Escapist Article on Star Citizen
- Thread starter Sylvester
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Oggy
Rear Admiral
Do you know Quarto, that's the best write up I have seen.
Especially considering that Chris is unknown territory. I think you raised several excellent points. What is expected of Chris as he raised substantially more than his initial expectations? Do people like DS want him to hand it back? bearing in mind some of it is for "ship futures" (as in a ship that people get on release).
If it was anyone else but Chris, I'd be twitching a bit, but his reputation for delivering advanced and complex games is enough for me. I pledged what I felt I could afford, and knew the risk of pledging (that it might not come off). and as C Reid says, on the one hand people bemoan the "string pullers" at big publishing houses for their tables, deadlines and interference with the product, then when Chris pioneers something different, in which he isn't beholden to a layer of management or a strict timeline or even investors expecting a "return", in which he can develop something organically and they're still not happy. The parallels between Valve time and RSI time are there, and yet Valve hardly gets the attention Chris does, perhaps it would have been better to simply say "soon (TM)" like Valve, but even that upsets some of your support base.
Another point I picked up on; DS states that its public money, it isn't; not one Dollar, Pound, Yen or Rouble or anything else of the funding is "Public Money", its all private money! and he refers to investors, what? are we expecting a return or something? I thought I was throwing support behind a Chris Roberts game by paying upfront for a copy of it and a ship or two from the launch day?
Especially considering that Chris is unknown territory. I think you raised several excellent points. What is expected of Chris as he raised substantially more than his initial expectations? Do people like DS want him to hand it back? bearing in mind some of it is for "ship futures" (as in a ship that people get on release).
If it was anyone else but Chris, I'd be twitching a bit, but his reputation for delivering advanced and complex games is enough for me. I pledged what I felt I could afford, and knew the risk of pledging (that it might not come off). and as C Reid says, on the one hand people bemoan the "string pullers" at big publishing houses for their tables, deadlines and interference with the product, then when Chris pioneers something different, in which he isn't beholden to a layer of management or a strict timeline or even investors expecting a "return", in which he can develop something organically and they're still not happy. The parallels between Valve time and RSI time are there, and yet Valve hardly gets the attention Chris does, perhaps it would have been better to simply say "soon (TM)" like Valve, but even that upsets some of your support base.
Another point I picked up on; DS states that its public money, it isn't; not one Dollar, Pound, Yen or Rouble or anything else of the funding is "Public Money", its all private money! and he refers to investors, what? are we expecting a return or something? I thought I was throwing support behind a Chris Roberts game by paying upfront for a copy of it and a ship or two from the launch day?
cff
Kilk'dymga'qith laq Ik'vikvi
Technically if you join crowdfunding you are considered an investor. Whether you make money of it or only get some goodies in return. It is not considered to be a pre ordering service. At least by KS. I think it was never brought to court so far regarding this as obviously investor vs customer would lead to some legal differences.
Quarto
Unknown Enemy
That's weird. I mean, if it's true, it really doesn't sound like a smart move at all. He's really got nothing to gain from it, and a lot of goodwill to lose. "Developer delaying product and threatening journalists for talking about it" really isn't a good PR situation.
In the case of StarCitizen, it's a bit more complex than that. Remember, they only got a couple of million through KickStarter. The rest was through their own service, which is an entirely different situation. Presumably, their lawyers would have been very careful indeed to specify terms that work best for CIG and minimise the risk. But, if it ever does come to court (hopefully it won't - I mean, we're speculating here about possible consequences, but I don't think anyone here believes StarCitizen is in trouble), there could well be some major surprises, because consumer law generally tends to side with the consumer. That's out of my league, though, someone who actually knows anything about law would have to comment
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Silverforce
Rear Admiral
I dont know how it will turn out but this just escalated a lot.
Derek Smart has hired lawyers and they have a statement ready, he's gonna publish it soon.
Derek Smart has hired lawyers and they have a statement ready, he's gonna publish it soon.
Silverforce
Rear Admiral
boringnickname
Rear Admiral
I believe the Gardiner stories. I get a bad vibe when I see this woman. I have never met her personally though.
I think (emphasis) Chris has married a real dragon and she is dragging him down at every opportunity.
I know it's not a PC thing to say, hopefully I won't get banned.
I think (emphasis) Chris has married a real dragon and she is dragging him down at every opportunity.
I know it's not a PC thing to say, hopefully I won't get banned.
