Pretentious Matrix Crap

[Aplha 1-1]

Yeah the showdown between Neo and Smith started out good but quickly turned into a flashy SFX showoff. Half expected Smith to shout out "curse you goku!" halfway through.

 

[LeHah]

Yeah the showdown between Neo and Smith started out good but quickly turned into a flashy SFX showoff.

As opposed to, you know, the previous two movies or the 100 minutes prior to that one event. (Idiot)

 

[Mjr. Whoopass]

I have long thought that you're meerly a puppet for one of the mods as a joke against internet stupidity. You've just cemented yourself as evidence in that conspiracy.

Are you saying that because you thought the action scene in the third Matrix was bad, or because I didn't know the official title of the robot tanks that the humans were fighting with? In either case I'm afraid I don't see a connection between my personal opinions on what makes the movie enjoyable and/or lack of knowledge or desire to look up the names of Matrix vehicles as being "concrete" (pun intended) evidence of being "a puppet for a mod as a joke against internet stupidity."

I'm trying to be nice here because I'm not sure if you wrote that in an attempt to be funny or because you're very depressed and needed an outlet for your sad feelings. If you were trying to be funny, I salute you for the attempt- it was at least worth a try. Perhaps it would be funnier if you made a better connection with your analogies. For instance: "a puppet for one of the mods"=??? .. Is my opinion of this movie somehow related to a Wing Commander mod? If so, letting me know which one and how it's related could be appropriate since it's by no means clear how this is so. If you're depressed, at least by acknowledging it you can begin the healing process.

 

[cff]

Yeah the showdown between Neo and Smith started out good but quickly turned into a flashy SFX showoff. Half expected Smith to shout out "curse you goku!" halfway through.

Its not only you. That end fight reminded more of Dragonball Z then of Matrix.

 

[Edfilho]

Yeah, the final battle was utter DBZ bitchslapping crap. And the hundred smiths battle in he 2nd movie was utter mediocre xbox game cutscene crap. It looks absolutelly fake. But the highway part is excellent.

I'm not going into the nerdy whining like the walkers reloading with carts pushed by child labour...

 

[LeHah]

Are you saying that because you thought the action scene in the third Matrix was bad, or because I didn't know the official title of the robot tanks that the humans were fighting with?

One thing has absolutely nothing to do with the other. Its just a matter of luck that you showed your colors like that in a thread of this topic. Nothing more.

In either case I'm afraid I don't see a connection between my personal opinions on what makes the movie enjoyable and/or lack of knowledge or desire to look up the names of Matrix vehicles

And I don't see how knowing or not knowing the names of the crafts in The Matrix would have any effect toward me thinking you're a joke.

I'm trying to be nice here because I'm not sure if you wrote that in an attempt to be funny or because you're very depressed and needed an outlet for your sad feelings.

I am very depressed. But that has nothing to do with this. You bring great joy and feelings of happiness to my life. Most people have to shell out a great deal of money for comedy of this calibur. I get it for free. Thank you, interweb!

Its not only you. That end fight reminded more of Dragonball Z then of Matrix.

I hate to say this but - isn't that the point? You can't be telling me it was accidental it looked so similar to that series.

And the hundred smiths battle in he 2nd movie was utter mediocre xbox game cutscene crap.

As opposed to, you know, cloning Hugo Weaving 100 times to achieve less of a CGI sequence? Get real. If you're expecting things like 1 against 100 people fights or people swinging from skyscrapers to look real, you got something wrong in your noggin.

 

[Aplha 1-1]

As opposed to, you know, cloning Hugo Weaving 100 times to achieve less of a CGI sequence? Get real. If you're expecting things like 1 against 100 people fights or people swinging from skyscrapers to look real, you got something wrong in your noggin.

As opposed to taking a good concept and pushing it too far, like the straw that broke the donkey's back.

I hate to say this but - isn't that the point? You can't be telling me it was accidental it looked so similar to that series.

No, but it was a really bad idea to make it so similar to a childrens series. Just like your previous post was a bad idea. Lets not risk starting any flaming.

