this game, WC Saga, and the truth

I wished I replied to it sooner, to tell you the truth. They banned alot of sites at the Instructor's office (crossfit, CIC, other stuff) so now it's the first time I actually got behind my laptop.

Okay, seriously, as for what I think about this thread, there hasn't been points brought up on this thread that I haven't asked myself a long time ago. And on both sides, at that, as well.

I'll follow up on this on the weekend. Another happy day (and early muster) in rollback land tomorrow.
 
I wished I replied to it sooner, to tell you the truth. They banned alot of sites at the Instructor's office (crossfit, CIC, other stuff) so now it's the first time I actually got behind my laptop.
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No, you replied to the thread yesterday... with the same thing.

This thread is idiotic -- look how reasonable I was when it started, and I end up getting personally attacked for no reason I can figure. This isn't the first time this has happened... first Viper and now Sphynx. Either Saga just happens to make unbelievably bad choices for team members or they realize they can go pick a fight at the CIC to get attention that will make up for not having a product.
 
Bandit LOAF said:
look how reasonable I was when it started, and I end up getting personally attacked for no reason I can figure. This isn't the first time this has happened... first Viper and now Sphynx. .
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..Eh? :confused: hmm, I think you're reading into their responces something that wasnt there nor intended, honestly.
 
I think that both sides in this are right. I do have to mention a few things to the Saga team however. You are fast arriving at the point that your mod, when it's released no one will give a damn. You have spent alot of time talking about your project instead of doing it. You have on a number of occasions attacked members of the CIC staff as well as random fans that come here.

I think people are tired of your excuses as to why there is nothing, because we wonder why the hell we are still hearing about something that for all we know does not even exist and you just show up in the news for kicks.

I realize that mods are not easy and getting people to work together is even harder. I have respect for the fact that you dreamed this up. To tell the truth though, this is like talking to the one guy in highschool that said he'd be a big success and you ask him what he does and he can't tell you.

My advice to this project is...Shut up and get something done. Caring about this community is cool, but when you start a project, you have fans to consider and you haven't been doing a very good job of that. I don't care that you have personal problems at all, becuase I have seen time and time again how ChrisReid, Cpl_Hades, LOAF, KrisV and several others have put this community on their backs to make it go. All of them have things to do in Real Life, but you don't hear them looking to even get noticed, they make an effort to have the community come first as much as they can.

-Rance-
 
Saga Team: You have said quite a bit about things being almost done for sometime now and people are getting restless. You've shown screenshots and you've said there's only a few things that're left to be finished. Then why not release a demo? If you're still working on the prologue then releasing a playable demo would help show that you are indeed working on the project. And on another note, it doesn't have to be bug free. After all, it's just a demo so it's not expected to be perfect. As long as it's not like that April Fool's demo. Something that shows the progress you've made. Maybe an actual level that's been worked on but not completely finished. It doesn't need to have the voice acting or any of the fancy doodads. Like I said, just something to ease the restlessness of some of the people who're still waiting.

LOAF: I mean no offense by this because I think I can see how what Sphynx said might've been taken as offensive. But when I first read it, I didn't see it as him making fun of something. I would like to believe that what he was trying to say was that if he could talk to us in person and look us in the eyes that we would see that he's trying to be sincere.

Now with all due respect, I'm not saying you're wrong because I don't know all the facts and everything that has been going on. I do read the threads but I must confess that I don't read as much as many other people do here and I don't post as much as I would like to so I might be behind on things. I'm just presenting how I saw what he said from my view with what I know in hopes of possibly having everyone getting along again. That's all I have to say on that.

Now, back to the Saga team. Updating the site regularly is a good start, but you should give the fans something to keep them on board. Whether it's a demo, a few tidbits of fiction, or even a couple of new trailers. Just something again to show the progress. If you have nothing to show and tell us that it's coming but there've been delays because of other things, it just comes across as ya'll making excuses for not working on it. We've heard you say that there's been a lot of progress going on in the background but the problem is you have nothing to show us for it. I believe that it's important to keep the interest of the fans or you won't have any fans around when you do finally get it done.

To be totally honest, the Saga board was one of the boards I used to check often, but now I don't even check them at all. You say this project isn't a public service, but who'll play it other than you guys when you release it? It's not exactly a public service but (and I'm sorry if I'm mistaken) aren't mods and projects like Saga and Standoff made so that the fans of Wing Commander can have something that they can enjoy? You don't make a mod just so that you, yourself can enjoy it. Well, you could but then you wouldn't have announced it. So don't keep us in the dark and show us what's going on. At least some of it anyway.

So, like I said earlier, updating the site regularly is a step in the right direction. But, more needs to be done if you want people to stay interested and be eager to play when you release the game or else you'll find that you did all the hard work for this project and no one's here to appreciate it.
 