Whiplash
Rear Admiral
Never met the person, don't know them, yet believe gossip about them. Because, you know, I get bad vibes from looking at them.
You could make a career as a gaming journalist, by the looks of it.
I'm constantly flabbergasted by how easy it is to pronounce yourself judge and jury of the lives of complete strangers. The anonymity of the internet sure has robbed some people of a bit of common decency.
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boringnickname
Rear Admiral
Never said otherwise. It's just a gut feeling based on the "vibe" I get from her. I get the feeling as if Chris is completely under her spell.
I also found this to be an alarm-bell:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/art...k-Star-Citizen-and-the-State-of-the-Company.2
It has been my experience that whenever the "is it because xyz is a woman" phrase comes up, the person in question is indeed a ... (and not just because she's a woman).
Anyway, let's leave it at that before it gets really uncomfortable.
L.I.F.
Vice Admiral
Fun thing. Liz pretended that her "sources" showed their "company ID card". She even showed what it looked like on CR himself when she got told that the company doesn't issue those. Then, well, our favourite @Bandit LOAF posted this:
https://twitter.com/banditloaf/status/650689330264936448/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc^tfw
One more nail into the credibility of this "journalist".
https://twitter.com/banditloaf/status/650689330264936448/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc^tfw
One more nail into the credibility of this "journalist".
ChrisReid
Super Soaker Collector / Administrator
Ehh, please don't say anything escalated because Derek Smart amped up his rhetoric. That's his entire shtick. He's been threatening legal action on anything and everybody for twenty years.
I've met Sandi several times. She's always been perfectly pleasant.
Dundradal
Frog Blast the Vent Core!
I don't understand the desire to go after his wife. Where does all this sinister plot crap come from? I get a vibe that she's working hard with her husband on his dream. I don't see how that immediately makes her out to be some awful person. She seems quite nice and everything I've been told about her (from someone who literally sits right next to her all the time) is that she's a good person. But, what does this matter save to deflect from the piss poor hit job that this article was?
Derek Smart is just a bitter asshat who needs to yell loud things to get noticed and let the internet remember that someone named Derek Smart exists. And this is coming from someone who doesn't give a shit about this stuff. From just a brief engagement in this it's clear that he's jealous that people will give Chris money and his projects end up bigger laughingstocks than Transverse. The "writer", I won't say journalist since the second article in the series called the first an "Op-Ed" which is not the same as a proper journalistic article, is just puffing the Smart line for clicks.
What's insane to me is that this has spread...while searching for info on legal action I came across this article on Forbes: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonev...hris-roberts-insatiable-ambition-is-to-blame/
It has some updates on the bottom linking to various followups since.
As for the legal side, they are threatening because of what the article said: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonev...-the-escapist-demands-apology-and-retraction/
Derek Smart is just a bitter asshat who needs to yell loud things to get noticed and let the internet remember that someone named Derek Smart exists. And this is coming from someone who doesn't give a shit about this stuff. From just a brief engagement in this it's clear that he's jealous that people will give Chris money and his projects end up bigger laughingstocks than Transverse. The "writer", I won't say journalist since the second article in the series called the first an "Op-Ed" which is not the same as a proper journalistic article, is just puffing the Smart line for clicks.
What's insane to me is that this has spread...while searching for info on legal action I came across this article on Forbes: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonev...hris-roberts-insatiable-ambition-is-to-blame/
It has some updates on the bottom linking to various followups since.
As for the legal side, they are threatening because of what the article said: http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonev...-the-escapist-demands-apology-and-retraction/
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
I would like to stand up for Sandi. From a ‘job’ perspective, she is unquestionably the most passionate person in the company, Chris and myself included. I could certainly see how she might come off as a little alien in videos (beautiful woman instead of awkward nerd, for one!) but Star Citizen would not be here without her.
She’s also a good person, in so far as I am qualified so to judge the goodness of a person. We have become good friends over the past three years, and she’s been there for me through any number of personal crises. This is a woman who would give away her furniture to devs who needed something to sleep on, who went off and searched for apartments for Ali and I when we were moving… nothing in that Escapist article matches reality. And the only time I’ve ever seen her truly upset was when we weren’t delivering something to the backers. She really, really cares.
She’s also a good person, in so far as I am qualified so to judge the goodness of a person. We have become good friends over the past three years, and she’s been there for me through any number of personal crises. This is a woman who would give away her furniture to devs who needed something to sleep on, who went off and searched for apartments for Ali and I when we were moving… nothing in that Escapist article matches reality. And the only time I’ve ever seen her truly upset was when we weren’t delivering something to the backers. She really, really cares.
