Battlefield: Wing commander - would it work?

B

Bremmon

Spaceman
I used to love playing the Battle of Midway on Battlefield 1942 and couldn't help but think that the next Wing Commander game should be an outer space take on that with 1-2 carriers, 2 destroyers, frigates, fighters and bombers. For the game designer types out there would this be technically achievable? Anyone think it would be fun for the next Wing Commander game - a flight engine style "Battlefield" game? I had heard that the last Star Wars Battlefront game actually had fighters and capital ships.

The map itself could be a sector with various jump points acting as the flags with a Confed task force starting on one side of the map and a Kilrathi task force on the other. Forces would have to deploy and the points would be awarded based on jump points held.

I'd set in in the Wing Commander 2 era that the capital ships must be hit with heavy bombers or engage in direct capship to capship action. Players thus could take the flak guns, AMGs on the capital ships or take the bombers / fighters that spawn on the flight deck over time. While waiting for new bombers / fighters they could take the flak guns. Could even allow for boarding actions and marines, maybe even allow for some space station and boarding parties with marine transports.

To add some variation I would also add some cool radar jamming and AWACs that most of the fun in the game is trying to find each other / prevent the other side from knowing just where and when the enemy will come.

Players would thus actually have to orgainize CAPs and bombing runs, escort each other. The team with the best team work will probably win.

Players could spawn, or alternatively would eject and have to be rescued (not sure if that would be fun having to sit and wait).

I believe this would be similar to a Microsoft game, Allegence, which was quite fun but minus the resource gathering.

I suppose for variation you could have small maps with destroyers and light carriers facing off, maybe a boarding party mission where two marine forces fight for a station (16 player maps) or you can play some of the great large battles on 64 player maps with multiple carriers.

Terrain can include asteroids, planetary orbits, space stations, nebulars and black holes.
 
I wanted to try something similar with the Source engine, but my Hammer editor crapped out before I learned how to fully use it, so I didn't recruit anybody because all I had was the story and the ability to root from the sidelines.:D

Star Wars Battlefront had spacecraft bound to planetary maps. Battlefront 2, however, had space combat and a better flight model, though it took some getting used to, and it usually had two equivalent carrier battlegroups and the ability to board the other "carrier".

A Battlefield style is possible, particularly with SWB 2, all you need is a good mod team, which is the hardest part.
 
Shaggy said:
and it usually had two equivalent carrier battlegroups and the ability to board the other "carrier".
Click to expand...

I don't ever remembering seeing two frigates escorting a Mon Calamari into battle...but I ALWAYS remember seeing them escorting the ISD's.

I don't think they were ever truly "Equal" carrier groups.
 
I believe origin / EA toyed with a WC themed shooter at one point, and IIRC a number from that team actually went on to create Battlefield 1942...
 
Space point!

I believe origin / EA toyed with a WC themed shooter at one point, and IIRC a number from that team actually went on to create Battlefield 1942...
Click to expand...

I actually worked on this project in passing. It was being developed by some of the then-UO team, the Origin guys who made the move to California after the studio was shut down, back in 2004 or 2005.

It was going to be a Wing Commander-branded Privateer-based game called 'Wing Commander: Mercenaries'. It would have used a licensed Unreal engine to do a Battlefield-style game in the WC setting... you'd be a mercenary and you'd fight others, earn money to upgrade your ships, play online with other people, etc. The had some neat marketing plans for it, online animated episodelets that would introduce the WC universe to people and such.

I don't exactly know what happened after I was used as an advisor, other than that UO maintenance/development was transferred to Mythic and the lead designer for Mercenaries went off to some other company (his choice). The pitch line was something like 'Battlefield meets Grand Theft Auto in Space' - that's how they sold it to corporate...
 
Huh, I have to say again: Interesting!

And I think an Ego-shooter in the WC-Universe (Player as a space marine) could be quite cool. There are lots of nice scenarios on different planets, we know some weapons, ships, and so on. Imagine for example defending the Mopok's world (in the Rostov system IIRC) against the Kilrathi, or imagine helping the Firekkans, or capturing a Kilrathi capship...

And now imagine using the Crysis engine or the onne from Call of Duty 4....

.....I'm dreaming again....
 
While one of the current shooter engines like Crysis, Call of Duty4 or UT4 would be nice I don't know if it would be possible to have the spacebattle parts in it. I think I remeber someone doing a spacebattle mod thing with one of the older UT engines. Maybe it would also be possible with one of the games mentioned above.
Else there would also be the latest game of the battlefield series. Maybe not as good looking as the others but you allready got tanks and airplains and stuff.
For a spacebattle you would just have to remove most of the earth/floor/buttom whatever of the level and just leave some ships. Also it has these Titan game mode that could be utilised in some kind of way.
Have some other caps in the level. If you manage to capture them the will shoot torpedos at the carrier.
I think the best or better said the engine with most of the stuff you would need would be Battlefield 2142. I don't know how modable it is. If there aren't any tools then you woulndn't come very far.
 
