Self Sustained Power?

I think the goal here is a fundamental understanding of how energy works.

A closed and isolated system has a certain amount of energy, and nothing can increase the amount of energy in that system. It's like if you put 3 gallons of water in a watertight tank. If you open the tank up again 3 months later there will still be 3 gallons of water.

The best way to preserve the amount of energy in a system is to simply not run the system, because once you start the system, there will be entropy (energy unavailable to do work) as things like friction and electrical resistance turn the energy in the system into heat. The longer the system runs, the more entropy increases until finally there is no more energy left to do work and the system stops. The only way to increase the efficiency of the system is to reduce the number of components that cause entropy.

That's really all one needs to know to understand that a perpetual machine is impossible by our understanding of physics. You can experiment if you want to, but you might find that you wasted your time.
 
Whats your problem Frosty? You had nothing to add but criticism and what Andrewas had already said. In essence beating a dead horse. You piss me off because not only did you beat the horse to death, you raped it afterward and continue to do so. Why is beyond me.... I understand the laws of thermo dynamics. The one person that did offer the slightest bit of encouragement you had to rip apart. Some people are jerks by nature....
I'd love to take my demo saw and turn your car into a convertible. :)

Yes I was told it wasn't possible. I told you I didn't care if it was possible. It was something I just wanted to try. Yes I was fucking around. So what? It's fun to build stuff and tinker around to see what you can do. I had no far flung expectations of making this thing run forever. If anything I wanted to increase the amount of run time I got off the system, if only by a small percentage. Its like ripping a cars engine apart to work on it. Yeah it's easier to take it to the shop and let someone else do all the work, but it's more fun and challenging to do it ones self simply for the learning experience and the fun. I have a gas powered generator. However the simple act of building something and learning from doing so was much more fun. I really hope you understand.

I only posted here to ask if there were ways to make the system more efficient. No one offered advice on what kind of alternators or motors to use. Or what size pulleys or belts. So in essence posting here was a waste of time since no one offered any advice other then not to bother.

So I went on the web and looked up alternator specs and motor specifications. In the end the guy at the local hardware store was of more help with the pulleys, what gage copper wire to use and such. I ended up using my other 3000 watt inverter which has two battery connections. I ran two separate alternators to a single motor and two batteries. The two alternators in turn charged each battery working off a single motor.

Yes it's simple math as I found out. The biggest problem I had was finding the right motor and pulley system to keep the alternators running at high enough RPM but not so fast that the alternator would be running all out; which will greatly shorten the life of the alternator.

After finishing welding the brackets for the alternators and motor I tried it out. This time while working on a friends truck patching a whole in his frame. I ran my 20 amp MIG welder and went to town welding scrap pieces of metal, running down batteries to the point where the inverter shuts itself down. Runtime was about 25 minutes with just the batteries connected to the inverter. After I plugged the motor hooked to the contraption to the house outlet and let the batteries charge. I then plugged the motor into the inverter and started welding again. It nearly doubled the runtime of the inverter. That was using a high current draw however.
I then recharged the batteries again and proceeded to run a Motabo angle grinder which uses 8amps/900 watts along with a charging two Milwaukee 28v battery packs and a radio to listen to music along with a 75w lead light. After about 40 minutes the 28v batteries where charged and shortly after we were done with the grinding. The inverter was still running strong. I plugged the welder in again and went over some spots that were missed or looked rough and ground down cleaned to be sure. We spent a few more hours with the radio plugged in listening to music by a bomb fire and had a few beers.
I have to note that when working with the grinder and welder they were not constantly being used. You start/stop allot with welding to check the weld and clean to make sure the weld is good.

Oddly enough this was a successful experiment. And I found that as long as there wasn't a constant high voltage draw off the system the alternators where able to sustain the inverter and the motor that was plugged into it.
It's not perpetual motion but it's what I was hoping for.

I you guys even care I can post pictures (not drawings) of the finished project.
My next project is to turn a lawn-mower and alternator into a electric generator. This is way more doable. And yes I have a gas powered generator already but it's the fun of building something yourself and seeing it work...and sometimes blow up.

All the best,
Clayton
 
Frosty is getting you the Privateer 3 source code, Deadman is complaining because people made fun of his plans to break the laws of physics. It wasn't even close.
 
Deadman_ny said:
I see what you mean Andrewas. And you make a very good point.

As for the type of battery used Frosty. Aside from when I bought those batteries from the junk yard I only use deep cycle Marine batteries in my cars. Since as you said a typical battery would simply be ruined after continued draw down and recharge (zero point). Even with the best battery charger out there. Marine batteries IMHO are much more reliable in the weather conditions of upstate New York though they can cost a little more.

Most jobs I used my gas powered generator. But the reason I invested in 3,000 watt inverters was it wasn't worth the trouble allot of times to lug a large generator around when a power supply was only needed for short periods such as using a gas powered demolition saw to cut a concrete slab and then the 30 minutes it would take to use an electric jackhammer to break it out for trenching. Or when putting modular homes together. Using an electric impact gun to take the tongue, tires, and axles off or put them on. In cases like that you don't have to leave the truck running since the draw off the battery isn't as great.

The noise factor from the gas generator is there too. My generators are great for long term use since 5 gallons would last 12 hours or so depending on draw. But as I said before if it was a long term job I would bring a gas generator along with a tool trailer since leaving a car running is very inefficient and it's added wear and tear on your vehicle.

It's been rattling inside my head for some time now and I was curios if t was at all possible. Not for long term use mind you but for simple things as camping and small jobs. I have talked to truck drivers and they have told me that inverters can be very useful. My second inverter I bought at truck stop. Those are tractor trailers however. Solar panels I've seen can charge the system, but that's not meant for constant use since you have to give the panels time to charge the batteries. My friend uses a similar solar/inverter system at his cabin for lights. But the energy requirements of running a few light bulbs and equipment that draws several amps... He gets allot more time off of his system for obvious reasons.

I guess the question now is if the motor draw was small enough and the pulley's sized rite would the time of use for the inverter be increased? My "thinking" was this Andrewas; all the lights and ignition systems on a car run mainly off the alternator and not the battery. Aside from the the initial crank needed for the starter. The alternator supplies enough power to run the electronics and keep the battery charged at the same time, but the engine is an external power source. We've all jumped someone with a dead battery (with 3 sisters I've done this a bit) and you can hear your engines idle change to provide more torque to the alternator when you connect the cables. So the motor, no matter how well geared to the alternator would have to be working hard and drawing power from the inverter and in turn the battery/batteries to sustain it's own load let alone a second or third load on the inverter and in turn the battery. So the alternators output would have to have a high enough output to sustain this alone but because there isn't an external the battery would eventually lose voltage even if just powering the motor/alternator. There would be a steady drop in the initial power source regardless until the voltage drooped enough where the entire system failed. Once the battery amps/volts drops below what is required to start a car is met the inverter will turn off. Even if the alternator is able to sustain this minimal level any additional load would cause failure.

Makes sense but would this system increase the available run time of the inverter at least? Since the alternator would be able to (in theory) supply some volts/amps to sustain the system and instead of just drawing directly off the battery the decline of power wouldn't be nearly as sudden.
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Well I do have similar opinions about solar power..It is effective but not constant..Even I dont prefer it..
 
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