I'll try to at least give the Spoony community a fair defense compared to Truth.
AD said:
He also touches all the bases of basic complaints people level against the movie... Yaaaaayyyyy. We've heard it all before. It's not funny. It's just tiresome listening to the retarded complaints about sound in space (and seriously what Sci-fi doesn't do it) and how they're worried about the other ship hearing them (which they aren't).
Not Every one has heard it before. Not everyone was conscious of all things in 1999, and not every one was even aware of Wing Commander. On this particular forum it is easy to say "we've heard it all before" when your entire community is built upon the series it was based on. Before Spoony, I was not even aware of the game's existence no less the movie.
Secondly, Firefly didn't have sound in space. Serenity dropped this concept, but it is present in the show. The odd part about WC was, however, that the acting and plot acknowledges, consciously, that there would be sound while others it is ignored for cinematic effect. It just makes the scene awkward.
LeHah said:
Anyone who makes a web presence with his own video, starring no one but himself in different characters with a shitty rock song for a title is a self-important jackass.
This can easily be translated to a stage performance. Comedians build their careers by standing on stage, by themselves, and performing, often being brought in by music.
It may not be your brand of comedy, true, but by your logic all comedians are self-important jackasses. To some level, that is true but that is how comedians have always thrived.
LeHah said:
The internet has allowed a certain type of person to become popular. Spoony, much like that unfortunate person named Mike Stoklasa who made those awful Phantom Menace "review" Youtubes, is part of a new trend of shitting all over things needlessly because they feel entitled to something that isn't there. The Internet creates and then enables these people to exist. These are the types of people who suck all the joy out of everything in the guise of an intellectual argument. If you agree with him, you're no one I ever want to break bread with.
I'm sorry you disagree that the trend has moved into the internet, but this has, and always will be the basis for comedy, namely stand up comedy. It is someone going on stage and presenting themselves, often alone, and generally just ranting about some topic in general. Perhaps they say it for shock value, or because it is part of their character, or something else.
What he does is stand up comedy whether you like it or not. This does not mean all stand up comedians are -good-, and a great deal are absolutely terrible, but the stage being replaced by a camera doesn't change what it fundamentally is: stand up comedy.
As far as shitting on thing needlessly... again, that is the basis for probably every comedians stand up act in history. They have no need to bash their relationship, but they will for a laugh. There is no need to ask why there is a razor in the airplane bathroom, why black and whites are different or the same, or, generally, whatever topic you can think of. Comedy is, in of itself, as worthless as its audience allows it to be.
You can claim all these comedians do what they do because they feel entitled to something from life, but that seems to be grasping for straws. You may not feel entitled completely, but I don't doubt you'd appreciate another very well put together game, movie, or other WC related item to your collection.
Spoony being a WC fan, perhaps he did feel entitled to a good interpretation of his favorite sci-fi movie to film. I'm sure 11 years ago a lot of you did. As has been pointed out, a lot of time has passed and I'm sure any small disappointment has been shed thanks to time, reasoning, or what have you.
You are entitled to your opinion, but I'd like to point out that you, on an internet forum, are using your time to explain why an internet stand up comedian is what is wrong with humanity. In your own small way, you're trying to suck what fun there is out of this because you disagree with it fundamentally in the guise of an intellectual argument just as he tried to dismantle this movie.
If these reviews truly suck the fun out of movies/games for you, then that is unfortunate. If you disagree, then disagree, but don't let someone's opinion on a movie ruin it for you.
LeHah said:
Anyone who has a Highlander 2 poster needs to die in a car fire.
You are what you hate, and are doing exactly as he is.
AD said:
I don't care if people like the movie or not. The movie has issues. We know that better than anyone. But what you suggest is the opposite of what spoony does in his review. I can point out many areas where his logic is both flawed and or extremely innaccurate in that particular piece. Yes, he's doing it for so-called entertainment purposes but what for? At who's expense? 10 years after the fact he certainly isn't doing it for people who don't know the games and aren't familiar with the movie, since no one else gives a crap.
So, once something hits the 10+ year mark nobody is allowed to bad mouth is anymore?
MST3K built itself on that premise. I'm sure nobody gave a crap about a lot of those movies, but in a sick way it of gave obscure titles meaning. And, again, I must go back to my point about this being stand up comedy; it doesn't need expense or, really, too many people to give a crap about the actual topic. Riffing is entertaining, and I challenge you to tell me you and your friends have never, ever riffed a movie or game in your entire life. I'd also find it hard to believe that you've never riffed something older than 10 years.
AD said:
Fair drops the theatrics. Fair doesn't make up crap to complain about. Fair talks about the actual problems with the film instead of the crap that gets repeated ad nauseum on the internet over and over despite it's inaccuracy.
