skip the bull

This is interesting. I am not english native speaker, and the first time i read the word "thou" was in the game "Ultima 7", along with "thee", and "dost", but i just guessed that it was an ancient form of english. I guess i was wrong (consequence of learning a language totally on my own).
 
Rigit said:
You don't even know from what generation I come sir. Looking at it, I guess the title of the post could have been worded better. I didn't mean to offend. I said the game is flawed not because I have no knowledge of the time when the game was written, but rather because it is. I like these games and I said that. I haven't played them all I don't own most of them and I can't get wc3 to work properly. Basic elements of the game are that which I spoke. Example: You are given missiles in the game but they are all but completely pointless. All the enemy has to do is the whole ding ding ding thing, I believe that is chaff and/or flares and the missile will actually stop in flight back up and then go chase the decoy. It's like all of the money and talent went into making and producing mini-movies instead of programing. They struggled to make a truly challenging game so they made an unplayable one instead. I guess I like a bit of realism and that stuff hasn't been able to fool an American missile since the Aim9L of 30 years ago. Now we're up to the Aim9X. Again generally speaking I like these games and play them often. I'll be more careful of how I word things in the future. Some people are far more passionate about this than I.
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I usually refrain from commenting on this sort of thing, but this is just so rediculous. The AIM-9L could be fooled by the friggin sun. Are you just basing this information on other video games you've played? The biggest advantage to the AIM-9X is that it can be targeted using the pilot's helmet so that the aircraft doesn't have to be pointed toward the adversary. I can tell you, though, that no missile is 100% effective - especially one with an IR seeker. The AIM-9X is not fool proof.

If you're going to try and use 20-21st century information to support your position on why WC is flawed, at least get the historical piece to your argument accurate.

On another note, does anyone know the informal word for you, plural? And I think the Bible might be a reason why Thou can seem to be formal. This word is certainly often associated with religion, and everyone just assumes you would use formal language to address God. Good stuff!
 
On another note, does anyone know the informal word for you, plural?
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You is the formal *and* the plural, not necessarily both at the same time. I don't think these languages have separate plural personal pronouns.

And I think the Bible might be a reason why Thou can seem to be formal. This word is certainly often associated with religion, and everyone just assumes you would use formal language to address God. Good stuff!
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That's possible, but I think it's ascribing a bit more credit to the average person's subconscious than I would. :) More likely it's the fact that you only encounter it in "old" writing (specifically, the bible and Shakespeare) which we automatically assume is formal and especially fancy (and of course it isn't, Shakespeare's plays weren't for the elite and the bible is supposed to be a very personal document).
 
Also pretty frequently in the Bible, God is addressed on a "first name" basis in the Old Testament, as anytime (especially in the King James Version) you see "the LORD" (Lord in all capitals, though ORD might be in smaller type than the L), it was the ineffable name of God in the Hebrew (the tetragrammaton, YHVH or JHWH or however you believe it should be transcribed).

Calling God by name rather than Adonai or some other honorific title shows a good degree of familiarity I think.
 
When I read "Skip the bull" I thought it was a schoolyard game.

Also, is it just me or does the "old English" just sound better?
 
Another interesting thread. Nice :)

The English language always seemed to be very simple to me in that case.
In German there are all of these forms y'all (great word :D) know only of Shakespeare-english or the bible.
There are some advantages, but also some disadvantages.

For example: When you take to a policeman in the US, you say "you" to him, just like you were talking to your mother or a freind of yours. In Germany you don't. You use "Sie" instead of "Du", and you talk some kind of plural form.

Of course, there is no problem with the policeman, you don't even have to think about it, but telling somebody he can use "Du" when speaking with you is the same thing like asking him if he wants to be a friend of yours. So it is something personal. I know people for 20 years but I would never say "Du" to them. Especially people who are older or somebody important.

English lacks this feature a bit, it's a pity to some degree. But there is a huge advantage: You can never get into a situation where you have to think about what to say.
Another example: You are in a discussion about something, for example in some of those talk-shows on TV. There is a policeman, a congressman, the talkmaster, your friend and you.
Now you would say "Sie" to your friend, although you normally would say "Du". It becomes complex because it changes the whole structure of your sentences and your speech pattern. And you are so used to say "Du" to your friend that you automatically switch over sometimes. That can be sort of annoying in a discussion.

