Terrorist... or not...?

Morality is a value. It isn't an absolute. It changes from upbringing to upbringing. To ask for a Moral High Ground from anyone is pointless as it varries from person to person.

And the best way to defeat an enemy is to outright defeat him. Naked force has solved more conflicts and issues than any type of mediation. And I'm sure you're gonna give me that bothersome nonsense of "Right to life" or "Everyone has the right to live" once again. To answer it, I'll paraphrase "Starship Troopers" (The book, not the movie):

What right to life does a person have who is drowning in the ocean? The sea will not harken his cries. What right to life does a man have if he refuses to save his children from a burning building? If two men are in the arctic and cannibalism is the only means for survival, who's right is greater?

As for Osama's death, I do not care how he dies, as long as there is evidence it was him and that there is irrefutable evidence he is dead.
 
to add to what LeHah said...if you want to make the right to life argument, why don't you think about the 3000 who died instead of those who killed them.
 
Turnabout is fair play... but only if used properly. Blasting double(or triple) the number of people out of existance isn't the way to do things... just send in an executioner squad with a book full of mugshots. Er, wait, no... That's what ol' Adolf did. Yeah, blame them for our misfortunes! Kill them all! (the preceeding opinions are not neccicarily the opinions of Manic, or of anyone with half a brain)

At any rate... there is no right or wrong... but bombing the crap out of them isn't going to fix things. That's just firing a bottle rocket into a hornet's nest. You want to fix things? Seal the borders off from all immigration, cease trade outside the country(except for Japan. Let's face it, no other country can make better games with the exception of Chris Roberts himself). Isolationism is the only, I repeat, only way to stop this problem. Seal ourselves off and stop pestering other countries. Let them see what it's really like without the US scrambling around like "Aunt Gracy", trying to keep everyone happy with each other... they'll be screaming for help inside of a month.
 
thats what they want..the US out of world affairs. if we do that, then the terrorists will just turn their attention to some other country until the whole world is one big islamic state-which is what they want
 
I make a tiny little distinction, 19 hijackers and their buddies deserve what they get, somebody who had the misfortune to be born in the wrong country does not deserve to die because of the actions of thier countrymen.

One big Islamic state, eh? As opposed to going around
"civilizing" people and teaching them english so they can got to work in US owned factories for pennies an hour? It's not as if other religions have a history of anihilating other cultures or anything.:rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by Ender
I love how our solution to terrorism is to beat these twisted bastards at their own game.

They kill 3,000 of our civilians, lets kill ten thousand of theirs.

Moral high ground? You can't get there from here.
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Way to skim. No wonder you seem to be defensive, you don't even listen to what other's are saying. I said nothing of killing civilians, only of killing terrorists. And you're right about moral high ground. You may notice I said nothing about having moral high ground...
 
Originally posted by Ender
I make a tiny little distinction, 19 hijackers and their buddies deserve what they get, somebody who had the misfortune to be born in the wrong country does not deserve to die because of the actions of thier countrymen.
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If you want to make an omlette, you gotta break some eggs. If Bush gets the war he wants, guess what, civies are gonna die. That's totally acceptable to me, since I care about my own survival over anyone else's. To care about another culture's survival is to be humane, to care about your own is to live and survive.

One big Islamic state, eh? As opposed to going around "civilizing" people and teaching them english so they can got to work in US owned factories for pennies an hour? It's not as if other religions have a history of anihilating other cultures or anything.:rolleyes:
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Two wrongs do not make a right. And let me remind you that the word "Anglo Saxton" was derived from Englishmen brought to the middle east holy land as slaves. Anglo is a rough latin term for "Angel", which is what the catholic pontif described the Saxtons as with their blonde hair and chisseled facial features.

But your arguement is pointless, as you cannot blame the United States on something we do not tolerate. Sweatshops are more commonly found off our land; just because we buy the products and perpetuate it does not mean we are able to go into another country and close down an inhumane production center, when it's the counrty that it is located in job to do.

That implys, they kill our civilians, we kill their's
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Bound to happen. Live with it.

Ender, you're no great humanitarian by posting your whiny and besotted "God save us all!" opinion. If you want to stop this war, I suggest doing so by being more constructive than posting to the CZ. Get out there and get your hands dirty. I, on the other hand, will sit here and wait for the nessessary evil that is rumbling our way.

