Political Structure of the Confederation

[Bandit LOAF]

I know this doesn't make a lot of sense, its just a feeling I get when I read the books. Also, why is it in America the hero is American and the villan is British?

Blair is from Nephele... and the villains are usually giant space cats.

An interesting question is the amount of control the President has. We don't even see him involved in the decision to declare war on the Border Worlds, or during the Nephilim invasion, if I remember correctly.

I seem to recall an original pitch for the WC4 story where Tolwyn was president...

Since the Confederation seems to be based on American democracy, I would say that the president can't declare war on his own anyway (yeah right). The senate has to do it.

I don't think it's *entirely* based on American democracy -- there doesn't seem to be an equivalent of the House of Representatives.

The wording they use in Action Stations suggests that they represent a system and not just a planet. Tolwyn says that More wanted the shipyard (or whatever it was) built in his system not on his planet. They seem to keep this up throughout.

Action Stations calls More the senator from Primus III... which would be a planet and not a system (of course, as we already pointed out, there's no difference -- you'll very, very rarely find a system with more than one inhabitable planet).

Also, I like flowery language. Doesn't bother me at all. I get more annoyed by people who yell their point of view instead of forming coherent sentences and siting examples to further their argument.

It's not an argument, though -- it's escaping an argument through pretty language.

 

[BattleDog]

Blair's a Wing Commander, though.

Ahhhhh, Bob, you show your ignorange of the British rank Structure, a Wing Commander is a Lt. Colonel, so Blair is a group Captain.

Tolwyn was always nasty and sinister, so we have the nasty sinister Brit, oh thats never been used before.

We're generally very honest, staight foward and likable people.

Loaf, if you can't cope with flowery language its fortunate we're not face to face, as I cut my typing down to a bare minimum because of my dyslexia. Face to face there is only one person I know of who can beet me in an argument, she's not speaking to me at the moment.

 

[Frosty]

Also, I like flowery language. Doesn't bother me at all. I get more annoyed by people who yell their point of view instead of forming coherent sentences and siting examples to further their argument.

Yes, because there is no middle ground between speaking like a pompous, bombastic ass and gibbering like a moron.

Ahhhhh, Bob, you show your ignorange of the British rank Structure, a Wing Commander is a Lt. Colonel, so Blair is a group Captain.

But we're dealing with the Confederation rank structure, here.

Tolwyn was always nasty and sinister, so we have the nasty sinister Brit, oh thats never been used before.

Since Tolwyn and Blair were both major heros of the Kilrathi War, they were in pretty much direct competition for the limelight. He also was the superior officer, but wasn't necessarily always treated as such, which probably pissed him off.

Loaf, if you can't cope with flowery language its fortunate we're not face to face, as I cut my typing down to a bare minimum because of my dyslexia.

I don't think an inability to make a clear point should be something one prides themself on.

 

[Ripper]

At least the Confederation kept the U.S. Constitution's Second Ammendment, unlike the Brits, who have decided to let the bad guys run roughshod over the good guys.

 

[Bandit LOAF]

Loaf, if you can't cope with flowery language its fortunate we're not face to face, as I cut my typing down to a bare minimum because of my dyslexia. Face to face there is only one person I know of who can beet me in an argument, she's not speaking to me at the moment.

I don't think you're following my objection -- my complaint is that he's using a lot of words to say *nothing*, not that he's using a lot of words to say *something*.

 

[Bob McDob]

At least the Confederation kept the U.S. Constitution's Second Ammendment, unlike the Brits, who have decided to let the bad guys run roughshod over the good guys.

Please do not turn this into an America vs. the Universe debate.

 

[MikeDean061383]

I think its worth noting, that the Articles of Confederation is this countries first constitution, and NOT the Confederacy's constitution. To the best of my knowledge that is called The Constitution of the Confederate States of America.

 

[Bob McDob]

Well, if I had to choose between the Confederation being more like pre-constitution America or the CSA, I'd have to pick the CSA, since the Articles of Confederation made for a damn near unworkable government that could barely manage thirteen states over a thousand miles, let alone several star sectors spread across hundreds of light-years.

 

[Iceblade]

I have noticed in the books and games of WC that some of the words are spelled in British. I thought these games and some of the books were made by American writers and developers.

Just some examples: centre and uuhhh! well I don't remember anymore off hand but I do have several memories of noticeing Bristish spellings.

Disclaimer: I have absolutely no problem with these spellings I am just curious as to why they are spelled as such.

 

[dextorboot]

Of course there's a middle ground. No one ever said there wasn't. I was simply stating that between the 2 extremes, I prefer one over the other.

I know it's not entirely based on American Democracy, but it's not hard to see that that is where the main influence is coming from. Hence "seems to be based."

I see what you're saying but that's not the definition of argument I'm using. More along the lines of a discussion/debate, rather than a heated argument which is entirely different.

That was the first time you've said anything about him not having a point, or not saying anything. All you've said until then was about the fact that you don't like the language he's using, not that it's hiding something else. Also, seems like he IS saying something as everyone else on the board, including you, has replied to the post. The flowery language is simply his ability to clearly articulate his point.

If that girl isn't speaking to you, does that me she's winning that argument???

 

[BattleDog]

Loaf, I get what you said but you don't get me.

