Capital Ship Combat in WC Games

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Dragonslayer

Spaceman
I'm new to the WIng Commander universe. I ve only played WC1, SM1, SM2, Prophecy and Secret Ops. Now from what I've seen the Wing Commander Universe is almost devoid of captial ship engagements. The games are almost totally dominated by fighter actions. In Secret Ops there is one mission where the Cerberus can move in close to an enemy capship and engage it but the nephilim capship is always destroyed by the bombers. It seems a little unrealistic to me. I dont know if it is like that in the other games but beyond launching capship missiles it seems as if capships are basically big mother ships for the fighters. Can some one give me some info on capship combat in other games and capship weaponry. Also why are the Nephilim capships basically armed with CSMs, maser turrets, and IR missile turrets. Shouldnt there be some variety especially among the different ship classes
 
I think it was originally planned for the Nephilim capital ships to have plasma weapons, but that wasn't implemented in the final version of the game.

As for capital ship combat, you do see quite a bit of it in WC2 and to a lesser extent in WC3. As WC is mainly based on modern carrier warfare though, fighter and bomber assaults are much more common that capital ship slugging matches.

Best, Raptor
 
Thanks for the info. Now that I think about it the way capship combat is depicted does seem correct in view of roberts' own contention that the WC games are an attempy to recreat the fast carrier aspect of WW2. Id like to see the capship combat from WC@ and the add ons. IS there anyway to get a version of them that would work on a current computer without major hassle?
 
I never thought about that Raptor (WC simulating air combat today). Still, there is one WC3 mission that has a Kilrathi Carrier against the Victory where I like to take out the fighter cover and sit back and watch the fireworks (for some reason, neither capship seems to be able to target their CSM very well) :)

There are also a few times in WC3 where the destroyers and cruisers get into some capship vs capship bouts, but if you don't do anything, the kilrathi usually end up on the winning side of it.

WC2 capship fights where kindof like 2 blind Hillbillies running at each other and shooting off their "shotgun-like" AMG and praying for hits :)


C-ya
 
Id really would have like to see one of the Plunketts in SO go into a broadside engagement with enemy capships. That would have made any of the hohum repetitive missions of SO incredibly cool. Since capship conflict never occurs in WC1 or the SM addons can there be any really estimation of what it would be like
 
Originally posted by Dragonslayer
I'm new to the WIng Commander universe. I ve only played WC1, SM1, SM2, Prophecy and Secret Ops. Now from what I've seen the Wing Commander Universe is almost void of captial ship engagements. The games are almost totally dominated by fighter actions.
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Hence the name Wing Commander. :) There are some capship engagements in WC2, WC3, and WC4, though.

Originally posted by Dragonslayer
In Secret Ops there is one mission where the Cerberus can move in close to an enemy capship and engage it but the Nephilim capship is always destroyed by the bombers. It seems a little unrealistic to me.
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Why risk the whole ship if you can deploy bombers first?

Originally posted by Dragonslayer
I dont know if it is like that in the other games but beyond launching capship missiles it seems as if capships are basically big mother ships for the fighters.
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That's what carriers do. ;) Since only cruisers and carriers hold fighters, the player doesn't have many chances to see other capship on capship fights.

Originally posted by Dragonslayer
Can some one give me some info on capship combat in other games and capship weaponry.
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Try the CIC Ships Database.

Originally posted by Dragonslayer
Also why are the Nephilim capships basically armed with CSMs, maser turrets, and IR missile turrets. Shouldn't there be some variety especially among the different ship classes?
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I don't know. Possibly that's all they (the development team) had time to put in. It's a similar situation with the Confed ships - the Midway was supposed to have ion cannons for capship engagements.

Originally posted by Raptor
I think it was originally planned for the Nephilim capital ships to have plasma weapons, but that wasn't implemented in the final version of the game.
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Krakens don't count as having plasma weapons? ;-) It's true, though, the Tiamat dreadnought was supposed to have a plasma weapon as well.

Originally posted by Dragonslayer
I'd like to see the capship combat from WC@ and the add ons. Is there anyway to get a version of them that would work on a current computer without major hassle?
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I assume you meant WC2. WC2 has no problems working in DOS or Win9x on a modern computer, AFAIK. The only 'problem' would be that cutscenes play to fast, but you can always pause the dialogue if you're a slow reader.

Originally posted by Viper61
...there is one WC3 mission that has a Kilrathi Carrier against the Victory where I like to take out the fighter cover and sit back and watch the fireworks (for some reason, neither capship seems to be able to target their CSM very well).
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I don't recall CSMs being used between carriers in WC3... but it has been a long time since I've played it.

