Other space combat games

Perfection may have been an exaggeration based on my bias. I do definately agree with you: the child born of X-Wing and Wing Commander would define perfection.
 
Yeah, I also agree with LOAF. That would be quite nice.
Unfortunately X-Wing's engine cannot be used for fan projects because you can't mod it that easy. (IIRC) :(
 
That's one of the silliest things I've ever heard. The X-Wing vs TIE Fighter and X-Wing Alliance game editor are very simple drag and drop editors. They make it very easy to make a very detailed mission very quickly.

In addition, editing the interface of the game is a fairly straightforward manner.

Adding opts (models) to the game is additionally a very simple matter - so simple in fact, I've managed to do it myself with nothing but free software tools off the internet (and if you've ever tried any of the free 3D Modeling programs you'd understand what I mean).

There have been more then one total conversion for the X-Wing Alliance series of games, I'm not really sure what the hang up is. Now that I'm thinking about it, it's more then possible to create cutscenes and triggers inside a room, though I believe only X-Wing alliance allows this capability.
 
Not the same stuff but i try "Star wars galaxy", trial for 14 days, a online role playing game like world of warcraft except you can go and travel in space , like privateer. I didnt go very far but space combat are more like freelancer. Ships dont look like too expensive.

I also try a second time to learn "how to play Battle cruiser millenium in 690 lessons". http://www.3000ad.com/site/free_games/ Its free. You can do all you want : land on planet, get out of the ship and walk or swimm... whitout objectives.

There is a free space game combat on http://www.freeallegiance.org/
I try it long time ago, its more arcade game if i remember
 
Aginor said:
Unfortunately X-Wing's engine cannot be used for fan projects because you can't mod it that easy. (IIRC)
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It's also very, very dated, without the benefit of the many upgrades made to both the Vision and Freespace engines over the years. I'm not sure what advantage could be gained from this, either - it might be simpler to just make a clone.

Regarding the Freespaces: One of the main things that sets them apart from the Wing Commanders and Starlancer knock-offs - and doesn't seem to be noted as much - is the amount that they rely on scripting to move the game along. It's been years since I played either game, but the memories that endure are of the "good job fending off those twelve bomber attacksohnoherecomesathirteenthwaveandsixcruisersclosinginallaround!" or "dive right through the super-battleship flak to take out the turrets so that our capital ships can jump in and hit their engines before another battleship jumps in and disables them so that you have to run a gauntlet of enemies to jump out!" (The analogy that comes to mind when typing this is some old arcade game like Robotron 2084, which I might make in more detail if I had actually ever played the real Robotron 2084 rather than freeware knock-offs.) It seems like there was a conscious decision on the part of the designers to reduce the 'formula,' such as it were, to its bare essentials and turn the game into a frenetic gauntlet of enemies. This did, I have to admit, make for some entertaining missions, but the inevitable result is that it makes the game absolutely linear. Every Wing Commander had a strong degree of interactivity in the way you progressed - even IV, with its rigidly overpowering storyline, had the defection paths and alternate missions sets. Freespace 2 only had one "accept-or-decline" mission branch, and in both games every mission is win-or-die; you don't even get the option to eject (though perhaps tellingly 2 did give you the option to skip missions after the fourth or fifth try.) It gave the game the replay value of an adventure game at a time when adventure games were on the way out, and I believe this is what prompted the designers to release both games with mission editors, hoping that the user-created content would make up for it. It did eventually, of course - five years down the line, far too late to save the franchise.

As an aside, it's funny to see Renegade mentioned in this thread, since it was one of the first games I picked up after Wing Commander and for some reason a lot of my memories of it are mixed with the Freespace demo in '98. That's a sad story, there - it had one of the most elaborate tabletop game backstories behind it (I still treasure the manual) mixed into an awkward and uninspiring space sim. I recall there was a sequel intended, but it fell through, and so did the Renegade franchise itself, dying even before FASA did. Really a shame, because it's one of the big, bold, archetypical space-opera stories and so much more could have been done with it. (It does have one direct connection with Wing Commander - David Ladyman worked on the pen-and-paper RPG.)

Ultimately, though, the one other space combat game I have any real attachment to is Independence War, mainly for how incredibly different it is from what we usually think of as "space-sims." You don't fly a fighter, you fly a corvette, and you handle it like you would a small capital ship - managing systems, tracking and firing at targets in three-sixty degrees, and Newtonian physics (which I imagine is what scared off most people.) The setting and story border on the dark, depressive part of science-fiction which I personally detest, and yet the enemies you fight are flamboyant space rogues that paint their ships yellow with graffiti. The whole thing feels strangely realistic, for what little that's worth; looking back at it, it almost feels like Battle-Capsule Apollo. And yet, there's all kinds of bizarre decisions that drag it down; after watching the ten-minute introduction you load up the game to discover that there's no music whatsoever. How does that happen? It's also not the easiest game to run on modern systems; the last time I played it was several years ago, when I had a computer primitive enough to reduce the memory cache to 400 megabytes (in retrospect, this may have been for the Glide wrapper.)

