EU Constitution

Wow. Monty Python, popping up in an extremely political topic. This really is the off-topic board isn't it?
 
Bandit LOAF said:
Well, that's interesting.

I'd like to see someone with more knowledge of the subject -- which is to say, Quarto if he gets a chance -- explain how the EU came about so quickly. In the case of France, it has always seemed to be an anathema to anything I've ever experienced of their culture or history...
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Well, most of EU budget goes to protect French farmers, that's probably why.
 
Fruitcake said:
Well, most of EU budget goes to protect French farmers, that's probably why.
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This is a good example of why I asked for Quarto rather than some idiot.
 
cff said:
Communist? I dunno, but communist istn't exatly the term I'd first come up with when thinking about the EU. Rather the opposite - negative capitalism - reignship of multinational corporations.
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At this point, I would like to point you to what, ironically enough, is one of the best political texts I've ever read - the Crusader: No Remorse game manual.

No, really, I mean it :p. Obviously, it's just a piece of fiction, but it does an excellent job of explaining how the rule of multinational corporations is communism. Remember, communism is about the state having a monopoly - while the rule of multinational corporations is about a monopoly having a state. That's why - in spite of the silly left-wing stereotypes - proponents of free market economics do not like large corporations.
 
Jesus said:
Wow. Monty Python, popping up in an extremely political topic. This really is the off-topic board isn't it?
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This is the internet. All things on the internet have a high probability of devolving into a Python reference.
 
Quarto, you are absolutely correct. In fact, it is major corporations and rich people in general who finance socialist organizations. The only way to really secure your fortune is being friends of an interventionist government. Big corporations dislike free market, despite the disinformation claims otherwise. Check these sites:

http://www.activistcash.com/

http://www.discoverthenetwork.org/

As for Size, my copy of the Brazilian Constitution has 281 pages, including the index and connected laws. But it's growing. It was smaller when it was made in 1988.

I'm glad France decided to can the EU new constitution. Economic Unions are fine, but why would anyone in the right mind vote to be robbed of rights and property by politicians and bureaucrats?
 
Quarto said:
No, really, I mean it :p. Obviously, it's just a piece of fiction, but it does an excellent job of explaining how the rule of multinational corporations is communism. Remember, communism is about the state having a monopoly - while the rule of multinational corporations is about a monopoly having a state. That's why - in spite of the silly left-wing stereotypes - proponents of free market economics do not like large corporations.
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Didn't we have this discussion before? I still think you mix the definitions of Dictatorship, Communism and Monopoly. Ruling of multinational corporations surely isn't democracy anymore, but is it Communism? Not exactly - they don't try to make everyone equal, do they?
 
cff said:
Ruling of multinational corporations surely isn't democracy anymore, but is it Communism? Not exactly - they don't try to make everyone equal, do they?
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Strictly speaking, neither does Communism.

The ESSR (teehee) represents a pretty significant fundamental threat to the sovereignty of its member states. It's a creeping federalism that, while not necessarily bad in essence, seems pretty inappropriate in this case. By and large, those who have voted in the referendums thus far most likely recognize the core problem with the whole affair, which is not that the constitution in question reads like a VCR manual, or that some set of pages therein is objectionable, but rather that they themselves are unwilling to set themselves on a course to becoming "Europeans" instead of "French" and "Dutch."

I'm an American instead of an Ohioan (Ohio-un?) for basically the same reason. It's okay for us because most of our states were formed on the fly, and those that weren't and objected were burned to the ground when they made a fuss.

What's worse, the folks hawking this thing are primarily motivated by their desire to become a counterbalance to American power abroad, and regardless of whether voters think the world needs one or not they're certainly offended that anyone would suggest they sentence their national identity and sovereignty to a slow dissolution in the persuit of it.

It's not a good idea. Everyone should be able to find value and pride in what they are now, with their own history and identity, not in what they could theoretically become as a component of some European mega-state. And it seems they do.
 
cff said:
Didn't we have this discussion before? I still think you mix the definitions of Dictatorship, Communism and Monopoly. Ruling of multinational corporations surely isn't democracy anymore, but is it Communism? Not exactly - they don't try to make everyone equal, do they?
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Yeah, we did, and that's why my post was so short ;). And you're still missing the point - it's entirely futile to talk about communism trying to make people equal, because you can only force equality onto people - and that, by definition, presumes that there will be no equality (because somebody has to be more equal than the rest). So in practice communism means simply a dictatorship that tries (usually with very limited success) to extend a state monopoly over every aspect of human life.

And yes, of course corporations would like everyone to be equal - can you imagine how much money the average corporation would save on marketing if everyone had the same needs? This is why medical corporations are always in favour of public healthcare programs - they would much rather have the government force people to buy their products than rely on the people to decide for themselves.
 
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