I wouldn't care much if there aren't space battles in the game. We have them in all the WC games and fan mods. A pure ego-shooter in the WC universe would still be great IMHO.
 
I allways thought it would be cool to have the battle of earth from the view of the mariens that are going into the Kilrathi carriers and blow them up from the inside.
Ok its a suicide mission but a cool one ^_^

If you want just ground battles I agree that any other shooter engine could be used. Most of them have some kind of vehicles today. Its just how do you want to setup the gameplay.
Simple "kill everything that moves" or do you want to have some kind of objectives you have to reach or should it be a teambased tatical shooter?
Crysis team mode, I think it was called powerstruggle, sounds nice to me. I mostly prefer the more teambased modes like in the Battlefield series.

Well we can speculate much if there aren't any people who want to do this kind of thing.
Reminds me...wasn't there someone who allready build a level for HL2?
 
And I think an Ego-shooter in the WC-Universe (Player as a space marine) could be quite cool. There are lots of nice scenarios on different planets, we know some weapons, ships, and so on. Imagine for example defending the Mopok's world (in the Rostov system IIRC) against the Kilrathi, or imagine helping the Firekkans, or capturing a Kilrathi capship...
Click to expand...

I believe Mercenaries was supposed to be multi-tiered... you had fights in the ground and then you hopped in your fighter and everything blended together. I seem to recall there was some third role, but I have absolutely no memory of what it was.

The problem with doing a WC shooter is that (especially today) there just aren't that many people invested in the Wing Commander universe. C&C Renegade ran into the same thing - as awesome as their concept was, setting their shooter in an existing 'game' universe limited the number of people who were interested in the story rather than expanding it. From a marketing perspective, it's basically taking the Wing Commander audience and cutting away everyone who only plays because of how the game works...

That said, I did just recently learn that some significant work was done on a Wing Commander FPS around 1996-97 -- at Origin in Austin. I'm trying to track down more information on this project, but I've learned that they had a running client with 3D Kilrathi warriors...
 
FPS be damned, what's the point of a Battlefield Wing Commander if not played from the cockpit? I think it's a sensational idea.
 
A scenario at Reepletha (forgot how its written) would be interesting. An official WC FPS might had a chance when WC3 or 4 where released and the interest or knowledge about the universe was most present in the mind of non WC fans. But as Loaf pointed out with Renegade because one part is running well it dosn't mean that it sells well when put into another genre.

If we want a WCFPS it will be the modders who most likely do it. Still if there is any material left from the original tryout it would be interesting to see...or even get our hands on it.
As for the cockpitstuff. Someone has to give the soldiers some covering fire or take out some fortified positions...so lets have some fighters too ^_^
 
I think AD was doing that Half Life map and that there was some problem with it which was going to force him to recreate everything... but I'm sure he'll be along shortly to say.
 
Wow, I can't believe how close we were to getting that!!! And it's amazing how receptive Origin was...

To me I'd like to see it be basically focused on the idea of the carrier task force duals foremost. To me the exciting part of this is that you'd actually have the chance to be the "Wing Commander" responsible for CAPs, bomber runs, protecting the carrier all in one mission!! Not to mention the chance to jump in a Gilgamesh destroyer and defend the carrier from an incoming bomber raid or a Kamech. I used to think that a "CArrier Commander" game like Harpoon would work for Wing commander, but I think that it would just come off as another game of Harpoon given that you'd either be limited to 2D or forced to play it like a quick RTS in 3D.

In that Battlefront 2 can you actually control the cap ships? Maybe we can just mod that?

While I would like the feel of Battlefield 1942 with the carriers spawning fighters, the carrier flak cannons, AMG turrets and torpedoes, some ideas from Battlefield 2 now that I think about:

- "Wing Commander" position - The carrier navigator could also serve as Wing commander (as the carrier is slow, driving it wouldn't be particularly fun). As such he can then access a map with radar, etc when not driving allowing him to place NAV points, send orders to squadrons, etc. Wing Commander can also decide what type of ship ratios spawn (24 fighers total but ability to pick light/medium/heavy/bomber).
- "Squadron Leaders" / "Squadrons" - Like squads in Battlefield 2 you could have Squads of fighters assigned that can work together, share radar info, etc. Maybe the AWAC player is the squadron leader with a map?
- "Refueling / Rearmed" = Fighters / bombers could actually have limited armament requiring them to return to the carrier to repair and rearm. In some cases they can be sent a "refueling" or a "rearming" craft to keep in the game by the "Wing Commander"
- Fighter losses - With each fighter lost, so too is a point, requiring you to want to conserve your ships.

So for a 64 player game (32 each side):

I foresee a level like "Hells Kitchen" with 8 control points, 1 the Confed jump point, one the Kilrathi jump point, one a nebula, two asteroid fields, 4 open nav points. Each fleet starts at their jump point and includes 1 carrier, 1 crusier, 1 destroyer. Each fighter has 6 light fighters, 6 medium, 6 heavy and 6 bombers which can be modified by the "Wing Commander"but keep it to 24 fighters which respawn on the carrier when destroyed.