What I'd like to see in a future space game is more interactivity and more dynamicism in the way missions progress)what people sometimes call the "Metagame" and which I'll use here too because no alternatives spring to mind) and the prototype is right here. I often go back to this, thinking of how much more dynamic things could be today, instead of having to rely on scripting and mission branching. Starshatter does a little of this, but my (admittedly brief and demo-only) impression is that it flies much more like a 'serious' flight sim and isn't as immediete and engaging as a Wing Commander. Still, the idea of a truly free-roam space-sim, with serious financial backing to give it shine (and the occasional "plot mission" digression to keep it from becoming entirely too abstract) is an engaging one. The actual ship-to-ship combat system wouldn't change too much; what would change, and what the emphasis would shift to, would be the framework surrounding it, giving it an element of strategy and freedom that's usually attributed to Privateer games. In effect, instead of Wing Commander: Armada, Wing Commander: Wing Commander.
 
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Most of the other space combat games I know have already been mentioned (X-Wing series, I-War series, Starlancer series, X series), except for...

The Colony Wars series of games were a blast to play, and would be a welcome sight if it were to ever return to consoles. Decent story, and they looked fantastic at the time too.

Darklight Conflict was fun to play. It's old, but looked great at the time with its gourad shading (or whatever). Not much of a story though.

Tachyon: The Fringe is well known for including Bruce Campbell as the the lead "voice guy". Never played the game myslef though, but it MUST be fun if it includes Ash...

I've heard the Nexus: The Jupiter Incident is okay, but again I haven't had a go of it myself.
 
Jason_Ryock said:
That's one of the silliest things I've ever heard. The X-Wing vs TIE Fighter and X-Wing Alliance game editor are very simple drag and drop editors. They make it very easy to make a very detailed mission very quickly.

In addition, editing the interface of the game is a fairly straightforward manner.

Adding opts (models) to the game is additionally a very simple matter - so simple in fact, I've managed to do it myself with nothing but free software tools off the internet (and if you've ever tried any of the free 3D Modeling programs you'd understand what I mean).

There have been more then one total conversion for the X-Wing Alliance series of games, I'm not really sure what the hang up is. Now that I'm thinking about it, it's more then possible to create cutscenes and triggers inside a room, though I believe only X-Wing alliance allows this capability.
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Thanks! I didn't know that.
But, unfortunately, Bob McDob seems to be right, too. Apparently there have been no improvements in the engine for a very long time. :(
 
Nexus is strategy, if I recall well.

I also remember I liked tachyon very much. And as far as renegade is concerned, it IS a sad story indeed since the universe is now more dead then anything, but I suppose this is why I do have a special and unique feel when I fire up battle for jacob's star which still makes me love the game.

I also have darklight conflict (quite good) as well as xenocracy (quite atypical, this one).
 
Manboy said:
Tachyon: The Fringe is well known for including Bruce Campbell as the the lead "voice guy". Never played the game myslef though, but it MUST be fun if it includes Ash...
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I have played it, and it suffers greatly from a lack of replayability. For the most part the graphics are okay (aside from the toothpaste nebulas :p ), but that and Bruce Campbell's voice isn't enough to salvage the game. Neither of the plot branches are all that exciting (and the ending for the GalSpan one is somewhat depressing), and the way the game is set up once you finish all the missions from the computer (you never see an actual person beyond the box art, just computers and ships) you can't even launch from station, which sinks the Privateer-ness, so to speak, of the game.

And the multiplayer? Massively confusing Quake deathmatch, with hacking to a fare-thee-well, not helped any by NovaLogic effectively abandoning the game after the 7th patch. (Yes, 7 patches to get the game playable... and there were, IIRC, still unresolved issues.)

If you find it in the discount bin of a software store, I suppose it's not a total loss, but anything more than a few bucks is just asking for disappointment.
 
I have also played Starshatter. It is certainly difficult to master. I have had to walk away from the game several times out of frustration. What keeps bringing me back is the fact that the environment is so interactive. During missions (and even between) the computer continues to track the movements and engagements of the two principle factions. At any time, your flight of fighters or your carrier could happen upon enemies that have nothing to do with your mission. Destroying them now means you won't have to destroy them later, as ship numbers are more or less finite. It certainly is an interesting approach, and the graphics are superb as well.
 
and of course, I gleefully go back to star crusader (and it's infamous mission disk which I have searched for for 4 years), star rangers (very original) as well as the privateer like ares rising.
This one might interest you since several origin veterans were involved in the story behind it while joining imagine studios, so even if it does not have the hype of a privateer, you might consider this game as somewhat "linked" if not related.
 
and let's not forget others like retribution, forced alliance: the glarious mandate (oh, I love this one). Others less known are drift: when worlds collide, or others (slightly more arcadish but with a good plot) like halcyon sun. and for the PS1, the infamous star trek invasion (at last a star trek game with FIGHTERS).
 
