Corvettes: Paradigm vs Venture?

Hmmm...
Privateer is in the same timeline as WC3.
The Paradigm as a light destroyer? Perhaps. It has more firepower then the Caernaven Class frigate. But much more shorter and shilds/hull are very weak against a Ralarrad or even the Caernaven.
6 Turrets and a few Single Guns... more firepower then the Kamrani, larger (when I was right with the 130m+/-). Its sad that the Stats from Privateer are much differend against that from WC3.

The Kamrani has 500cm.
The Kamekh has in WC2 300cm, in Priv 70cm.
If we now make the Paradigm from 80cm x 7 = 560cm = half the armor of the Southampton.

Can someone build a Paradigm for Saga? ;D
 
So folks :D

FekLeyrTarg convert the Paradigm for me in Saga. Don't take a look at the textures or trusters. It will be changed again. Turrets also net done yet on the model (don't want to resize them again and again)
Its here 160m l ; 116m w ; 40m h.
screen0227.jpg

screen0226.jpg

Here close to a Venture.

Armament will be only in turrets (you can't give the capship guns in Saga) So I want to install: 2 Dual-Tachyonturrets, 4 Dual-Laserturrets, 2 IFF Launcher (1 up/down)

After the pic I posted with the Drayman docked in New Constantinople I think the size is good. A little pocket destroyer with a small size. Good as a patrol-capship.
 
Hmm ok. I make another size:
screen0228.jpg

200m l , 146m w and 50m h. I think the tiny turrets we see on the screen from red baron are very little (1 people or so) The prologue turrets on the Venture are 15m l/w
 
You can kind of fake a capship having forward guns by just making single-part turrets with firepoints facing forwards and defining "fire down normals" in the table entry for the turret. AI doesn't know what to do at close range but it should fire off a couple of shots as it closes in from a bit of a distance.
 
Using those forward center turrets on the Gilgamesh and the official render that LOAF posted, I'd say that puts the Paradigm at least as big as the Gilgamesh. Still seems on the small side in the newer picture.
 
ChrisReid said:
Using those forward center turrets on the Gilgamesh and the official render that LOAF posted, I'd say that puts the Paradigm at least as big as the Gilgamesh. Still seems on the small side in the newer picture.
Click to expand...

Should the turrets be the same size, though? The Paradigm's armament is all fighter-scale weapons while the Gilgamesh carries capital-scale weapons.
 
Lorien said:
Should the turrets be the same size, though? The Paradigm's armament is all fighter-scale weapons while the Gilgamesh carries capital-scale weapons.
Click to expand...

Why wouldn't they be similar size and scale? They're both Destroyers.

The Priv manual is only telling us about three different guns that it carries (5 total: 2 mesons, 2 tachyons and an IPC). You can count at least sixteen double-barrel turrets in the game model's render - it doesn't just outgun the Venture, it appears to pack more firepower than the Gilgamesh too.
 
Yeah I don't think there's any reason to assume the Paradigm has to be tiny. Remember that one of the few descriptions of her that we have is that she's "one of the Confederation's most advanced warships."

Also: they're supposed to be platforms for Stilettos in Privateer, so they need to be big enough to carry those.
 
ChrisReid said:
Why wouldn't they be similar size and scale? They're both Destroyers.

The Priv manual is only telling us about three different guns that it carries (5 total: 2 mesons, 2 tachyons and an IPC). You can count at least sixteen double-barrel turrets in the game model's render - it doesn't just outgun the Venture, it appears to pack more firepower than the Gilgamesh too.
Click to expand...

They not outgunned just a Gilgamesh. They outgunned every ship beyond a Vesuvius. When I make the model with the Gilgamesh turrets in that size the destroyer would be around 800m long. Look at the pic in New Constantinople. Its a little big bigger than the Drayman. And that ship is 96m. 8 times bigger?

I still think that this turrets are smaller. I have some on the Spartan Class. They 2m x 2m. The ones from the Venture are 7m x 7m, on the gilgamesh 12 x 12. Anti Mater turrets are 22m x 22. The big turrets on the Gettysburg are 35m x 35m. Scoobys big tripple guns in the Prophecy timeline are over 50m x 50m.
 
Hard to say... I think it should be a bit bigger, especially since it is supposed to have a fighter hangar, and not a too small one.
You could try to scale it to the size of the Ralaxath and see what happens.
 
ChrisReid said:
Why wouldn't they be similar size and scale? They're both Destroyers.

The Priv manual is only telling us about three different guns that it carries (5 total: 2 mesons, 2 tachyons and an IPC). You can count at least sixteen double-barrel turrets in the game model's render - it doesn't just outgun the Venture, it appears to pack more firepower than the Gilgamesh too.
Click to expand...

I'm not saying that the Paradigm has to be smaller than the Gilgamesh, just that the turrets on destroyers aren't going to necessarily be the same size. Like comparing the 5" turrets on a WW2 destroyer to the Bofors AA mounts. They're both turrets on destroyers but are of a vastly different size.

Do we know what the rest of the Paradigm's guns are? It would be nice if we could point to an AMG or flak gun on the Paradigm to get a better basis for comparison.
 
