Bloodmoon

I just kind of felt at a loss when it was all over. You saved all these people, you killed Dagoth Ur, you confronted Almalexia and Vivec. Sotha Sil we got to see strung up in a very macabe fashion, and I just wish it wasn't all over. It seemed like the Nerevarine was very important in the story and yet to the people, hardly important at all. And I blame that on the Tribunal.

I agree with Indoril that it would've been nice if an option in the game was to actually side with Dagoth Ur. I related to him and his situation more than I did the Tribunal gods. Dagoth Ur was confused and tainted right off due to his being left alone with Kragnec's tools. He didn't even seem ambitious to become immortal. He seemed so hurt by Nerevar and wanted to reconciliate his relationship with him. And he probably could have if you had the option to take his side and clash with the Tribunal gods instead. As evil as Dagoth Ur supposedly was, my heart went out to him more than the Tribunal. Dagoth Ur was at least honest despite being deranged. He couldn't totally help what happened to him.

The Tribunal gods were ambitious and didn't care that Nerevar died. They saw it as a good thing that he was out of the way because he would be the only one to truly know how they became gods and make them feel ashamed for it. One thing I have never done yet in the game is complete Morrowind and its two expansion sets, and then go back and KILL Vivec. With the other two gone, he naturally seems to have to go. And not step down either. I have always felt he had become too complacent and not helped people like he used to and let the Ordinators and the Temple run everything in his name. He seemed too self-righteous and not guilty about anything he had done.

And with his attitude towards your character in the game, he does acknowledge that you are the Nerevarine, but also seems to dismiss your importance. The only thing he amounts you to is the person who must kill Dagoth Ur just so he doesn't have to. Punk!
 
Shipgate said:
As far as I understand it, there was only one time that Nerevar was truly reincarnated. And that is in your character. Those ghosts in the cave were people who were very certain that they were the one. Several of them even say when you talk to them that they thought they were the one but know now that they were not. Which is why they all give you that cool stuff because they know you are and they want to give you their blessing. I even remember some telling you why they thought they fit the prophecy, but they were mistaken.
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Not exactly. They did all fail at becoming the Nerevarine, but they did not fail the Moon-and-Star test. They all died along the way, never reaching the cavern. So, strictly speaking, each of them could have been Nerevarine. That's actually one of the reasons why I think that scene is so great - just when you might think "Ah, well, my coming was foretold by the prophecy, so I'm bound to win", there's all these other failed versions of you, all telling you that you're not as big as you think - that your victory is not certain. You can still fail, and the world won't even notice it, much like it didn't notice the others.

Shipgate said:
The Tribunal gods were ambitious and didn't care that Nerevar died. They saw it as a good thing that he was out of the way because he would be the only one to truly know how they became gods and make them feel ashamed for it. He seemed too self-righteous and not guilty about anything he had done.

And with his attitude towards your character in the game, he does acknowledge that you are the Nerevarine, but also seems to dismiss your importance. The only thing he amounts you to is the person who must kill Dagoth Ur just so he doesn't have to. Punk!
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I don't think you can say Vivec is self-righteous. I mean, you gotta be fair - he's a god. What you interpret as arrogance, self-righteousness and lack of guilt is more like aloofness. As he explains, he's above such - indeed, any - feelings. In becoming a god, he's lost as much as he gained, because he's no longer human (err, dunmer). With no real feelings left, he simply goes on doing what a god does - taking care of everything. And if he doesn't want to go kill Dagoth Ur, it's not because he's afraid of dying - it's more because he's aware of how low his chances are, and he knows that if he's gone, there will be nothing left at all to stop Dagoth Ur - regardless of whether the Nerevarine shows up or not. Similarly, if Vivec seems pleased that Nerevar died, it's not because he really was happy when it happened. He's looking at it from the perspective of what he's become and what he's achieved. And it's difficult to disagree with him, given that nobody (except perhaps Vivec himself) knows what would have happened had they not become gods

(I still haven't gotten very far in Tribunal, so I don't know what Almalexia and Sotha Sil are like, but from what I hear, it sounds as though Vivec is the only one of the three who's really managed to properly adjust to being a god; it seems that however de-humanised the Tribunal's become, there's still something left in them from the people that they once were, and it's incompatible with their godliness)
 
Ahh, I can't wait then until you also finish Tribunal so I can talk to you about that as well. Nevertheless you make some good points, and I think I'm gonna go back and read some more of the literature in the game and reevaluate some of my positions on the matter.

But you still gotta wonder about when Vivec says he may die soon and possibly by your hand.
 
Shipgate said:
But you still gotta wonder about when Vivec says he may die soon and possibly by your hand.
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I think that is pretty obvious why...