That leaves at least 8 players for the capital ship poistions and the Wing Commander. Each cap ship has a driver position (with torpedo launch), AMG turrets, flak turret positions (x 4 on crusier and carrier).

Carriers after destroyed will "respawn" at the Confed jump point every 4 minutes, destroyers every 2 minutes.

What do you think?
 
How about this for a typical game:

Carriers both start at the jump points. The Kirathi and Confed both gear up and set their "fighter spawn" to 24 light and medium fighters to go find each other. The game first starts with duals along the front lines where the Confed captures 1 control point, the Kilrathi capture 2. Confed must hold their one so they order their destroyer forward to hold the one.

The Kilrathi feel confident so they spawn some bomber pilots with some medium fighter escort and send them all the way to the Confed jump point. There they go after the carrier and end up taking out the crusier which sacrifices itself to protect the carrier while it runs off.

The Kirathi send everything they can after the carrier on the run which is spawning light fighters to stay in the game will racing to catch up with the destroyer.

The Confed destroyer in the meantime with its fighter escort goes down and proceeds to take the 2 Kilrathi control points now that their carrier and pilots are busy hunting down the Confed carrier.... just as it crosses an asteroid field and discovers the Kirathi carrier all alone!!

The Confed player quickly spawns bombers, followed by a Kilrathi crusier and destroyer and sends them on an End Run to take out the carrier hiding in the asteroid belt....
 
Bandit LOAF said:
I think AD was doing that Half Life map and that there was some problem with it which was going to force him to recreate everything... but I'm sure he'll be along shortly to say.
Click to expand...

Yeah, It had some scale issues, so I needed to start from scratch. But I built a good knowledge of how it works and stuff so I was kind of hoping to restart it someday. What I did do was promising though and I still know how to edit the titles and I've integrated WC sounds with it and stuff... But this time I need to plan the map out on paper a little better first.
 
Shaggy said:
I wanted to try something similar with the Source engine, but my Hammer editor crapped out before I learned how to fully use it, so I didn't recruit anybody because all I had was the story and the ability to root from the sidelines.:D
Click to expand...

If that was recent, theres probably a fix over at the developers wiki. The orange box update has a number of problems, but most of them are fixable or at worst you can work around them.
 
Wow, I can't believe how close we were to getting that!!! And it's amazing how receptive Origin was...
Click to expand...

This was actually post-Origin -- it was being done at EA in California.
 
Bremmon said:
So for a 64 player game (32 each side):

I foresee a level like "Hells Kitchen" with 8 control points, 1 the Confed jump point, one the Kilrathi jump point, one a nebula, two asteroid fields, 4 open nav points. Each fleet starts at their jump point and includes 1 carrier, 1 crusier, 1 destroyer. Each fighter has 6 light fighters, 6 medium, 6 heavy and 6 bombers which can be modified by the "Wing Commander"but keep it to 24 fighters which respawn on the carrier when destroyed.
Click to expand...

I think it would be better to limit the bombers a bit more making them more a strategic tool rather than having a whole bunch of bombers go in and blitz everything.
Having only three available bombers would work better for mission structure with only two players being non fighter players (one to control *all* capships possibly in a HW2 style and one wing commander with a similar control scheme). The rest of the fighters would be divided up amongs the twenty seven left over slots. There would be a set couple of minutes for the wing commander to assign how those 27 fighters are divided up but there is no respawning. Refueling at a carrier, yes, but each match should end in total defeat, rather than control points, though I guess that could be an optional mode. This would allow for a more dynamic game I think. It's more valuable to protect your few bombers needed to keep destroyers from getting shots off at your own capships and whatnot. plus that allows the Wing commander to divide the ships up into three groups if he wants with a bomber each and enough fighters for significant cover.
(if you don't agree play arena with a 16 player game of all bombers)

ALternately one of the bombers could be a special slot, and could be switched out for... er, special ships like a refueler so that fighters don't need to return to the carrier for ordinance and fuel, or a shuttle for marines to board enenmy ships, or a jamming ship or something like that.
 
Wow, those are great ideas!!

I suppose that would make the bomber/fighter battle more exciting, I just wonder if weak players though would be upset at having to wait until the end of the game to respawn, especially if a carrier battle takes up to thirty minutes. I suppose you could just respawn and take a flak cannon on the carrier, or would everyone be alright with getting to watch the action after dying?

With the limited bombers too, I think it would be spectacular to have it so that when they are going into "lock on mode" the tone from WC2 can be heard over the radio frequencies that the targetted capital ship knows a bomber is trying to launch a torp (just like in "End Run" with the Tarawa). Could be some thrilling game play there when the cap ships signals that it's about to take a torp unless the fighters come to it's aid.

Also from this, I suppose the Broadsword bombers also have three turret spots - that might be a good respawn option.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top