 

[LeHah]

As opposed to taking a good concept and pushing it too far, like the straw that broke the donkey's back.

"The reasonable man adjusts himself to fit the world. The unreasonable man adjusts the world to fit himself. Thusly, all progress depends on the unreasonable man."

That is to say - in this case - effects that are dated like TRON, or The Last Starfighter or When Worlds Collide are still being heralded as important moments in cinema because of their attempts, however dated. The same stands for this.

Sometimes its not if you win or lose - but the attempt that pushes things forward.

No, but it was a really bad idea to make it so similar to a childrens series. Just like your previous post was a bad idea. Lets not risk starting any flaming.

Do not tell me what is and is not a good idea or risk being called a gutless cocksucker and forever being refered to as such there-on. You are not the judge of all there is, little man, nor am I. Know your place in your opinion on the internet as it is - as worthless as everyone else thats not an admin or mod.

 

[cff]

I hate to say this but - isn't that the point? You can't be telling me it was accidental it looked so similar to that series.

Ok, lets for a moment assume it was deliberately. So then the question is WHY?! I don't see how this would be fitting in any way. What does DBZ have that warrants a homage on it in Matrix 3?

 

[Aplha 1-1]

Don't ask, he'll just bust out some of his DBZ hentai and use it as his argument.

 

[LeHah]

Ok, lets for a moment assume it was deliberately. So then the question is WHY?!

I can't answer that, so I won't presume to rattle off some nonsense or opinion as fact.

What does DBZ have that warrants a homage on it in Matrix 3?

Well, you can say the same about William Gibson novels or kung-fu movies. I mean, are you aware of how blatant some of the stuff they borrowed is (Jacking in to cyberspace? Digital kungfu? A city called Zion? Those were elements of Gibson's Neuromancer from back in 1980.)

Don't ask, he'll just bust out some of his DBZ hentai and use it as his argument.

Oh noes, yuo aer to wittay four me! What evar shal I do?!?!

Get the heck out of here. You're only setting yourself up to look bad, chump.

 

[Edfilho]

And the hundred smiths battle in he 2nd movie was utter mediocre xbox game cutscene crap.

As opposed to, you know, cloning Hugo Weaving 100 times to achieve less of a CGI sequence? Get real. If you're expecting things like 1 against 100 people fights or people swinging from skyscrapers to look real, you got something wrong in your noggin.

Yeah, stupid me, why would anybody want the FX in a movie to look good.

I'm not complaining about using CG, I'm complaining about crappy CG. It was really, really fake. Neo looked like Woody from Toy Story (and while woody was a toy, neo is supposed to look like a human being, even inside the matrix). They could probably do better than that even with the tech they had. But someone probably ok'ed that scene because they were running late or something.

 

[LeHah]

Yeah, stupid me, why would anybody want the FX in a movie to look good.

But then you're complaining about ALL SFX because they all get dated at some point. The fact that you don't like them now is moot - if they were the best looking in 2003 won't hold any water by the time 2007 rolls around. Time is a moot thing in this case.

I'm complaining about crappy CG. It was really, really fake.

Because you could do better? Or because you can name another project thats created a better CG effect using the same scenario? Or because the Matrix sequels bankrupted a number of Special Effects houses because of their heavy use?

I mean, seriously, they poured an entire seperate movie-sized budget into shooting the Burly Brawl sequence. And obviously I'm not trying to change your mind if you liked it or not - but get serious.

They could probably do better than that even with the tech they had.

Don't you think that if they could've, they would have?

But someone probably ok'ed that scene because they were running late or something.

Yeah, because 237 million dollars isn't anything of an investment you need to turn around on time.

 

[Edfilho]

But then you're complaining about ALL SFX because they all get dated at some point. The fact that you don't like them now is moot - if they were the best looking in 2003 won't hold any water by the time 2007 rolls around. Time is a moot thing in this case.

I'd agree with your point but I found the sequence crappy as I saw it on worldwide opening night, so, no, you're perfectly wrong in your aplication of the reasonable principle on this situation.

