pygmypiranha
Vice Admiral
I think he could, both men were geniuses when it came to strategy and war, but they were completely insane when it came to the killing of innocent people to satisfy a overall goal.
Could Tolwyn Be Compaired to Hitler?
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Ladiesman^
Spaceman
Yeah....and I think it was kind of intended....
Although Tolywn was better at strategy than Hitler was....he was a moron. He could have taken all of Europe...instead he said "Hey, let's start with Russia and send troops there with no winter clothing!"
Tolywn got busted by a bunch of meddling kids.
Also, Hitler just had a lust for power. Tolywn just wanted to help the Confederation.
Although Tolywn was better at strategy than Hitler was....he was a moron. He could have taken all of Europe...instead he said "Hey, let's start with Russia and send troops there with no winter clothing!"
Tolywn got busted by a bunch of meddling kids.
Also, Hitler just had a lust for power. Tolywn just wanted to help the Confederation.
Short answer: NO.
Long answer: Hitler was both a moron and completely insane. His reasons for doing everything were under the standpoint of gaining power for himself and german people.
Tolwyn was not a moron or crazy. His reason's for his actions were to aid the human race (as he understood what he was doing, of course he was wrong in his execution), so his motives were good but his actions were bad. Thus the two are different
Long answer: Hitler was both a moron and completely insane. His reasons for doing everything were under the standpoint of gaining power for himself and german people.
Tolwyn was not a moron or crazy. His reason's for his actions were to aid the human race (as he understood what he was doing, of course he was wrong in his execution), so his motives were good but his actions were bad. Thus the two are different
t.c.cgi
Vice Admiral
Hitler commited genocide, outright genocide. Tolwin DID kill of a world or two of innocents with bioweapons, but he didn't take it to a confed-wide level in an attempt to wipe out a race of people. Or did we suddenly forget that little detail of WW2?
As for military, Hitler couldn't find his own ass in that term. The first assault rifle even, the StG44, proved invaluable, but Hitler didn't like the idea, and so it went slow. Albeit a single gun couldn't win a war, the fact that he consistantly undermined his own military just because he was a nitwit eventualy cost them to lose. In contrast Tolwin let his people do their job the way they saw fit AFAIK, without meddling with things just because he didn't like the idea.
The only real comparison is they both had a secret service (Hitler's SS, Black Lance), both had lots of 'scary' projects in the works, and both lost in the end.
As for military, Hitler couldn't find his own ass in that term. The first assault rifle even, the StG44, proved invaluable, but Hitler didn't like the idea, and so it went slow. Albeit a single gun couldn't win a war, the fact that he consistantly undermined his own military just because he was a nitwit eventualy cost them to lose. In contrast Tolwin let his people do their job the way they saw fit AFAIK, without meddling with things just because he didn't like the idea.
The only real comparison is they both had a secret service (Hitler's SS, Black Lance), both had lots of 'scary' projects in the works, and both lost in the end.
LeHah
212 Squadron - "The Old Man's Eyes And Ears"
Hitler had a basic idea of strategy and logistics, but wasn't a Patton by any means. The one thing he was good at was bullshitting people into believing something, he was one hell of a good public speaker.
Tolwyn on the other hand proved himself to be "the best fighting admiral in the fleet". He sucked with PR (Remember the confrontation between him and Jukaga at the treaty signing in Fleet Action?) and also cried when he sacrificed soldiers and cadets. Hell, he cried for the people of Telamon.
The way I see the biggest distinction is that Hitler blamed several groups of people (Jews, Mentally Retarded, etc) for "genetic pollution" and keeping him from making an Aryan race. Tolwyn, on the other hand, seemed to be geared more toward the survival of Man as a whole; yes, he murdered lots of people by attempting to start a war with the Border Worlds, but he was going after a poltical enemy, not a religious or social enemy.
Also, I think it's really unfair to compare anyone to Hitler, there's just no one really like him. Except in Wolfenstein... in the Mech suit...
Tolwyn on the other hand proved himself to be "the best fighting admiral in the fleet". He sucked with PR (Remember the confrontation between him and Jukaga at the treaty signing in Fleet Action?) and also cried when he sacrificed soldiers and cadets. Hell, he cried for the people of Telamon.
The way I see the biggest distinction is that Hitler blamed several groups of people (Jews, Mentally Retarded, etc) for "genetic pollution" and keeping him from making an Aryan race. Tolwyn, on the other hand, seemed to be geared more toward the survival of Man as a whole; yes, he murdered lots of people by attempting to start a war with the Border Worlds, but he was going after a poltical enemy, not a religious or social enemy.
Also, I think it's really unfair to compare anyone to Hitler, there's just no one really like him. Except in Wolfenstein... in the Mech suit...
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
I think the important thing to point out here is that 'compare' is not the same as 'say something is equal to'. You're all *comparing* Tolwyn and Hitler right now.
Bandit LOAF
Long Live the Confederation!
You're still comparing them! One is something and the other isn't!
