Rapier IV?

[Ijuin]

Originally posted by Delance
The Tigershark is a "light attack craft". What's your point?

Well, my point was that the Vindicator, like the Sabre, is on the heavy" end--its function as a fighter-bomber means it is slower than most non-bombers but has more armor and missiles. On the other hand, the Rapier is made to take on faster craft, at the expense of anti-capship power (unless Quatro and company are planning to give the Rapier some light torps, that is.).

Yes, it would be a nice combo. In fact, the Vindicator is greatly superior to the Scimitar or the Epee. And it's also better, arguably, than the Hellcat or the Tigershark.

The Hellcat and Scimitar purists would disagree with you, but I would agree--the Vindicator would be an excellent light bomber.

Hey! Let's not downgrade the turn rate. The Scim was a bad and slugish ship on WC1. The Vindicator had a decent turn rate on WC4. And Pliers was able to boost either armor or speed, so let's put this improvements on the other vindicators.

Well actually I was referring to the turn rate that the Scimitar had in UE1, which was better than that of the Grathra and Avenger, but still less than the fast fighters that you flew. The Vindicator should feel a little bit sluggish, but not slow-as-a-snail like the WCP Devastator.

In the tradition of the BW, the Vind should have 6 DFs and 4Hs and 2 IRs plus 4 Lt Torps for the "bomber" version and 4 DFs, 8Hs and 4 IRs for the "fighter" version.

Too strong. I'd make it 4 DF/4 HS/2 IR/4 LT and 2 DF/6 HS/2 IR instead.

And since everyone have tachyons now, why not give it 2 normal tachyons and 2 mass drivers/viper cannons? It would be neat.

2 Tachyon/2 Viper would be way too powerful. Perhaps 2 Laser/2 Viper instead. As for giving it 2 Tachyon/2 Mass Driver, that would make the Vindicator be too much like the Grathra.

As for the Banshee: upgrade one set of lasers to viper or MD, it needs it.

Well, that's what the dual Stormfire cannons are for, right? But seriously, 2 Laser/2 Ion would be cool.

 

[Quarto]

Originally posted by Ijuin
I am afraid that the distinction escapes me. Anyway, I was trying to say that I consider the Rapier to be more capable of handling fast, agile opponents in comparison to the Vindicator.

Basically, the Rapier IV is half-way between an ordinary fighter like the Banshee, and an attack ship like the Vindicator. In a way, it fills in the niche that the Scimitar currently holds - an attack ship with a smaller anti-capship payload than normal attack ships, but with better dogfighting capabilities. So, it's not really optimised for anything.

 

[Viper61]

Originally posted by Ijuin
2 Tachyon/2 Viper would be way too powerful. Perhaps 2 Laser/2 Viper instead. As for giving it 2 Tachyon/2 Mass Driver, that would make the Vindicator be too much like the Grathra.

I liked the armament it had in WCIV (except for the little crappy turret), I don't see any reason to change it (stormfires ruled), unless you are mothballing the Scim. then you need something else with Viper Guns.

C-ya

 

[WildWeasel]

Technically, they'd be re-mothballing the Scimitar.

 

[Ijuin]

Originally posted by Viper61
I liked the armament it had in WCIV (except for the little crappy turret), I don't see any reason to change it (stormfires ruled), unless you are mothballing the Scim. then you need something else with Viper Guns.

C-ya

Yeah, other than making the Stormfire guns into the UE style Heavy Stormfire guns (I reccommend dual Heavy Stormfires, 400 rounds total, same as the Banshee had in UE1), and upping the missile count from 6 missiles/3 torps to 4 DF/4 IR/4 Lt. torp or something similar, I want to pretty much keep the stats that it had in WC4. That would make it a match for the Grathra (having slightly more speed and agility but less armor).

 

[Delance]

Originally posted by Ijuin
Well actually I was referring to the turn rate that the Scimitar had in UE1, which was better than that of the Grathra and Avenger, but still less than the fast fighters that you flew. The Vindicator should feel a little bit sluggish, but not slow-as-a-snail like the WCP Devastator.

Regardless of any other considerations, the Vindicator should BETTER turn rate than an ancient ship like the scimitar. Confed abandoned the scimitar on WC1 SM2. The Vindicator is a ship the UBW is manufacturing on WC4.

Originally posted by Quarto
Basically, the Rapier IV is half-way between an ordinary fighter like the Banshee, and an attack ship like the Vindicator. In a way, it fills in the niche that the Scimitar currently holds - an attack ship with a smaller anti-capship payload than normal attack ships, but with better dogfighting capabilities. So, it's not really optimised for anything.

It makes perfect sense that the UBW militia should have multi-role craft. On WC4, for example, 2/3 of their 3 main ships carried torpedoes - on an era where torpedoes aren't mandatory to anti-capship strikes!

Since they can run really short on fighters, it is ideal that even a small force can do both jobs: as a fighter and as a bomber. So even the UBW's most powerful bomber, the avenger, can fight as a heavy fighter.

 

[BattleDog]

Suggested Vind stats:

Armerment:

2 Tachyon, the lasers are pretty useless so standard Tachyons are in order.

2 Laser, total of 176 damage per salvo, which is still QUITE moderate.

4IR
4FF
4HS
4 Lt Torp

Speed: 400 (perfectly respecable for a heavy fighter.)

burner: 1100 (Absolutly fine for dog fighting)

Y/P/R 55dps

rate of change: 180, that way you don't get another Scim, looks nifty on paper, wades in combat.

Armor: 220

Shield: 300

 

[BattleDog]

Also, about the Scim, Delance, remember the origional Scim had Y/P/R 35/45/35 IIRC.

 

[Ijuin]

Those stats look pretty good to me, BattleDog, although I would go with 4 DF/4 HS/4 IR/4 LT instead of 4 HS/4 IR/4 FF/4 LT.

 

[Quarto]

Originally posted by Delance
Regardless of any other considerations, the Vindicator should BETTER turn rate than an ancient ship like the scimitar. Confed abandoned the scimitar on WC1 SM2. The Vindicator is a ship the UBW is manufacturing on WC4.

Who said anything about manufacturing, or about the Vindicator not being ancient? For all we know, the Vindicator could be older than the Scimitar. That's not to say that I think it is older, but nonetheless you must keep in mind that with no evidence in either direction, common sense would lead us to assume that the Vindicator is fairly old .

 

[BattleDog]

Well thats a mater of preferance, which is the floor in the engine.