Comedy is inherently not fair. It is always someone riffing on someone, and most of the time the thing is question has little opportunity to fight back. This goes from the lightest to the darkest of comedy. From an object or topic, to a person. This is especially true of insult comics, whom have existed much longer than the internet.
As far as ad nauseum across the internet, I don't think that is particularly fair since you are 1) apart of a community dedicated to the series and 2) under the assumption that everyone on the internet knows this movie back to front.
vindicator said:
He clearly fails to consider some of the difficulties of making a film in favor of making jokes about sound in space and hairless kitties or misspelled words. If it's meant to be comedy in total than his predictable jokes fail to bring me along.
I only ever hate movies I consider completely unwatchable. Something like Percy Jackson or Transformers 2. Wing Commander despite it's flaws isn't unwatchable. It isn't a cinematic masterpiece, but considering it's circumstances it did better than what would be considered the unwatchable bombs like super mario brothers.
The work someone puts into a film or game does not give it diplomatic immunity. I'd like to point out that plenty of work went into Transformers and Percy Jackson, yet you seem to be fine will calling them unwatchable.
Now, onto the main post in this thread:
---------------------------------------------
Bandit LOAF said:
Chris pointed this out last month when the kid was raging about Privateer 2--his site's subtitle is "because bad movies and games deserve to be hurt back". Comical unbelief noise! What a stupid, cynical, mean-spirited way to think.The idea that anyone would focus their life on 'hurting' some broad class of things should be disgusting to thinking humans--but apparently we're all eager to line up and salute.
I'm going to go ahead and point out that you aren't a Spoony fan, so your critique of his banner topper is actually pretty unfair. It is also indicative of the fact you've probably only seen these 2 videos of his in total. Spoony is an outspoken lover of terrible movies, and has plenty of out of character and even in character praises of how much he loves the "worst" of his collection. Spoony is actually fairly similar to the Cinema Snob in that regard, as in they have the humility to riff things they love.
http://www.thecinemasnob.com/
This goes along the same lines of Angry Video Game Nerd. The man LOVES games. He has more than you or I will ever own, and has many that really don't exist anywhere else anymore. He could practically build a museum out of how basement, but he riffs on games a few times a month in his show. Because he has the humility to laugh at his own hobby, and understand that not everything is a gem. Sure, the games are really old and the complains are sitting in a grave somewhere but in some ways that is the point. He and his community don't hate games; they riff because they love them.
How about you take "because bad movies and games deserve to be hurt back!" as a joke to not be taken seriously. As I've stated above, he is a stand up comedian and if we personally judged every comedian and took every joke they said completely seriously they'd all by lynched by now. It is a practice of humility to be able to riff on things you enjoy, and not be an extremist that regards any finger pointed at your hobby as a personal insult.
Bandit LOAF said:
People visit WCNews.com because they're fans of Wing Commander. Do people visit "Spoony Experiment" because they're fans of hating things, no matter what those things end up being?
What a terrible generalization. As I pointed out with the above user, you're being exactly what you're protesting against. As I said, a practice in humility.
For example, he is doing a review of Final Fantasy 10 right now. Personally, I find enjoyment in the game but I can sit down and watch it be riffed because I understand its problems, and its problems amuse me as much as its good traits. He has also pointed out mistakes and problems I missed, and if anything it has caused me to enjoy it more. Understanding and being able to punch it for its problems is amusing to me, thus the concept of riffing something.
We aren't fans of hating things. We're fans of, essentially, insult comedy and riffing. He, AVGN, Nostaglia Critic, Cinema Snob, and others have steamrolled stuff I love and hate, but it gives me an appreciation for humility of my hobbies, like, and dislikes. And, above all else, its helped me find more wrong and right in games and movies, which is personally important for me since I was to join that industry eventually.
Bandit LOAF said:
Based on the site's comments: yes. Gross, gross, gross.
Allow me to generalize you as much you are others: If I were to take this ENTIRE site and community on this and the privateer thread, I'd say you are a bunch of self righteous, arrogant assholes who can't take a joke and need a serious lesson in humility.
But, that isn't fair. It isn't fair because I have not read every thread, followed you all for 10 years, and experienced all of this with you. I have the experience of 2 threads, so it is unfair for me to generalize all of you.
Bandit LOAF said:
I can't wait to log in to the internet and find out what an unpleasant man tells me not to like today in a comically exaggerated video! It will be great! (I hope he tells us to burn our pants.. these things are driving me nuts!)
Sorry, but isn't that pretty much what you're doing here? You're calling fans of this form of stand up comedians heartless and pathetic and telling others to avoid it.