Lelapinmechant
Spaceman
Does anyone think, and maybe I'm alone in this, that it's in slightly poor taste to compare fictional sci-fi computer game characters to Hitler? I mean, what with the whole creepiness factor of Hitler and the whole campiness factor of game characters, doesn't it kind of add a little too much campiness to Hitler and a little too much creepiness to Tolwyn?
Ladiesman^
Spaceman
No...
I should point out here that Tolwyn did intend to take his "enhancement" program not just to a Confed wide level, but to a humanity wide level. Telamon was a test run for sowing the Gen-Select on other worlds, and removing the "chaff" (or "genetic pollution" to borrow LeHah's term) from the human population. Or did we suddenly forget that little detail of WC4? Luckily he was stopped in time.
As for the rest, I tend to agree with LOAF. Tolwyn can be compared with Hitler, but there are differances as well as simillarities.
Best, Raptor
t.c.cgi
Vice Admiral
Actualy I did forget about that. I study WW2 more now than I study WC (and I know little of WW2, so I know almost nothing of WC).
That changes my whole perspective on this topic. The topic says to compare, so we're doing that. Is he "like" Hitler, in the fact that he's warped, and generaly something you'd not think about day-to-day? Yes. Is he Hitler incarnate? No.
There, that covers the topic AND the poll question!
TC
SubCrid
This raises the question of whether Godwin's Law can be invoked when a thread is initially about Hitler...
Is Tolwyn like Hitler?
I suppose it depends on what areas you want to know if he's like Hitler.
Hitler had a pretty good idea of where he wanted to go right from the start. The 1930 version of Hitler would have been pretty pleased with the state of things ten years later.
The WC2 Tolwyn would probably have been horrified with what Tolwyn was attempting at the beginning of WC4.
Hitler was interested in genetic purity in the German people, but that was just a small part of his agenda. He also wanted power for himself, power for Germany, and "living space" at the expense of the neighboring countries.
Tolwyn attempted to "improve" the genetics of humanity, but there's no evidence that I'm aware of that he was after personal power. Also, had he been interested in "living space", he would have caused incidents with the led to conflict with the Kilrathi (and occupation of their worlds after decimating the populace).
I would say that the two are not at all alike.
I suppose it depends on what areas you want to know if he's like Hitler.
Hitler had a pretty good idea of where he wanted to go right from the start. The 1930 version of Hitler would have been pretty pleased with the state of things ten years later.
The WC2 Tolwyn would probably have been horrified with what Tolwyn was attempting at the beginning of WC4.
Hitler was interested in genetic purity in the German people, but that was just a small part of his agenda. He also wanted power for himself, power for Germany, and "living space" at the expense of the neighboring countries.
Tolwyn attempted to "improve" the genetics of humanity, but there's no evidence that I'm aware of that he was after personal power. Also, had he been interested in "living space", he would have caused incidents with the led to conflict with the Kilrathi (and occupation of their worlds after decimating the populace).
I would say that the two are not at all alike.
Tolwyn had some comparisons to Hitler.
The fact that he believed in Racial Supremacy and used Genetic Engineering to enhance the human species. The Gen-Select Bioweapon would simply be Hitler's Wet-Dream.
There are differences which are already mentioned.
Hitler was not a good tactician. Tolwyn was a BRILLIANT tactician. Awesome track record that man lead.
The problem with Tolwyn is that he only had respect for his own people; warriors. He had respect for them; everyone else was expendable.
People he didn't like got sent on suicide missions. Blair was simply lucky to keep coming back.
As for Tolwyn not using the Gen-Select Bioweapon for Genocidal Purposes, he would have; he just didn't get a chance to.
Remember Tolwyn on the Axius Station saying "We have tested it, We will USE IT!!!" Remember that quote?
He just didn't get a chance.
-Concordia
"That's all Leftenant!"
The fact that he believed in Racial Supremacy and used Genetic Engineering to enhance the human species. The Gen-Select Bioweapon would simply be Hitler's Wet-Dream.
There are differences which are already mentioned.
Hitler was not a good tactician. Tolwyn was a BRILLIANT tactician. Awesome track record that man lead.
The problem with Tolwyn is that he only had respect for his own people; warriors. He had respect for them; everyone else was expendable.
People he didn't like got sent on suicide missions. Blair was simply lucky to keep coming back.
As for Tolwyn not using the Gen-Select Bioweapon for Genocidal Purposes, he would have; he just didn't get a chance to.
Remember Tolwyn on the Axius Station saying "We have tested it, We will USE IT!!!" Remember that quote?
He just didn't get a chance.
-Concordia
"That's all Leftenant!"
Lelapinmechant
Spaceman
Originally posted by KrisV
Tolwyn, traffic wardens, bulletin board moderators, they are all routinely compared to Hitler. I guess you haven't been online long enough to notice.
Yea verilly, I've been online for a long time, but this is the first board to which I've ever subscribed. I guess it's normal, then. Still weirds me out a little, though. I mean, I know it sounds too uptight or too serious or something, but I've always kind of taken Hitler... seriously.
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