Red Baron said:
Also designwise, the Privateer Kamekh is pretty close to its WC2 counterpart. The Paradigm on the other hand looks much bigger with its 16 turrets.
paradigm-multiview-jpg.3493
Click to expand...

The REAL issue confusing matters here, as this demonstrates, is that the in-game performance of the Paradigm doesn't even remotely match up to the model. By model and size, it should definitely be a (smallish) destroyer. In terms of real performance, though, it's no stronger than the Kamekh, and in general it's extraordinarily weak compared to capital ships in any other Wing Commander game. (But then, larger-than-fighter craft in Privateer in general were problematic due to the way they set up the engine, but that's getting off onto a tangent.)

By rights, in any other game the Paradigm would be a monster of a ship with lots of flak and heavy guns and this wouldn't really be a discussion. As it is, what we see during play in Privateer seems desperately anorexic for a destroyer.
 
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I've read in the news that is is supposed to be my model. Actually, it's not my model. I've only converted it, changed the UVMap and retextured it based on the original Textures and Kevin Caccamo's Textures. :)
 
FekLeyrTarg said:
I've read in the news that is is supposed to be my model. Actually, it's not my model. I've only converted it, changed the UVMap and retextured it based on the original Textures and Kevin Caccamo's Textures. :)
Click to expand...
Yes, it was the Wing Commander Universe (Privateer Gold) ship. I need to change the turrets again (need round one because of the curves on the model) but here it is:
screen0235.jpg

What I told before its the smaller point-defence turrets.
wcpedia_image3.jpg


But I still think its to big... Drayman is not 1/2 of the ship...
But anyway. I make some new turrets with Laser, Mass Driver and Tachyon. The Weapons of the Privateer one are : 2 Meson, 2 Tachyon and 1 Ionic Pulse and 3 Singlelaser Turrets and 3 Single Mass Driver Turrets: I now make 8 turrets each side (as in the pic) and 3 Laser, 3 Mass Driver and 2 Tachyon Turrets are mounted. So afterall I give it more firepower then on the Kamekh (there are only 5 Turrets). But... they firerate will be not as fast then the bigger one on the other capitalships and les dmg. So its an fighterdestroyer (what its designed off, patrolling in the Gemini-Sector) but not a counterpart to the Southampton-class. Fighterwings (I used then this darkgrey-parts as its entry) will be 4 Stilleto and 1 shuttle. One fighter less then on the Southampton class.
The size to the Kamekh:
paradig.jpg

So its much bigger and more armament on the ship as the Kamekh. Destroyer vs. Corvette ;) After the work I put the turrets from the Kamekh to the Paradigm.
 
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A few things to keep in mind...
1. In the gameplay, Paradigms are pretty easy - but they're no easier than a WC1 Ralathi or Exeter, which are unquestionably full-size destroyers.
2. That shot from Priv allows us to compare the Paradigm in size to... another ship whose size we don't know. Who says that Draymen in Priv are comparable in any way to WC1 Draymen?
3. Even so, given that the Paradigm in the shot is significantly further back from the camera than the Drayman, and still appears to be bigger, it would not be unreasonable to assume the Paradigm is at least twice the size of a Drayman. Which, of course, still doesn't tell us anything because of #2 above.

Now, I personally favour the idea of the Paradigm being a lighter ship, more comparable to an upgraded Kamekh than a Gilgamesh. This certainly helps to resolve the issue of its manual stats, which don't make it seem at all as powerful as any other destroyer out there. But there is no real evidence that this is the way it should be.
 
I think we have hit on ANOTHER problem.

We need to do something tot try and compare all the human cargo haulers... The two Drayman, the Free Trader, that Armada transport (did we ever get a class name??), the Clarkson (is that a class name or a specific one?)
 
gavinfoxx said:
I think we have hit on ANOTHER problem.

We need to do something tot try and compare all the human cargo haulers... The two Drayman, the Free Trader, that Armada transport (did we ever get a class name??), the Clarkson (is that a class name or a specific one?)
Click to expand...

No problem :)
screen0238.jpg

left to right:
Drayman with Fuel Pod = Dilligent
Drayman with Cargo Pod
Free Trader
Prowler (Militäry version of the Free Trader with 2 Laser, 3 IFF Missilelauncher and a Ferret in the Backbay)
Clydesdale
Spartan Marine Shuttle
Artemis Courier
Shuttle

I have the Drayman MK2 also from the WC Universe files. Just need to convert it. The Belleau Wood (Armada) is building from Scooby Doo or in this pic from Cybot78 into the Marine Transporter Pelileu Class
t_pelileu_3-jpg.5147

Kevin help me convert it into Saga with the textures from the Exeter and the other ships from Enigma 2666. But this Transporter is much larger then the other ones: 550m around and carry 2000 Marines. 24 Spartan-class shuttles are also on that ship.

Also I've got from Cybot the Evansville Transporter from Black Lance /Confederation
heavyarmedtransports01.jpg

Here we have different sizes: from a small transport to larger support ships. Sizes from 250m to 450-550m
 
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That doesn't put the Privateer Drayman in the lineup though! So I guess that's THREE Drayman? And the Galaxy, and the WC3 and on transports (which presumably existed at WC2 and WC1 timeline, but weren't shown?)? Are there any other cargo/merchant ships in the lore (other than the Privateer 2 ones)?
 
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