SPOILER
















After Almalexia and Sotha Sil are dead...the Tribunal is no more, and there are no need of those ''Gods''. so the ''logical'' thing to do is to make him dissapear :D
Boy, i felt pretty good killing Vivec
 
Ghost said:
I think that is pretty obvious why...
After Almalexia and Sotha Sil are dead...the Tribunal is no more, and there are no need of those ''Gods''. so the ''logical'' thing to do is to make him dissapear :D
Boy, i felt pretty good killing Vivec
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Well, Almalexia went crazy, and murdered Sotha Sil. If you hadn't found her, she'd have gone on to kill Vivec as well. When killing her in self-defense, I felt perfectly justified in telling the screen 'Take THIS for alimony, bitch!' while swinging at her with Trueflame. :D

We never got a chance to talk to Sotha Sil, though he seemed kinda harmless given his isolationistic tendencies and his apparent lack of interest as far as ruling anyone went. Vivec's tried to be benign and lets his subordinates run things, though he should have reigned in the Ordinators... but apparently was busy doing other things. But, in comparison to Alma, he was a real nice guy.

Heck, he almost gives you carte blanche to kill him, at least his speech seems to imply after you kill Dagoth Ur and destroy the Heart. His comment about Alma's death following that event suggests it. ("Death comes to all mortals, and we are all mortal now.")

I figured that he'd die of old age sometime, so let him live with a diminished Temple which was under my control. Besides, now I hae my choice of Trueflame or Hopesfire to do him in with. Or, for real irony, I could use Sunder...
 
Ghost said:
I killed him using the Hammer-i-don-t-remember-the-name.
He is pansy, he only uses his fists/
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If you need to wear Wraithguard to use it, it's Sunder, the hammer that you use to kill the Heart. If you don't have to wear Wraithguard, and joined the Temple, then it's Velothi's Judgement which is simiarly mighty. If you are a member of the Imperial Cult or do Daedric Tomb Raiding on your own spare time, it's probably Skull-Crusher, which is also quite impressive.

Either way, his difficulty is mostly in the HP that he's got - he has thousands of HP and fatigue points. You need a lot of strength, good armor, some good spells, a lot of potions, and a decent weapon to take him. But, if you really want to be known as the guy who killed the Tribunal Temple either directly or indirectly (you contributed to Sotha Sil's death by getting Alma the Mazed Band), then you're free to do it.
 
Greetings, friend. Hail!

Well since the only thing I haven't done in the game after beating the original and both expansion sets is kill Vivec, I just better go and do that. But what I was wondering was if once you do it at that point, will it still say the thread of prophecy is severed with this characters death? I should think it wouldn't.

What made me stop using the Skull Crusher by the way was the blunt weapon you get in Bloodmoon that's all snowy. I forgot the name of it though. Vivec really isn't that hard to kill. Though he was obviously harder to kill than Dagoth Ur.

I can't wait for an Elder Scrolls 4 one day.

They need to program the people in the game next time to occasionally be sitting down. I always wondered why in taverns and guilds you'd never see anybody sitting down. It's like that one little detail would've gone a long way with me. And you never saw kids in the game. It would've been interesting to see little Dunmer kids running around Balmora during the day. It funny though that after playing a game so much, because Morrowind really is a super long game if you decide to do all the faction and misc. quets, but after so long you start thinking of tons of little things that would've made the game so much cooler. It is still one of the best and most surprisingly interesting games I've played in a long time. Still haven't played it quite as much as Wing Commander though. :D
 
Shipgate said:
Well since the only thing I haven't done in the game after beating the original and both expansion sets is kill Vivec, I just better go and do that. But what I was wondering was if once you do it at that point, will it still say the thread of prophecy is severed with this characters death? I should think it wouldn't.

What made me stop using the Skull Crusher by the way was the blunt weapon you get in Bloodmoon that's all snowy. I forgot the name of it though. Vivec really isn't that hard to kill. Though he was obviously harder to kill than Dagoth Ur.

I can't wait for an Elder Scrolls 4 one day.

They need to program the people in the game next time to occasionally be sitting down. I always wondered why in taverns and guilds you'd never see anybody sitting down. It's like that one little detail would've gone a long way with me. And you never saw kids in the game. It would've been interesting to see little Dunmer kids running around Balmora during the day. It funny though that after playing a game so much, because Morrowind really is a super long game if you decide to do all the faction and misc. quets, but after so long you start thinking of tons of little things that would've made the game so much cooler. It is still one of the best and most surprisingly interesting games I've played in a long time. Still haven't played it quite as much as Wing Commander though. :D
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Well, there's someone who actually made a plugin to get people to sit down in taverns and places where chairs exist, so that's there. I'm pretty sure you could make NPC Children as well, but nobody's done it yet, and then add them in via a plugin as well. It's amazing what you can do with Morrowind's plugins, some patience, and 3DSMax. :D

As far as killing Vivec goes - do it after the game ends, if only because it makes getting Wraithguard working SO much easier. Besides, by that point, if you kill him, it doesn't matter if the thread of prophecy is broken or not.

Incidentally, which hammer are you talking about? Or was that a mace?
 