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
To be clear, no one is demanding their sources (... which are apparently anonymous glassdoor reviews...) The Demand Letter is in response to specific, libelous claims (racism, illegal HR practices) which we weren't asked to comment on before the article came out.
Wedge009
Rogue Leader
Whew, what a mess. Glad I don't waste my time following this nonsense (referring to some of the links people have posted, not this thread specifically or the people posting in it). Excessive on the personal attacks, negligible on any factual statements.
Thanks, LOAF, for your testimony as a colleague. Biased or not, your statement certainly has more credence than the anonymous barbs that have been flung around in the media.
Also, good to know I seem to be in alignment with the general consensus here: yes, there is valid concern at the extended development schedule - but then what CR-led project hasn't experienced this? But this concern is separate from the vitriol that the Escapist has published.
Also thanks to those who have had actual experience in the game development industry who have taken the time to write about their experiences/opinions on the subject.
Thanks, LOAF, for your testimony as a colleague. Biased or not, your statement certainly has more credence than the anonymous barbs that have been flung around in the media.
Also, good to know I seem to be in alignment with the general consensus here: yes, there is valid concern at the extended development schedule - but then what CR-led project hasn't experienced this? But this concern is separate from the vitriol that the Escapist has published.
Also thanks to those who have had actual experience in the game development industry who have taken the time to write about their experiences/opinions on the subject.
PopsiclePete
Mission programmer
Obviously, any man not "under a spell" about his wife has a pretty weak marriage. This is to be expected.
Now you can have doubts about Chris Roberts being able to actually deliver on his grand vision, you can choose to believe that the production is troubled, I don't care. But those sexist claims about Sandi makes my blood boils. Why ? I bet if she was a ugly pig no-one would target her. For thousand of years women have been victims of jealousy and suspicion. She's in a power position ? Surely she must have used some trick, spells or sex to get into that position ! No way a good looking woman could get into a high position within a company on her own merits !
Wake up, you've travelled in time. Welcome to the future, former Salem resident. Witch hunt is now out of fashion.
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![Raptor[K]](https://www.wcnews.com/chatzone/data/avatars/m/0/752.jpg?1421878545){kind=avatar}
Considering that Derek Smart has been trolling the Freespace/Freespace2 community for years. I wouldn't even bother listening to what he has to say. I'm honestly not fussed with Star Citizen taking more time etc. I've been involved with a project of similar scope previously and it takes years to get these things delivered. The way that Chris has broken the game up into modules which will come together into an overall project makes perfect sense and is really the only way to manage this. It also allows the game to undergo major improvement as funding/technology comes along. When we were making Vegastrike we first got the Starsystem engine working (Arena Commander), we then worked on Star System Linking (persistent universe.), We then added Multiplayer and trade. Each component links to the others but is really it's own set of challenges/issues. The biggest mistake we made was not having tools for level design/ship design. It's a much harder job to playtest/develop art content when you're editing most things by hand using notepad. Taking Cryengine and getting the Cryengine tools waws definitely the correct decision. Actual code isn't the hardest part of game development, it's art asset and gameplay development that's worse. CIG has shown they can do both, it's just a matter of time now until the game is completed.
Silverforce
Rear Admiral
@Darkmage
I don't mind that SC take many more years to complete. That was my point earlier, CIG should just say "ETA: When its done" and this is a non-issue for everyone. There would be zero expectations of some sort of deadline from ANYONE. While @ChrisReid has a point that crowdfunding has an element of risk involved, it also by human nature, when people are given an ETA they do expect fulfillment, at least many do that's why we even have this as an issue.
If you guys heard of Cyberpunk 2077, from the Witcher developers, it was started in 2012, still many more years left to be finished. Great games, very ambitious ones, take a LONG time to be done and its quite normal.
I don't mind that SC take many more years to complete. That was my point earlier, CIG should just say "ETA: When its done" and this is a non-issue for everyone. There would be zero expectations of some sort of deadline from ANYONE. While @ChrisReid has a point that crowdfunding has an element of risk involved, it also by human nature, when people are given an ETA they do expect fulfillment, at least many do that's why we even have this as an issue.
If you guys heard of Cyberpunk 2077, from the Witcher developers, it was started in 2012, still many more years left to be finished. Great games, very ambitious ones, take a LONG time to be done and its quite normal.
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