And with the plural thing: You have the same problem in German when you are standing in front of 100 congressmen and want to adress only one of them. Because "Sie" is the formal plural form AND singular form. :)
 
Aginor said:
Of course, there is no problem with the policeman, you don't even have to think about it, but telling somebody he can use "Du" when speaking with you is the same thing like asking him if he wants to be a friend of yours. So it is something personal. I know people for 20 years but I would never say "Du" to them. Especially people who are older or somebody important.
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I took German, Spanish and Arabic through college, and this is the kind of cultural fact that is difficult to pick up from a professor or a textbook. As a native English speaker, I had trouble with these concepts initially. I always wondered how seriously native speakers actually would take the concept of formality in the modern world.

Of course, there was some information - for example, textbooks would point out that a different form of the word 'you' would be used with a parent versus a friend. What I find interesting here, however, is the idea of basically asking someone to be a friend or implying a new friendship exists just by switching the formality of the word in question. Thanks for the information!
 
Brown and proud said:
If I may ask Master Loaf, who if anyone don't you hate?
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I already covered that joke:

Max Gene said:
@LOAF- so after we cross out the double negatives, we get that you hate nice people but all the people you hate are stupid, horrible people? That one took me a minute of confusion... stupidly enough.
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And then we were given fair warning to not continue with it:

AD said:
Now, everyone else, cut the crap and we'll try and answer the technical aspect of this issue (a warning in case you - generic you - happen to be dense enough to think this issue needs pressing).
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No, I'll answer that question.

I like intelligent people who are happy about what they're theoretically fans of. Ever try to like Star Trek on the internet? It's absolutely and completely impossible - every message board is a bunch of angry disaffected jerks trying to prove that they're the angriest and most disaffected of the bunch. The Wing Commander community will be that over my dead body.

That's one of the reasons I like going to DragonCon each year so much - you meet people who (shock of shocks) don't hate whatever they like. It's amazing, refreshing and so forth and so on. This drudgery is... it's just soul crushing. I feel so depressed seeing this thread. Ptth, this game is awful and everything about it is stupid but I've deigned to attempt to play it. C'mere a minute!

I also like foxy ladies, particle physicists and Kevin J Anderson.
 
Bandit LOAF said:
I also like foxy ladies, particle physicists and Kevin J Anderson.
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So, LOAF - is this new particle accelerator going to kill us all in a new, slowly growing giant singularity?? Or are we going to discover the 8th dimension? :D

I'm interested to learn more about DragonCon. I've never been, but have read alot about it on this forum and others... Trouble is, I really don't know anyone who would go with me, so that inevitably puts a damper on the whole idea.
 
Bandit LOAF said:
I like intelligent people who are happy about what they're theoretically fans of. Ever try to like Star Trek on the internet? It's absolutely and completely impossible - every message board is a bunch of angry disaffected jerks trying to prove that they're the angriest and most disaffected of the bunch.
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I think I get what you mean. I like Cobra right, but just me I would have focused less on her hatred of Kilrathi, as understandable as it is. That doesn't mean I'm going to cut it and cut it and cut it like some might.

ELTEE said:
I'm interested to learn more about DragonCon.
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Trek convention for WC freaks. They dress up in costume and they bring in the game's actors and designers...great fun.
 
ELTEE said:
I'm interested to learn more about DragonCon. I've never been, but have read alot about it on this forum and others... Trouble is, I really don't know anyone who would go with me, so that inevitably puts a damper on the whole idea.
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The question isn't really "what does Dragoncon have?" as much as "what doesn't Dragoncon have?". It's not as massively ginormous as the San Diego Comic Con (100K+ visitors), but if it's SF, fantasy, or RL science, you're likely find it at D*C.

It doesn't get much traffic nowadays, but we do have a Dragoncon subforum here, where there's a lot more detail if you set the display to show stuff back to the beginning of the forum.

Click the shiney link. You know you want to...
 
I think I get what you mean. I like Cobra right, but just me I would have focused less on her hatred of Kilrathi, as understandable as it is. That doesn't mean I'm going to cut it and cut it and cut it like some might.
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I'm not sure Cobra exists as a character outside of her hatred for the Kilrathi -- I don't think I can remember a single conversation where that wasn't the point she was making.

Trek convention for WC freaks. They dress up in costume and they bring in the game's actors and designers...great fun.
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It actually doesn't really have much to do with Wing Commander, other than that we're usually there. It's a general sci-fi convention, so it has tens of thousands of fans from just about anything under the sun.

In the past we've tried to kind of promote the cause -- but I think ultimately it's a lot cooler as a social thing, a time to get together with the rest of the squadron and hang out like ordinary humans.

Anyway, we're planning for 2009! Stop by #WingNut, get to know the regular gang and so forth.
 
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