Bandit LOAF said:
It's not just riding the Woo, woo! Hate stuff! train, either. We all saw it coming, we know exactly where this sad paradigm shift towards genuine nastiness came from. Ten and fifteen years ago we were absolutely enthralled by this exact same kind of material. Folks who grew up watching Mystery Science Theater 3000 and Kevin Smith movies and reading those Star Trek Nitpicker's Guides said to themselves boy howdy, this stuff is clever and I can do it too.
What they missed was the absolute most essential part of the equation--the hard won part that made all of that stuff genuine and leaves "The Spoony Experiment" worthless... the motivation. MST3k exists because its creators loved bad movies, those Star Trek guides are a paean to the writer's favorite show... none of it is some aggressive attack strategy (or, important here, any selfish desire for celebrity).
This is proof enough to me that you have no want or desire to understand the community you are so generalizing and hating upon. Spoony, Brad Jones, and so on are well known within their own communities as being great lovers of bad movies and so on. They are well known for riffing on movies and games they legitimately enjoy. Spoony riffs on Final Fantasy all the time, but he is also expresses how much he loves the series as well (particularly the games before 7).
The irony here is that you your have missed the essential part of the equation. You're generalizing, stereotyping, and jumping to conclusions a fanbase you don't even seen to have tried to understand. The irony here is that, for all the videos of Spoony praising and destroying the WC stuff he actually makes me want to play them. All you're doing is making to want to avoid the community, which is not fair to you nor this website.
Bandit LOAF said:
It's more than all that that makes it pathetic, though--it's the fact that it exists only because it's *easy*. There's no artistry here, no hard work--point a flip cam at me and listen to me take the piss out of things no one likes in the first place? Rants that write themselves? Completely irrelevant things, too! Gee, Spoony, your criticism really saved me... I was going to spend my $7.50 to go see Wing Commander when it came out ELEVEN YEARS AGO. And then I might have picked up the DVD (or the VHS or the DivX!) for the few years after that that stores stocked it. I mean, a rant about the Wing Commander movie? Did he run out of material about how unpleasant air travel is? Ugh, ugh, ugh.
Again, I must ask why the idea that it being eleven years old gives it a get out of jail card. And, I must point out your blatant hypocrisy of praising MST3k for its heart and how they apparently loved the bad movies, yet Spoony and others are not allowed to do the same thing.
Riffing is eternal. MST realized this, and dug up older movies and lesser known movies to tear apart in good fun. While, true, spoony is much more of an insult comic than MST the general idea is still there. Fact is, it was very easy for Kevin Smith and MST to do this as well. Very small budgets, not alot of time needed, small sets, and, well, a video camera. This can apply to stand up comedy, and many other forms of comedy as well.
Bandit LOAF said:
And then it's such a cheap eyeball grab! Hey lowest common denominator, here's some easily manufactured swill you'll enjoy while loading a right menu bar full of advertisements. The whole thing screams this thinking process: those internet videos where the guy with the British accent who talks quickly and draws stick figures to review games were a hit, I can do the same thing with even less work and be popular, too! And you folks think this is all clever? That this is some brilliant original commentary? Do I need to charge my web and record myself saying it to let you know I think you're idiots?
Spoony was doing this a long while before Yahtzee. His multiple youtube accounts go back years. And, again, this type of comedy goes back well before the internet.
Bandit LOAF said:
But the worst part of all is how cool the world should be in 2010 with exactly the technology and the audience this video uses. Imagine how great this sort of... video blog (vlog? youtube?) would be if 'Spoony' were actually *interested* in any of this stuff.
2010, 2500, 1950, whatever. Comedy remains pretty much unchanged. The time, date, or technology really doesn't change the formula that has been there for as long as comedy has existed.
Also, this again shows that you have misunderstood the entire point of many of his videos, as well showing you didn't go out of your way to actually find his reviews on things he recommends and loves. Also, I fail to see how he is not "interested" when he is an admitted fan of WC, has plugged is dozens of times, and so on.
Bandit LOAF said:
We're ten years from the Wing Commander movie! That fact alone is GREAT--fans and detractors have deep, well thought out opinions now... the folks behind the movie have all moved on to different jobs and are now willing to tell their stories... mountains and mountains of making of material has been unearthed.
So, 10 years after nobody is allowed to riff the movies but they are allowed to make a documentary about it?
Bandit LOAF said:
(courtesy of actual work by people who remember how to love things).
Again, you misunderstand why a lot of these comedians exist.
Bandit LOAF said:
How much better would a little 'The Wing Commander Movie: What Went Wrong?' documentary be than some semiconscious angry man yelling at a FlipCam be?
Using your own points... terrible? The basis of most of the arguments on this page seem to be that, on the principle that it is old, outdated, and nobody cares. Really, who is going to care about a documentary for it by this pages logic? Its 10 years old. Anything that can be said will be dust in a sandstorm according to the opposing logic.