Star Crusader...really fun concept..kinda clunky and hard to get into...but FUN once you get "adapted" to the interface (I still love the sneak'n'peek recon missions in the intruder)

Battle for Jacob's Star... this one had me hooked... to this day I can still hear the wingman chatter in my head "c'mon gunner...you gotta do better than that!" Not that the chatter was great, it just stuck! :p I never did figure out how to "win" that game...mission objectives were screwy and poorly explained...but the backstory was so damned engrossing!

Some really great (or, at least, ones that I remember having fun playing) games listed in this thread!
 
Bob McDob said:
What I'd like to see in a future space game is more interactivity and more dynamicism in the way missions progress)what people sometimes call the "Metagame" and which I'll use here too because no alternatives spring to mind) and the prototype is right here. I often go back to this, thinking of how much more dynamic things could be today, instead of having to rely on scripting and mission branching. Starshatter does a little of this, but my (admittedly brief and demo-only) impression is that it flies much more like a 'serious' flight sim and isn't as immediete and engaging as a Wing Commander. Still, the idea of a truly free-roam space-sim, with serious financial backing to give it shine (and the occasional "plot mission" digression to keep it from becoming entirely too abstract) is an engaging one. The actual ship-to-ship combat system wouldn't change too much; what would change, and what the emphasis would shift to, would be the framework surrounding it, giving it an element of strategy and freedom that's usually attributed to Privateer games. In effect, instead of Wing Commander: Armada, Wing Commander: Wing Commander.
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I agree, in spirit...

http://www.crius.net/zone/showpost.php?p=314123&postcount=35

This was a discussion thread that burst last summer...I had a momentary muse strike me and started writing... anyways, loved your post...
 
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I agree with everything except the MMO idea :p

What I had in mind was something rather smaller in scale... you're not a mercenary and you don't have pull with the government, you're just a low-level pilot a lone carrier ship (or maybe you wouldn't have any direct control over the carrier herself, just her flight group).

The crux of it came from playing the Dynaverse campaign for Starfleet Command too many times some summers ago. I'm quite taken with the setup, as well as turn-based strategy/real-time combat in general. The idea would be to take the strategy side of Armada (which I've always found the most entertaining part in spite of the hasty manner it was apparently thrown together in) and pull the focus back towards your carrier and her wing; spend time nurturing your pilots and your ships, and as your prestige increases, gain access to better fighters and weapons and have a better chance of affecting the outcome of the war. (Along with allied forces. One thing that always bugged me with SFC was that you could be smashing the enemy empire with your three ships but nobody would bother to help you out, which kind of made the whole 'united front' idea feel like a sham).

I guess that once you'd built up a competant enough unit you wouldn't even need to fly except when you wanted to. It'd be an interesting way to bridge the gap between the more straightforward mission structure of the main games and the freeform Privateer style that's taken over.
 
I like that idea. There's certainly a natural progression presented here. You could start off as a pilot in charge of a flight, and quickly progress through a series of events to the group commander. Then, you would be responsible for advocating the needs of your pilots and their equipment to the carrier captain and any other brass aboard. Fly when you want, or just strategize and trust your pilots to carry their objectives out.

Then, perhaps eventually you could progress farther and in different ways. Become a carrier captain involved with carrying out your orders within the fleet. Manage the airwing, the carrier supplies/stores, guiding the carrier, defense, etc. Rise to a fleet admiral.

I think that would be a unique perspective that hasn't been utilized much in the genre. We tend to see either pilot or fleet admiral perspectives...not much in between.
 
ELTEE said:
Then, perhaps eventually you could progress farther and in different ways. Become a carrier captain involved with carrying out your orders within the fleet. Manage the airwing, the carrier supplies/stores, guiding the carrier, defense, etc. Rise to a fleet admiral.
Click to expand...

Integral to your idea would be an AI that wouldn't see your fleet die if you didn't fly a particular mission..

Star Crusader, for one, did a reasonable job of patterning this...if you assigned several pilots to a secondary attack and then flew a small wing into combat, the opposition to your primary flight would be greatly reduced...the secondary wing would take some losses (maybe) but not get slaughtered...

From my fuzzy recollections, in a WC game, to lay back and not shoot at the enemy (generically, there are probably exceptions) leads to wholesale disaster as your wingmen just are NOT that good.

If you made it so that the AI was smart and capable enough to take appropriate steps along the way, you could have a LOT of fun with the CAG role or Fleet Senior Pilot role...especially if you could add an element of training and management! Hell, for training, it could be something where you have a cadet following you and doing as you do...the closer you fly to the "perfect approach" on the several repeated attempts and the more attempts you make, the better they get. When they join you as a flight officer, they'd be better (if you're good AND consistent) or not (if you weren't)...
 
Did I forget those also?

-Terminus (reminds me a lot of the ben bova novels and has great music, as well as flight newtonian physics, not unlike starshatter). A freeform game with a great plot.

And for the more arcadish ones, I know I apprecated bang: gunship elite or star rangers (evoluted star raiders like game).
 
Terminus is freaking awesome. Just about as good as non-WC stuff gets, even if the storyline feels more like an afterthought.
 
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