Originally posted by Viper61
There are also a few times in WC3 where the destroyers and cruisers get into some capship vs capship bouts, but if you don't do anything, the Kilrathi usually end up on the winning side of it.
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I disagree. The Sheffield and the Coventry have excellent gunnery crews - this is most evident in the final Sol mission (losing endgame of WC3) where they take out several fighters and capships... until the dreadnought comes along. :eek:

Originally posted by Dragonslayer
Since capship conflict never occurs in WC1 or the SM addons can there be any really estimation of what it would be like?
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Again, they are enough capship engagements in the WCs you haven't played. Try to find them - you won't be disappointed. ;-)
 
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Originally posted by Dragonslayer
Id really would have like to see one of the Plunketts in SO go into a broadside engagement with enemy capships. That would have made any of the hohum repetitive missions of SO incredibly cool. (...)
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Well, at least in a SOPS cutscene you see a Plunkett destroying a Hydra...

Wedge: It has been some time for me too, since I played WC3 but I think I remember having a terran cruiser firiing a CSM at a Kilrathi cruiser. And of course, you have to save the victory from CSM.
 
Originally posted by Viper61
WC2 capship fights where kindof like 2 blind Hillbillies running at each other and shooting off their "shotgun-like" AMG and praying for hits :)
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Yep, I thought it was very cool watching those battles and dodging those AMG bolts, and the battles often ended with the Concordia firing the mother-of-all-shotguns to blast everything in sight.
 
WC3 3DO has a lot of capship-on-capship action... it pits the Victory and her battle group directly against furball destroyers, corvettes and cruisers a bunch.
 
I could say something right now, but I won't.

Instead I'd like to say that Wing Commander is very good at what it does. I never sat up in the middle of a dogfight and thought, "Why aren't the capships doing anything?".

Actually in the WC4 cutscenes, you see the Intrepid, Vesuivious and the St. Helens going at it for quite a bit. And I remember seeing the Vesuvious pulling some maneuvers during the actual mission that just didn't seem possible for a ship that size.
 
Originally posted by Wildshot
And I remember seeing the Vesuvious pulling some maneuvers during the actual mission that just didn't seem possible for a ship that size.
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That´s why Tolwyn said "she would have put the fear of God on the Kilrathi". The Vesuvius-class vessels were indeed very maneuverable, that´s one of their top qualities.
 
Emmhh....
That was to prevent, the *Go inside the hangar, sit there and shoot the capship from the inside* tactic
 
Hi Ghost! How are you doing?

That´s the unofficial line. It´s not that easy, but I can still blast the Vesuvius from inside.
 
Originally posted by Wildshot
Actually in the WC4 cutscenes, you see the Intrepid, Vesuivious and the St. Helens going at it for quite a bit. And I remember seeing the Vesuvious pulling some maneuvers during the actual mission that just didn't seem possible for a ship that size.
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I thought the Vesuvius *couldn't* maneuver ingame...
 
Maybe its the drugs and the alcohol and the deppression talking , but I remember on the mission *before* the flashpak mission seeing the Vesuvious doing some crazy maneuvers for a ship of its size.
 
Originally posted by TC
I thought the Vesuvius *couldn't* maneuver ingame...
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No, Wildshot is right... the Vesuvius did manoeuvre in the game, and it did so extremely well. Of course, its manoeuvring was disabled in the flashpak mission, for obvious reasons.
 
I've found that in capship battles in WC3 if you play on rookie the Confed capship will always defeat the Kilrathi capship without serious hassle. Amp up the difficulty level and the Confed capships take more damage, but still win. I don't think I've ever seen the Victory's escorts lose a match except on the mission with the dreadnought :(
 
I saw one of the Victory's escorts go down once in a capship duel... I can't remember what mission it was, but the difficulty level wasn't particularly high. I guess it's just a matter of the player doing badly enough :p.
 
I've noticed this more in the X-Wing series than in the Wing Commander series, but it seems when capships want to maneuver and turn in a different direction, they always do it suddently and sharply. Never the way you would think such a larg ship would be able to move. Weird.
 
Originally posted by Quarto

No, Wildshot is right... the Vesuvius did manoeuvre in the game, and it did so extremely well. Of course, its manoeuvring was disabled in the flashpak mission, for obvious reasons.
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No! I remember that it was maneuring like crazy and that I crushed in it lots of times!Well that was in "Crazy" difficulty I think but it did maneuer (damn this word)!

I also didnt excpect from a ship that size to maneuer that well!;)
 
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