Yeah, it was a mace. And I heard that the Morrowind Construction Set is really hard to work with. That like you have to have the skills of a computer programmer to figure it out.
 
Shipgate said:
Yeah, it was a mace. And I heard that the Morrowind Construction Set is really hard to work with. That like you have to have the skills of a computer programmer to figure it out.
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I'll have to do some checking around in my inventory, but do you mean the mace you get if you complete the Skaal Village quests?

As far as the Construction Set, the worst part is placing things and scripting, but the 'Scripting for Dummies' book you can get off Morrowind Planet in the Mod section is quite helpful in that respect. But you really should see some of the things people have hooked into the game. :D
 
I didn't mess with it too much. But it was really hard for me to begin really doing anything with it. However, no, it wasn't like the RPG Maker 2000. LOL
 
Indoril Nerevar said:
Is the construction set kind of like RPGMaker2000? I've messed with that before and it was hell on earth...
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If you'e actually played the game and installed the Elder Scrolls Construction Set which came with it, you'd know the answer - and it's a lot more complicated than RPGMaker tends to be. For one, you can do just about anything with it, editing NPCs, objects, and rooms. However, placing doors can be a bit of a pain... and scripting's worse. However, there are some good texts on the subject, via PDF.
 
I'm really curious about the Dwemer. So apparently they disappeard after Kragrenac used the tools on Lorkan's heart right? Then shouldn't anyone who would've used the tools on the heart disappear like the Dwemer did?

Then why didn't Vivec, Almalexia, and Sotha Sil disappear when they used to heart to become immortal?

One other thing, is that guy who lives in the corpusarium, is he a Dwemer? Cause he talks to you about the "disappearance of the dwarves." I figured Dwemer were Dwarves but only Imperials and such referred to them as Dwarves. But that spider legs guy responds to being called a dwarven guy. And he doesn't even look much like all those Dwemer statues you see outside the ruins. What am I missing here?
 
Shipgate said:
I'm really curious about the Dwemer. So apparently they disappeard after Kragrenac used the tools on Lorkan's heart right? Then shouldn't anyone who would've used the tools on the heart disappear like the Dwemer did?

Then why didn't Vivec, Almalexia, and Sotha Sil disappear when they used to heart to become immortal?

One other thing, is that guy who lives in the corpusarium, is he a Dwemer? Cause he talks to you about the "disappearance of the dwarves." I figured Dwemer were Dwarves but only Imperials and such referred to them as Dwarves. But that spider legs guy responds to being called a dwarven guy. And he doesn't even look much like all those Dwemer statues you see outside the ruins. What am I missing here?
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If you've played the game and read the relevant texts 'Hanging Gardens', 'The Egg of Time', and 'Divine Metaphysics' along with Vivec's papers on the issue, then you'd know the answer. Short form: the Dwarves created the Heart of Llorkhan to try and create a god through sorcery. However, almost all of them were bound to the Heart in the process of the spell, and Vivec interrupted it with his invasion and his use of Sunder and Keening. The backlash involved killed all the Dwemer/dwarves bound into the spell, which effectively eliminated the Dwemer through Vvardenfell. Only Yagrum Bagarn remains, because he was infected by Corprus and was not involved in the spell's creation.. and even then, he's only half there as it is. The corprus disease is what has distorted his body so horribly.

Edit: It should also be noted that the Tribunal gods learned of the rituals that Dagoth Ur used to tap into the Heart's power, thus making themselves immortal and godlike themselves. Dagoth is right in how they betrayed Nerevar, because they used the rituals that he did.. and the same ones which Nerevar wanted stopped, IIRC. I'll have to reread the relevant texts later.
 
Interesting. Thanks for that. I'll go back and read those books then. Man, such an extensive plot and so much to learn. That's what made this game such a hit, no? I'm playing it a second time through just to make sure I got the plot right and I'm really enjoying it.
 
Shipgate said:
One other thing, is that guy who lives in the corpusarium, is he a Dwemer? Cause he talks to you about the "disappearance of the dwarves." I figured Dwemer were Dwarves but only Imperials and such referred to them as Dwarves. But that spider legs guy responds to being called a dwarven guy. And he doesn't even look much like all those Dwemer statues you see outside the ruins. What am I missing here?
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Yes, he is. And the reason he doesn't look like all those statues is because, much like all the other races, the Dwemer were not a bunch of identical clones :p.

And yes, the Dwemer and dwarves are one and the same. I'm not quite sure why they were called dwarves - the name 'Dwemer' would seem to indicate that they were an Elvish race. Still, given how short the Bosmer are, it's possible that the Dwemer were even shorter ;).
 
Has anyone played the other games such as Arena or Daggerfall? Morrowind was the only one I've ever played. But I hear those other ones are pretty big too for being older games. And I was playing Arena for awhile because of that free download on that website. I thought it was really cool you could actually be a Dunmer from Morrowind and the land actually looked like it does in Elder Scrolls 3.
 
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