The X-Wing Theory

[LeHah]

There are two main classes of Imperial Star Destroyer, the Imperial 1 and the Imperial 2. The Impstar Duece (as it is called in the Xwing novels) is a upgraded version with more powerful weaponry, but a sacrifice of some shield strength.

Stuff like this is what made me stop reading Star Wars books.

Every fandom is allowed to have its little corners of nerdiness where you can wonder if Luke Skywalker could kill Roy Batty or if Han Solo could beat up Indiana Jones *and* Dr Allie Fox - but the Star Wars novels take it to new extremes of stupid. Star Destroyers hidden underground on Coruscant as prisons, Luke having super-mega-powers, great-great-descendants of characters, Boba Fett being a 98 year old clone and looking for a cure, nine variations of one ship type with the tenth one being labeled "DESIGN X" because its *that* powerful. And its not like we can blame one author - its seemingly *all of them* (Yes, even Zahn and anyone else you like)

I can't think of another series whos books do more discredit to its source.

 

[frostytheplebe]

Stuff like this is what made me stop reading Star Wars books.

Every fandom is allowed to have its little corners of nerdiness where you can wonder if Luke Skywalker could kill Roy Batty or if Han Solo could beat up Indiana Jones *and* Dr Allie Fox - but the Star Wars novels take it to new extremes of stupid. Star Destroyers hidden underground on Coruscant as prisons, Luke having super-mega-powers, great-great-descendants of characters, Boba Fett being a 98 year old clone and looking for a cure, nine variations of one ship type with the tenth one being labeled "DESIGN X" because its *that* powerful. And its not like we can blame one author - its seemingly *all of them* (Yes, even Zahn and anyone else you like)

I can't think of another series whos books do more discredit to its source.

See my Star Wars Legacy thread... welcome to my hell

 

[LeHah]

Sorry, your sig is enough hell for me

 

[ChanceKell]

I can't think of another series whos books do more discredit to its source.

Up until recently, I'd say the Star Trek series took the prize for taking all the class out of a series. I've never read any of the books personally, but just by glancing at the sci-fi section in your local bookstore you'd see Trek books outnumbering the Wars. At least Lucas attempts to keep all the various storylines and characters in check - the Star Trek books have been openly mocked even by their writers for lack of canonical continuity.

Granted, books aside, Star Trek is already filled with confusing twists in their official canon (Klingons anyone?), and any series that has William Shatner as a contributing author is already tainted.

 

[Max Gene]

any series that has William Shatner as a contributing author is already tainted.

Lies.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

Until recent times the Star Trek novels adhered to a very strict no-continuity (and in my mind, very admirable) policy. Any Star Trek book you picked up between 1966 and 2003 or so was an entity unto itself - a story using the setting you know from the show rather than being based on some convoluted novel-specific backstory.

The big problem is, in my mind, the internet. Suddenly everyone in the world can interact directly with the people in charge of these projects... and they all suggest, en masse, their entirely cheap preferences for small-universe drivel and continuity apologetics over storytelling and world building.

 

[LeHah]

I've never read any of the books personally

Oh good - willful ignorance on the subject. I imagine you'll just have to tell us about it now!

At least Lucas attempts to keep all the various storylines and characters in check - the Star Trek books have been openly mocked even by their writers for lack of canonical continuity.

Theres so much wrong with this, that I can illicit an "Uuuuuuuuugh" and still seem smarter that your post in the end.

 

[Mace]

The big problem is, in my mind, the internet. Suddenly everyone in the world can interact directly with the people in charge of these projects... and they all suggest, en masse, their entirely cheap preferences for small-universe drivel and continuity apologetics over storytelling and world building.

I'd say the opposite, look how many "little" references you find in Star*Soldier to small things that otherwise would have never been mentioned, look how many small things you can find that might chear a fan up, some vigilant, some crude, some plain out ridiculous. Things as a series bible are not always made, and sometimes the writers do come up with their own twist of things.

As for the human-klingons in star trek, they saw the mistake and put a marking on it extra in DS9, and explained it in Enterprise, basically it is the internet that reminded the writing team of this, or a fan who became writer and adressed this issue.

 

[Dyret]

As for the human-klingons in star trek, they saw the mistake and put a marking on it extra in DS9, and explained it in Enterprise, basically it is the internet that reminded the writing team of this, or a fan who became writer and adressed this issue.

IIRC human klingons were just klingons without weird skulls... Like there being nine different versions of the Tiger's Claw or Mark Hamill not looking like Bluehair. It wasn't some universe breaking superflaw that needed an elaborate explaination.

 

[LeHah]

I'd say the opposite, look how many "little" references you find in Star*Soldier to small things that otherwise would have never been mentioned, look how many small things you can find that might chear a fan up, some vigilant, some crude, some plain out ridiculous.