Because you could do better? Or because you can name another project thats created a better CG effect using the same scenario? Or because the Matrix sequels bankrupted a number of Special Effects houses because of their heavy use?

because it looked inferior to other digital characters. Because other scenes in this movie and other movies didn't look as plastic. And the "could you do better" point is really junior high quality, I sincerely expect more of you.

I mean, seriously, they poured an entire seperate movie-sized budget into shooting the Burly Brawl sequence. And obviously I'm not trying to change your mind if you liked it or not - but get serious.

i usually avoid the "other people agree with me" argument, but you seem to be under the impression that I'm the only nutjob who disliked the Fx on that sequence... which I'm not. I read several reviews and etc. stating the same thing.

Don't you think that if they could've, they would have?

sure. but the reason that they couldn't make it better is not technological, it is probably in a producer/cost/time factor.

Yeah, because 237 million dollars isn't anything of an investment you need to turn around on time.

I didn't say it wasn't the right decision to just let it stay that way... maybe they really couldn't go on improving it forever. Maybe they really didn't get the chance to make it as good as it could. but that won't change my perception of the scene as looking fake, because it damn right does.

And I do question the wisdom of pulling a DBZ on the last fight, even if it was proposital. Because IMO, dbz bitchslapping looks really bad.

 

[LeHah]

I'd agree with your point but I found the sequence crappy as I saw it on worldwide opening night, so, no, you're perfectly wrong in your aplication of the reasonable principle on this situation.

I don't think seeing the movie on opening night lends any extra weight to your arguement, Ed.

because it looked inferior to other digital characters. Because other scenes in this movie and other movies didn't look as plastic. And the "could you do better" point is really junior high quality, I sincerely expect more of you.

I'll give you the second point, definitely. However, if you're going to bitch about the Burley Brawl - then we should just mention the entire second half of Attack Of The Clones and be done with it.

The "could you do better" point wasnt meant to be read as middle school pranks - but the fact remains that neither of us have large special effect houses nor can we produce anything of that calibur. If you've ever gone to the movies and never seen bad special effects, you don't go to the movies enough.

i usually avoid the "other people agree with me" argument, but you seem to be under the impression that I'm the only nutjob who disliked the Fx on that sequence

That doesn't mean anything though. I happen to dislike pears - but the fact that many other people dislike pears does not make me a more important pear hater.

I read several reviews and etc. stating the same thing.

And I read a few that said Reloaded was better than the other two movies. Whats your point?

sure. but the reason that they couldn't make it better is not technological, it is probably in a producer/cost/time factor.

Well, heres the thing. They have a giant budget for a massive pair of movies - if they waited another year to render better effects - thats another year of spening craploads of money. While you may not like the final special effects, the fact of the matter is it fit with the budget and time constraints without going so immensely overbudget and making the movie bomb no matter how much income it made.

Maybe they really didn't get the chance to make it as good as it could. but that won't change my perception of the scene as looking fake, because it damn right does.

You're not the only one to say this to me - but I still think that the skeletons in Jason And The Argonauts look 100 times better than any CG I've ever seen. Those people who liked CG seem to think I'm crazy but whatever.

And I do question the wisdom of pulling a DBZ on the last fight, even if it was proposital. Because IMO, dbz bitchslapping looks really bad.

I think parts of the final fight looked great but other parts were... static. It may interest you that the Matrix game due out in November has a different ending to the series, written by the Wachowskis after they considered that the end of Revolutions would be anticlimactic to a video game.

 

[AD]

I found the CGi in reloaded/revolutions to be a mixed bag. While some of it was poor yet passable(the burly brawl for example), other sequences like the siege of zion in revolutions were some of the most convicing cgi sequences I've ever seen. Especially when they are married with the live action footage.

You're not the only one to say this to me - but I still think that the skeletons in Jason And The Argonauts look 100 times better than any CG I've ever seen. Those people who liked CG seem to think I'm crazy but whatever.

