it safe to assume that during Prophecy (or after) the Venture-class corvette would no longer be in service?

Pilots in WC are trained to fly all craft, not specalize in a few? Does that make any sense?

And Wing Compositions, people keep saying things about Support Squadrons, what does that mean? What ships are there? How many, who crews them?

I'm assuming WC Fleets do Under way Replunishing, is that handled by transports or other ships? Do we even know?

In WC4 a jump point is held open long enough for fighters to make it through (Including Blair's Thunderbolt and Marshalls Hellcat which don't have jump engines). If the information in the Jump FAQ at the main CIC - site - articles section is correct, then a large ship (such as a Midway-class carrier) has to hold a jump point open longer then other ships would...does this mean they can open it or hold it open long enough to let fighters travel through?

Assume for a moment the Confederation was at full strength, what kinds of ships would we see escorting the main fleet carriers? Does anyone know what the upkeep cost per year is on the Midway-class carriers?

Finally, does anyone at all have any information positive or negative on weather or not the Seahawk has Electronic Warfare Capabilites? I would kill to find out the answer to that question.

Still confused,

-Jason Ryock

 

[Jason_Ryock]

On another note...

Is there anywhere to look to get some hard information about the missiles in WCP and SO? I don't mean, XXXX /kps, I mean like, "the IFF missile can be used best when..."

As someone in the WCRPG once put it,

"Origin wasn't kind enough to give us a big book of things we never explained"

and I've always been at a bit of a loss as to which missiles to use when, and for what.

-Jason-I-Use-My-Guns-To-Much

 

[TC]

Re: *clears throat*

Originally posted by Jason_Ryock
So uh...about the rest of those questions?

Are the Vesuvius-class carriers active (At the time of Prophecy) and if so, how many?

There are probably more, but we know of the following:

TCS Vesuvius, TCS Mt. St. Helens, TCS McKinley, TCS Fuji, TCS Kilauea, TCS Rainier, TCS Eisen

The Kilauea, Fuji and Rainier aren't really canon though, since they aren't in a game and Johnny's only told us about them. It's doubtful they'll ever actually show up unless someone asks for a list of ship names again (which isn't impossible...)

The Vesuvius and Mt. St. Helens are both confirmed as destroyed.

The Plunkett-class gun cruiser is also listed as carrying fightersm Does it, And if so how many?

My brain is saying 15 fighters, I can't think of what source that's from at the moment though, and I'm too lazy to try and look it up. I'm sure someone will come by and confirm.

Ajax is a Tallahasse-class Cruiser, correct?

Yes

Is the Midway ever escorted in Propechy by a fleet?

Nope, circa Prophecy, the Midway was just coming to the end of her shakedown cruise, so she wasn't geared up for war, nor did she have all her fighters aboard. It was also peacetime, during which the Midway was designed to be able to function alone. If she ever didn't get suprised, there'd be a battle group formed around her.

Is it safe to assume that during Prophecy (or after) the Venture-class corvette would no longer be in service?

Yeah, it's pretty much safe to assume there aren't any Venture's left in Confed service. There are probably some out there somewhere.

Pilots in WC are trained to fly all craft, not specalize in a few? Does that make any sense?

Well, it depends on the era, and the source you're looking at... It's more of a game thing than anything else... In WC1 you changed ships when you changed wingmen, which made sense.
In WC2, you just sort of flew everything. You were sort of a wildcard that ended up in the middle of things, though.
In WC3 and 4 you were in charge of the flight wing and you got to pick who to fly with.
Prophecy seperates the fighters to a degree... so various squads will fly from a set group of fighters, and not just one, but not all fighters.
SO is obviously a different situation entirely
In the books you see people flying one fighter craft, generally... with the only really notable exception being the Wing Commander.

And Wing Compositions, people keep saying things about Support Squadrons, what does that mean? What ships are there? How many, who crews them?

Support squadrons are support craft. Shuttles, SAR, SWACS, Re-Fuelers, EW planes, etc. They're piloted by, terrifyingly, the support squadron pilots.

I'm assuming WC Fleets do Under way Replunishing, is that handled by transports or other ships? Do we even know?

Transports are the general way for fighters and supplies, but one of the primary mission specs that the original escort carriers were designed for was delivery of fighter craft to larger vessels. We also see fleet carriers transfering fighters every once and a while.

In WC4 a jump point is held open long enough for fighters to make it through (Including Blair's Thunderbolt and Marshalls Hellcat which don't have jump engines). If the information in the Jump FAQ at the main CIC - site - articles section is correct, then a large ship (such as a Midway-class carrier) has to hold a jump point open longer then other ships would...does this mean they can open it or hold it open long enough to let fighters travel through?

No idea... and it doesn't really matter, since every fighter on the Midway, except possibly the Wasp, circa Prophecy has a jump engine.

Assume for a moment the Confederation was at full strength, what kinds of ships would we see escorting the main fleet carriers? Does anyone know what the upkeep cost per year is on the Midway-class carriers?

No idea what upkeep costs would be... But escorts, at a minimum, would be comprised of a couple of destroyers and a couple of cruisers... that's an absolute minimum and would probably be quite a bit larger.

Finally, does anyone at all have any information positive or negative on weather or not the Seahawk has Electronic Warfare Capabilites? I would kill to find out the answer to that question.

Can't think of the Seahawk demonstrating such capabilities in anything we've seen... so I would say that it doesn't... It's possible, but we haven't seen any indications as far as I can recall.

 

[TC]

Re: On another note...

Originally posted by Jason_Ryock
Is there anywhere to look to get some hard information about the missiles in WCP and SO? I don't mean, XXXX /kps, I mean like, "the IFF missile can be used best when..."

If I understand what you're saying (qualitative descriptions rather than quantitative), the original Prophecy ICIS manual has pretty good descriptions.