Bandit LOAF said:
Read the original scripts and compare them to what's on the screen. Interview Chris Roberts about how he feels about the movie, about why he made the choices he did. Want to bitch about the ship designs? How much more effective and *genuine* would that be if you were showing off the original concept art of WC1-style Rapiers that we've found instead of prancing to attract morons?
Thanks for calling us morons. You make a great case for your argument.
Again, I fail to see why anybody would care since you you all have already given plenty of opinion on why nobody would.
Bandit LOAF said:
Internet 2.0 should be letting us do all that stuff (and before you say it, I sure as hell feel I've done my part in making the resources available and I'm available at any time to work on any project like this)... but that would take hard work and so instead it's just this cynical, insubstantial mess... and that's wrong.
I don't know why 2010 makes the world any different than yesteryear. I also don't understand why your contribution to an old game is any better than his. Again, by this page's logic, nobody cares about the movie or games anymore since 10 years has passed and anyone that does is a moron.
Frankly, the internet does allow that to happen. It allows Spoony to riff something, and it allows you to hypocritically rant about how ranting is wrong. If you want to go make a difference for your community, then stop sitting around and go do it. Get e-mails, phone numbers, etc of the people who made the movie and create the documentary. Be the change you want in the world, but no matter what you do this form of comedy has, and will continue to exist.
Spoony has a community built because people like him. He does what he is essentially hired to do because he is a stand up comedian, and like any comedian he makes a living entertaining people with his brand of comedy. You know, I don't like Larry the Cable Guy but I'm not going to call him and his fans the end of humanity and morons; I'm going to respectfully disagree with their choice of entertainment.
If entire businesses can exist entirely within the internet, then so can stand up comedy.
----------------
Highball said:
Here's my take on this: The guy didn't like the Wing Commander movie, and thus feels somehow compelled to spew tons of hate toward it in an attempt to sway the viewer to agree with him. This alienates the folks here who actually liked the movie despite its flaws, as this type of rant is not just a rant about something Spoony doesn't like, but more of: "I don't like this, and neither should you. Furthermore, if you don't agree with me, you're stupid. Monumentally stupid. Dumber-than-a-box-of-hair stupid. The stupid king of the stupid people of stupidland."
And I like Final Fantasy 10 despite its flaws and I can still laugh at a good beat down. It more so seems a lot of you just took it too personally.
Highball said:
It treads no new ground, has nothing to say we haven't heard before. The video itself is just a vehicle for the guy to complain, and really, what's the point? If you don't have anything new to say, why is this seen as so "hilarious" and "edgy"? It's the same stuff we've been hearing for over a decade.
Fair enough, but I must again point out that most comedy, fundamentally, sets out for nothing you've listed.
The key complaint here is not about him doing Wing Commander with his unique brand of asshole angst comedy. It's that unique brand of asshole angst comedy that actually is the big complaint - and the fact that so many people like this kind of comedy is an even bigger one. I'm not going to bother going into more detail, LOAF already did that - suffice to say, it sucks that there's so many people out there who love watching some guy rant about some random product.
And what else is most stand up comedy?
Bandit LOAF said:
In all seriousness, though, I do not mean any grand offense... if y'all love this guy, keep on loving him. There is absolutely no reason why anything I say should count. I have been exactly the same kind of huge internet jerk as he is for many years, but for a very specific fandom that I love. My opinion really should not matter to anyone who registered today to post to this thread.
Plus, lets be a little self aware--we're all being all kinds of stupid here. You've come here to go out of your way to post angry rants about how I went out of my way to post an angry rant because someone you like went out of his way to post an angry rant about something I like?
Can we just pause for a moment, appreciate that zany situation. Y'all love Spoony, we love Wing Commander and we can send angry fanboys back and forth until the end of time. Lets move to Wing Commander. That's all I really care about, at least.
I appreciate that you are willing to look us impatient, pathetic morons in the eyes
And yes, all kinds of stupid but hey... I'm just the type of person who would prefer to put up my best argument instead of being plastered as an idiot. Hypocritical, but, well, who isn't
Highball said:
It's funny, those who are yelling at or criticizing us wingnuts who did not appreciate Spoony's "review" are doing the same thing they accuse us of: getting pissed because our opinion does not match theirs. Typical innarweb knee-jerk responses. Yawn.
Hey, you started it!
So, sorry for jumping in on the mess but I at least hope I could give a fair defense compared to Truth over there. We're not all jackasses like he is, or at least we don't set out to be jackasses all the time.
And, on that note, goodbye intarnets forum I may never see again. May the Force be with you and all that jazz