Didn't I just say that calling the Banshee an interceptor is very much missing the point? It's not an interceptor . It's a light fighter, that happens to be capable of taking on interception missions. Indeed, the fact that it carries HARM missiles is pretty good indication that it's capable of much more than that.Iceblade said:@Ijuin: These banshee interceptors are not likely to be used for long missions or be alone in a big fight or defensive engagement*scramble*--unless cirumstances force such a situation to arise.
Quarto said:My take is that there was like two dozen Banshees built altogether.
I understand your point of view. However, when trying to work out anything about BW ships, you have to consider the difference between WC4 the game, and WC4 the novel. One of them includes only fancy new ships (well, not necessarily new, but with better stats than their Confed counterparts), while the other includes only junk. Now, all things considered, the novel's depiction of BW fighters seems more realistic. So, as a general rule, I go by what the novel has to say, while simultaneously assuming that those fighters from the game are around, just not very numerous.Delance said:Considering how many Banshees we see on WC4, it should be way more than that.
Well, the "pre-WC1 but upgraded" story can be used for just about any ship, especially in the case of the Border Worlds. But it would be very boring for all BW ships to be like this. Plus, it would be pretty ridiculous - compare the stats of BW ships from WC4 with their Confed counterparts. So, while there's certainly no reason why the Banshee couldn't be a pre-WC1 ship, this is not the explanation that I go by for UE. In UE, it is a new ship built in the early 70s or even late 60s in the Border Worlds, out of imported parts. The ship is high-tech, and consequently (because of the limited resources of the organisation that built it) was built in much smaller numbers, with a very high cost per ship.Iceblade said:Hmmm, perhaps a few changes are in order. I frankly thought the banshee was a pre-WC1 old gizer of a craft that just hasn't been retired. Four sounds discent enough, eh?
I currently have six Rangers listed for the BW. Of these, three have been lost.BTW, how many of these Rangers are in actually use in the entire BWM navy. Is it five or is it some outrageous number like 12 or 18.
We do? How do we know this?Hmmm....would it be okay if I have like 2 or 3 banshees come over from the Dauntless--probably not, but frankly we already know that there were banshees on board the Dauntless at some point--probably six or seven total.
And how exactly do you know this?Ijuin said:The way I see it, the Banshee's story is very similar to the Avenger's. [...] The Vindicator seems to be the only BW ship of the WC4 era that was designed from scratch for frontline combat.
Well... looking at my previous posts, I think I unconsciously fused together two numbers - the total number of produced Banshees, and the total number of Banshees in service, circa 2681. While I said "two dozen Banshees produced", I was actually thinking of there being about this many Banshees in service in 2681 - which would in fact indicate that there must have been at least a few more Banshees made. Not knowing what kind of attrition rate they suffered during the BL crisis and afterwards, I guess I can't really say how many were made specifically. Could have been thirty, could have been fifty (which also means that Delance is probably right, and I'm underestimating the number of Banshees available in the BL crisis). Note, however, that this doesn't change the situation at the time of UE - the number of available Banshees is tiny.Iceblade said:They would probably build at least 1 every 2 months at the minimum which would be about 42 new banshees
I don't think you quite understand me - we're not talking about the number of Banshees created after WC4, we're talking about the grand total. Most of the losses were during WC4. Indeed, there was no big Kilrathi conflict prior to UE - just the usual raids, which have been going on for a decade. Not that this makes a difference - the point is, the BW does not have many Banshees left, and are not assigning them to escort carriers.Iceblade said:Considering the big Kilrathi conflict just 6 or 7 months prior to Operation: Clean Sweep would have greatly depeleted the number of craft altogether--epsecially in their lighter armored craft. Five banshees were the only banshees left on board the Relentless after this conflict (out of close to 10 banshees)--about 50 more banshees had been created after WC4, but many were lost in this conflict.
Yes, you could. There are dozens of different explanations we could make up. But you're missing the point, which is - I don't want to, because I'm happy with my current explanation .rampage3057 said:Well, you could always figure that the Banshee was just an older Confed craft that the Border Worlds got ahold of and modified enough until they came up with a satisfying general configuration.
Yep, I am aware of this. Although there was never any opportunity or reason to point this out in UE's fiction, I've always operated on the assumption that the BW tries to upgrade their ships any way they can (see UE's Banshee - its stats aren't quite like WC4 ), and the price they pay for it is the enormous maintenance costs. This is why the BW is increasingly desperate for new designs that can perform adequately against other ships circa 2681 without any upgrades - something that will be seen in UE2, if that ever happens.Also, you overlooked a real-world factor in stating that any ship that has tremendously high stats in the game must also be extremely high tech: maintenance and down-time. You can tune a mechanical device (be it racecar, airplane, cordless drill, or...starfighter) to operate at high performance, but for less time than if it was tuned normally.
Quarto said:I understand you like the Banshee and would like to use it - but if fan projects did not abide by reasonable restrictions (and these restrictions are reasonable - meaning, I do have reasons for them ), pretty soon we'd be drowning in Dragons and Flashpaks.
Well, you could always figure that the Banshee was just an older Confed craft
(thanks to this site for the transcript)Maverick: Look, Confed’s a much bigger machine than any of us can possibly imagine. That bastard Seether – and whoever he’s working with – can marshal incredible resources.
Hawk: Sure: mercenaries, pirates, Confed craft, our craft…
Panther: The unmarked ships.
Maverick: Yeah. All without the rest of Confed even knowing about it.
Panther: And, meanwhile, we come off looking like the bad guys.