It is a law of the universe that he who talks best wins, the ability to bury your opponent is bullshit is invaluable. If it didn't work we'd have straight talking politictions!

So in a face to face argument I would win simply be virtue of impressing the audiance more; since I use longer words and more complex sentances I must be more intelligant. Meanwhile since you must cut through all the crap I'm spewing you don't have enough energy left to form a worthy responce.

I win by tieing you up in red tape and befuddling your brain until belive the sky has turned green!

Referance WCIV, it would have been better if Tolwyn was the good guy and Paladin went mad.

 

[Ghost]

So in a face to face argument I would win simply be virtue of impressing the audiance more; since I use longer words and more complex sentances I must be more intelligant. Meanwhile since you must cut through all the crap I'm spewing you don't have enough energy left to form a worthy responce.
I win by tieing you up in red tape and befuddling your brain until belive the sky has turned green!

Yay!
After some months i found the reason to post this pic:

Hurrah!

 

[Frosty]

The flowery language is simply his ability to clearly articulate his point.

Flowery language is the primary symptom of not being able to clearly articulate a point.

It is a law of the universe that he who talks best wins, the ability to bury your opponent is bullshit is invaluable.

Stop being a piece of crap.

 

[Bugrof PizzAnt]

Sorry to stick my nose where it's undoubtedly not wanted, but here's a little quote you may find applicable.

"He can compress the most words into the smallest ideas of any man I ever met." Abraham Lincoln

While I haven't read this entire thread, I do disagree with your statement that, "It is a law of the universe that he who talks best wins." Usually it's something to the effect of "He who has the biggest gun wins".

 

[Delance]

Blair is from Nephele... and the villains are usually giant space cats.

And they are more like Japanese then British.

Thrakkath: "Good, Melek, another terran planet captured"
Melek: "Jolly good, Sire. Care for some tea? It's 5 halfs of 8s already"

I seem to recall an original pitch for the WC4 story where Tolwyn was president...

They could make it a sex scandal involving a GE supermodel.

I don't think it's *entirely* based on American democracy -- there doesn't seem to be an equivalent of the House of Representatives.

I agree. While it's obvious they were using lots of elements from the US - and the senate is on washington, it's quite clear it's more of a generic western democracy. All democracies, US included, have the same roots on Greece after all.

Paladin did have a lot of power, including the power to declare war. I think the parlament has much more power on Confed than on the US, at least when it comes to foregin policy.

It's not an argument, though -- it's escaping an argument through pretty language.

And we don't do that here!

 

[BattleDog]

Stop being a piece of crap.

No need to yet nasty.

I agree with you totally but the fact remains that if you use flowery language you are more likely to win, its a way of avoiding the point and whearing the enemy down.

If you can articulate a point, are right, and can use flowery language you will always win.

Look at court cases and polititions, anyone who's seen a debate knows its as much about who's right as it is about who argues better.

 

[Bob McDob]

That doesn't change the fact, though, that flowery language makes you seem pretentious as hell.

 

[TC]

No need to yet nasty.
If you can articulate a point, are right, and can use flowery language you will always win.

Except for all those people that do that and... don't win!

Look at court cases and polititions, anyone who's seen a debate knows its as much about who's right as it is about who argues better.

Arguing better is not equivilant to random flowery language, though.

If you're flowery and right it gives you a certain advantage, in a more formal setting. If you're flowery and stupid, especially in a casual setting, which tends to be rather common, it just makes you look even more stupid when people start explaining in short, logical sentences how you're wrong.

I can use flowery language with the best of them, but when it all comes down to it, you generally have to get down to basic logical statements to beat things into people's minds. Of course, I have the advantage of always being right, which makes things quite a bit easier.

 

[BattleDog]

TC, thats what I'm saying.

 

[Napoleon]

I love the anti-intellectual spirit here that anyone who uses diction and syntax over a fourth grader level is called "pompous" and is insulted over his "flowery" language. Good god men, english is comprised primarily of words you in your wall of german derived linguistic ignorance seem to consider "pompous" when in actuallity reading over the posts which you seem to have an objection to the language was the most appropriate to convey the meanings. If we all stuck to the mono and bi sylabic germanic derived english that you seem to like we would never be able to properly express any decent idea especially in the way of political science and government.

Seriously Frosty, Loaf, and anyone else expressing this opinion grow up and discuss the ideas that bob used proper language to express rather than talk about "style over substance" when in actuality his diction wasnt that high level or flowery but rather was pretty straight and to the point.

Although is NOT an advanced, flowery, or pompous word, it is pretty damned common for those of us with higher than a 6th grade reading level. None the LEast isnt exactly a flowery word either now is it, in fact it is 3 words who commonly are found in this construction with the exact definition that it was used with here

Bob your ideas, well some of them have been refuted but just by the name alone I always looked at the confederation as a government basically similar to the way i see the EU being in a few years (or the way it has been proposed by some to eventually become if you prefer this way of wording it). Basically you have the centralized government controling foreign policy, military, and money with most of the rest of governing being left to the locals. military it seems is only partially centralized even considering that there is a preponderance of militia groups mentioned it seems to me that the militia act as a homeguard or basically the standard military forced for a planet with the centralized military being much more of an offencive body, attacking enemy fleets and the like rather than existing to directly defend the worlds.