To finish this post, I'm almost completely certain Ender is not only wrong to an unprecedented absolute but the fact that no one is right but him. I'm tired of this "Point/Counterpoint" crap when one side obviously will not give into logic or the vastness of human history.

WAR IS COMING. DO YOUR PART. JOIN OR SHOOT YOURSELF.

bombing the crap out of them isn't going to fix things
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It sure as hell will! What will have to worry about if we carpet bomb them with those .5 megaton nukes like MacArthur wanted to do to Korea?

I think we should seal our borders a bit better, we can definitely be doing more. But cutting ourselves off from the rest of the world is a very bad idea considering our current economic standpoint.
 
Originally posted by LeHah
Two wrongs do not make a right. And let me remind you that the word "Anglo Saxton" was derived from Englishmen brought to the middle east holy land as slaves. Anglo is a rough latin term for "Angel", which is what the catholic pontif described the Saxtons as with their blonde hair and chisseled facial features.
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Eh?
Anglo and Saxons were people from the actual Germany (from Saxony), they invaded Britain for the first time in the sVII-VIII, and they crushed the British
Nothing with your fancy story of angels and slaves
 
Nothing wrong with speaking your mind here. It's just that the likes of whiny wanna-be pacifists who think they're doing good by asking their government to do the wrong thing. Let me ask you: what is there to be had when people do not want war, but also want answers from the government that did not heed terrorist warnings towards 9/11?

http://members.aol.com/halfimagined/Pictures/newcomic.jpg

As for your reply Ghost, I'll dig up the book where I got that from.
 
Your rants against God are funnier each day that pass, God isn´t guilty of the bad things that happen in your life, saying that God is guilty of those things is negate your share of *things that you did or didn´t*, if your life is so miserable (and remember miserable isn´t an absolute) then see what you can do to change your life. God surely laughs at you if he can read this things
 
"Blame Yourself Or God". Whomever can name where this quote comes from gets a cookie!

And you're assuming God can read, Ghost. If he's all powerful, I think it's redundant if he reads anything.

God is plenty guilty of all sorts of shitty things, just like I'm responsible for all the shitty things I've done to other people, and my oh my is that a long list.

Am I attempting to change my life? Yup. But theres always those things out of your control, those weird little things sometimes refered to as "Acts Of God" or somesuch. It's just the way I do things; if you like it, don't like it, find it insulting or find it humorous, I don't give two shits. I don't expect you to give two shits about my outlook on your life either...

After all, if I wanted your opinion, I'd give you 'five across the eyes'. ;)
 
Originally posted by LeHah
God is plenty guilty of all sorts of shitty things
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I disagree

Originally posted by LeHah
Am I attempting to change my life? Yup. But theres always those things out of your control, those weird little things sometimes refered to as "Acts Of God" or somesuch. It's just the way I do things; if you like it, don't like it, find it insulting or find it humorous, I don't give two shits. I don't expect you to give two shits about my outlook on your life either...

After all, if I wanted your opinion, I'd give you 'five across the eyes'. ;)
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Those actions aren´t Acts of God, it surprises me that someone atheist as you say such things.

And hey, if we only write our opinions when they are wanted, this CZ would be a sad and boring place ;)
 
Originally posted by Ender
"Turn about is fair play."

That implys, they kill our civilians, we kill their's.
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It was actualy in reference to unfair tactics. Some group blows up several thousand of our civilians with unconventional means. Al-Queda claimed they did it like it was some sort of contest. They want to hit bellow the belt, we can do the same: execute prisoners who claim affiliation. Now, this may not be as dastardly as bombing civvies with impunity, but it's slap in the face of every humanitarian hippy this side of the 60's.

However, Ender, you did start a good thought process here. If you consider how very little it takes for these psyco's to become "soldiers," anyone who publicly expresses they are terrorists, are affiliated with terrorists, or support/harbor terrorists should share the same fate. And since their entire force is made up of civilians, including Osama himself, I concede. Yeah, we should kill every last one of them. Thank you for helping me develope my standpoint ender.
 
Originally posted by t.c.cgi
execute prisoners who claim affiliation. Now, this may not be as dastardly as bombing civvies with impunity, but it's slap in the face of every humanitarian hippy this side of the 60's.
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Wow... I don't think I want to know you... That makes me sick. That would make you little better than the people you'd be slaughtering.
 
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