LOAF: I mean no offense by this because I think I can see how what Sphynx said might've been taken as offensive. But when I first read it, I didn't see it as him making fun of something. I would like to believe that what he was trying to say was that if he could talk to us in person and look us in the eyes that we would see that he's trying to be sincere.

Now with all due respect, I'm not saying you're wrong because I don't know all the facts and everything that has been going on. I do read the threads but I must confess that I don't read as much as many other people do here and I don't post as much as I would like to so I might be behind on things. I'm just presenting how I saw what he said from my view with what I know in hopes of possibly having everyone getting along again. That's all I have to say on that.
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It's not that at all. The eyes thing is a personal jab. Sphynx is picking at me over a private matter, which people should have learned not to do years ago.

I hate this project. Every time we try to engage in any kind of reasonable discourse with them they turn it into some petty fight about noticing them. We've got Sphynx trying to engage reactionary old LOAF and at the same moment some unknown Freespace fanboy pops up to troll about how they've got the 'best' engine. To borrow from Wing Commander 2: Go to hell, Saga.
 
I followed this discussion for a while and now this goes in a totally wrong direction.

I'm with turbotim, LOAF, you are reading something between the lines, that just isn't there. What shpynx meant was that, in a face to face discussion, we would realize that he is honest.

And in general:

Even if chris and loaf are the backbone of this community, I don't think they have the right to be aggressivly offensive against people that don't share their opinion.
I don't like this aggressive style of writing and I think forum rules should be valid for everyone, user and admin.
 
I don't think LOAF is reading between the lines. You'd have to look at all the stupid crap that Saga has pulled over the last five years. A lie here is a lie in real life. Even if I met Sphynx in real life, I'm pretty sure I would think he, like everyone else that tried to play Saga Rep to the CZ is a huge jerk. He was stating the same crap that 3 other people that played the same role did. We are not idiots here, we know recycled BS when we see it. If you look at any other thread that invovles Saga discussion it usually ends with someone trying to pretend this whole fiasco was a misunderstanding because LOAF or Chris, or someone high up has it in for their project. This community isn't a public service, but I don't think I have ever seen anyone shy away from bashing the people that make it possible. So why do we make exceptions for people who make mods? This does not mean that I support bashing anyone, but bash one, bash the other, fair is fair

-Rance-
 
I'm with turbotim, LOAF, you are reading something between the lines, that just isn't there. What shpynx meant was that, in a face to face discussion, we would realize that he is honest.
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Oh, good, a random German to tell us what Sphynx means.

Even if chris and loaf are the backbone of this community, I don't think they have the right to be aggressivly offensive against people that don't share their opinion.
I don't like this aggressive style of writing and I think forum rules should be valid for everyone, user and admin.
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... and to rant about the admins in a manner unrelated to the current discussion. Brilliant, Saga.
 
Bandit LOAF said:
Oh, good, a random German to tell us what Sphynx means.



... and to rant about the admins in a manner unrelated to the current discussion. Brilliant, Saga.
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Uuuuuuh, what?

I have nothing to do with Saga or whatsoever.

I visit this website for years but I registered for the forum just months ago, sorry.

If you take a look in the fan directory you can find me under Bier, Johannes "Raider", and you may notice, that this entry was made years back.

I didn't want to offend you or chris, I just posted my opinion.

P.s. Even if I'm german i'm able to sense aggressiveness in the style of writing
 
P.s. Even if I'm german i'm able to sense aggressiveness in the style of writing
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There's no rule against "aggressiveness", though. You're saying you don't like Chris and my opinion (wholly unrelated to Sphynx being an ass) and that we should be punished for having it... *because* we run the forums. That doesn't make sense.

(Also: Chris? What does Chris have to do with any of this? He hasn't posted to this thread.)

What do we have to do with WC2?
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It's Blair's line to Jazz, else it seems comically over-dramatic.
 
I agree Chris has nothing to do with this discussion since he didn't posted here.

As for the agressiveness...some of your posts can be interpretated as beeing agressive towards certain people or groups. I am quite sure they aren't.
So people might get a wrong impression about how you run this board. Myself I would never question that.
 
I agree Chris has nothing to do with this discussion since he didn't posted here.

As for the agressiveness...your post can be interpretated as beeing agressive towards certain people or groups. I am quite sure they aren't.
So people might get a wrong impression about how you run this board. Myself I would never question that.
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I'm very aggressive, especially in debates. It's not a negative at all - it is one of the easiest ways to express conviction in such a setting. The fact that random user mentioned Chris makes it seem, quite clearly, that he has some unrelated axe to grind... or, like many other people in this thread, like he is consciously trying to draw this into a larger and larger argument.

That's *entirely* unrelated to this very specific issue: if you make fun of my eye you will never, ever, ever post to the Chat Zone again.
 
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