Up until only some of the most very recent sci-fi stuff I've always prefered the old model photography. The amount of detail and such combined with some really neat in-camera tricks have, for year, provided some of the best (effective) and most convincing sequences in cinema. For example, most of the star trek movies, Alien / Aliens, (while perhaps not as fluid as the newer trilogy) the original star wars movies (Ep. 4-6), 2001: a space odessy,

Even alot of scenes in non sci-fi movies that are utterly convincing aren't given a second thought yet are really models. Almost all exterior shots of planes tend to be models as well as boats/ships etc. There are rare cases where the military lets hollywood film real naval vessels but otherwise it has generally been models.

Interestingly this has led to some intersting shifts though as they are starting to combine model photography with CG which allows for a cheaper, sometimes effective combination of elements from which they produce the final shot.

 

[cff]

Well, you can say the same about William Gibson novels or kung-fu movies. I mean, are you aware of how blatant some of the stuff they borrowed is (Jacking in to cyberspace? Digital kungfu? A city called Zion? Those were elements of Gibson's Neuromancer from back in 1980.)

Well it would be quite hard to NOT borrow from Neuromancer as William Gibson pretty much invented Cyberspace in it.

 

[LeHah]

Well it would be quite hard to NOT borrow from Neuromancer as William Gibson pretty much invented Cyberspace in it.

Yet Lawnmower Man was cyberpunk without taking DIRECT NOUNS from Gibson

 

[Edfilho]

I don't think seeing the movie on opening night lends any extra weight to your arguement, Ed.

The point was that I'm not looking at the burly brawl in hindsight, I didn't like it from the start. It is not that it was cool for 2003 but carppy in 2005. Otherwise, yep, it didn't mean anything watching the movie on that particular night.

I'll give you the second point, definitely. However, if you're going to bitch about the Burley Brawl - then we should just mention the entire second half of Attack Of The Clones and be done with it.

But SW can look faker than matrix, because SW is sci-fantasy, it is absurd, fantastic, etc. The Matrix is supposed to look down-to-earth gritty C-Punk, it is supposed to look realistic... Critters and clone soldiers and droids can look like plastic. That is probably why Toys Story is about toys, because they picked the subject based on their technology. SW is actually expected to look fake, if you consider how Lucas demanded that Yoda's ears wiggled like they did in the puppet years of the OT.

But, yeah, I agree that several scenes are stupid in AotC. And the digital Yoda just plain sucks in TPM.

The "could you do better" point wasnt meant to be read as middle school pranks - but the fact remains that neither of us have large special effect houses nor can we produce anything of that calibur. If you've ever gone to the movies and never seen bad special effects, you don't go to the movies enough.

Well, I never said that the burly brawl was the single worst digital FX sequence ever, did I? sure, there is a whole universe of crappier fx. But I just expected more from those guys in that movie. Maybe you're reading too much in my silly complaint.

That doesn't mean anything though. I happen to dislike pears - but the fact that many other people dislike pears does not make me a more important pear hater.

oh, I'm well aware that I'm not important in any context.

And I read a few that said Reloaded was better than the other two movies. Whats your point?

Just that I'm not a crazy man yelling nonsense on the streets...

Well, heres the thing. They have a giant budget for a massive pair of movies - if they waited another year to render better effects - thats another year of spening craploads of money. While you may not like the final special effects, the fact of the matter is it fit with the budget and time constraints without going so immensely overbudget and making the movie bomb no matter how much income it made.

Yep, I tried to say that.

You're not the only one to say this to me - but I still think that the skeletons in Jason And The Argonauts look 100 times better than any CG I've ever seen. Those people who liked CG seem to think I'm crazy but whatever.

I really, really, really like non-digital Fx. I've yet to see a movie that has better action sequences than the Indiana Jones trilogy (sure, thare are some crappy scenes, but mos of them are indeed the best). I think that Aardman full stop motion animation features are unsurpassed even by Pixar. But I also like the way that CG removes some of the limitations intrinsecal to non digital Fx. Aardman probably could never make an underwater movie look as pretty as Finding Nemo.

I think parts of the final fight looked great but other parts were... static. It may interest you that the Matrix game due out in November has a different ending to the series, written by the Wachowskis after they considered that the end of Revolutions would be anticlimactic to a video game.

Hum. let us see... That other matrix tie in game was really bad. I wish I could just watch the cutscenes.