You're comparing apples with glassware sets.

Star*Soldier builds on the univese.

Star Wars canon and its general fandom tears everything apart through examination, restructuring, rethinking, retelling and the like.

LOAF once aptly pointed out that not a single Star Wars novel is like a Star Wars movie. This is very true - the novels have turned into a super-weapon measuring contest with increasingly dumb situations. I'd call the characters cardboard but that would be an insult to packing material.

Star Trek novels makes a very astute point in not trying to piece everything together - are you there to sit down and figure out where the story takes place and what else is going on in the universe at that moment across X number of novels/movies/episodes/video games/comics - or are you there to have fun watching Kirk and Picard save the day?

 

[Jason_Ryock]

Star Trek novels makes a very astute point in not trying to piece everything together - are you there to sit down and figure out where the story takes place and what else is going on in the universe at that moment across X number of novels/movies/episodes/video games/comics - or are you there to have fun watching Kirk and Picard save the day?

I have to say, as much of a fan as I am of the Star Wars novels and their tied together story line, this post makes ALOT of sense.

You cannot - absolutely cannot - pick up a Star Wars book and read it, any Star Wars book, or comic, and have any idea whatsoever what is going on in the universe. If you haven't read the X number of novels/movies/episodes/video games/comics that have gone on before you're NOT going to enjoy it and you're NOT going to have fun. And you're NOT going to get to the point of reading the novel in the first place - which as pointed out above, is watching your favorite heroes save the day.

 

[Vyris Tykin]

I agree that you can't just jump into the middle of one of the many trilogies and series and understand what's going on. It's most noticeable during the New Jedi Order series and I found it highly irritating. To this day, I still haven't read many of those books. I refuse to touch the Legacy of the Force series for the time being for the same reason.

That said, I believe that there are several series that set the arena up at the beginning of their individual books (X-Wing series and the MedStar duology are great examples) in a sufficient enough manner as to keep the reader appropriately up to date.

The Star Trek approach is really appropriate for that particular universe. It mimics the episodic nature of the television series quite nicely. In a way, there are several Star Wars books that give me that episode sized taste as well (Death Star is a really great book).

In response to the fandom tearing things apart through examination and the like, it can't really be helped thanks to the enormous amount of information available. I bet you there's someone out there you can give you the near daily schedule of Luke Skywalker from beginning to end. My approach is certainly more casual since I enjoy playing the RPG with my friends and I read to give myself that edge when flavoring the world I populate. I'm no fan of the crazies though. They give us more casual fans a bad name by association and they're a constant source of frustration for me.

 

[LeHah]

In response to the fandom tearing things apart through examination and the like, it can't really be helped thanks to the enormous amount of information available

You make it sound like that should be acceptable.

 

[Madman]

... and any series that has William Shatner as a contributing author is already tainted.

Don't mock the Shat, his books are the only star-trek lore I read! (he's so up himself its brilliant)

 

[Vyris Tykin]

You make it sound like that should be acceptable.

Not acceptable as such, just inevitable. You provide people with a pile of info that has some sort of continuity, you're gonna have someone nitpicking over the smallest bits.

 

[Jason_Ryock]

Not acceptable as such, just inevitable. You provide people with a pile of info that has some sort of continuity, you're gonna have someone nitpicking over the smallest bits.

We see much the same thing around here at the CIC - sometimes worse because LOAF posts what the truth is and people still seem to ignore it for these far-fetched off the wall ideas.

(Super Polymer Missiles FTW!)

 

[Vinman]

We see much the same thing around here at the CIC - sometimes worse because LOAF posts what the truth is and people still seem to ignore it for these far-fetched off the wall ideas.

(Super Polymer Missiles FTW!)

MY Border Worlds fighter is made out of a salvaged vampire and panther so it is super maneuverable and it has a cloaking device shields like a longbow and six flash packs

 

[Jason_Ryock]

MY Border Worlds fighter is made out of a salvaged vampire and panther so it is super maneuverable and it has a cloaking device shields like a longbow and six flash packs

Mine has an unlimited cloaking device anti-matter drive and a flash pack manufacturing system, so I never run out.

 

[frostytheplebe]

Mine has an unlimited cloaking device anti-matter drive and a flash pack manufacturing system, so I never run out.

PAH! Mine has a heavy plasma cannon with the turret neutron guns as a secondary, it has a mace missile, 6 IFFs, a tachyon gun rear turret, and the wraith's afterburners, a full elevated body track outback 757 bumper, metal block intakes, full 130 11-1 popup pistons turbojet 390 horse power.

 

[QuailPilot]

...Atleast mine has a life support system.